Posted on 07/26/2005 4:28:07 AM PDT by voletti
It has been thirty years since I first set foot in London, and I can't help musing over the changes that have been wrought in those decades. You can no longer ask your taxi driver to take you past Downing Street, the men at the immigration counter peruse you much more intently (though they are still as polite), and there is a definite chill in the air which has nothing to do with London's famously gloomy skies and everything to do with how one looks. Until they are reassured that I am a (Hindu) Indian and not a (Muslim) Pakistani, there is a wariness everywhere.
'Paki' has long been a term of abuse in Britain (though not in the United States). It goes back at least twenty years to the days of the infamous race riots. But where it was once mere tinged with contempt there is now more than a little loathing and hatred too.
"Don't be fooled by the apparent normalcy," was the grim warning delivered by a senior figure in the police services, "London has changed after the blasts, and so has Europe." And it all has to do with the apparent role of the 'Pakistanis' in the London blasts. The quotation marks are deliberate since the criminals who carried out the explosions were not really Pakistanis, but British citizens of Pakistani origin. That is a significant difference.
In the past, so the wry quip goes, they were born in Pakistan and would come to Britain for higher studies; today they are born in the United Kingdom but make the trip to Pakistan to finish off their education. My interlocutor may have been speaking tongue in cheek, but I cannot imagine such a comment being made three decades ago.
(Excerpt) Read more at us.rediff.com ...
One thing Indians HATE is being called a Paki, that's about the only thing you can say that guaranteed WILL p*** them off. SEcondly, there are tons of Indian Christians (30 million at the last count) in India and also in the UK -- there was/is a Labour MP called Keith Vaz.
I would say that time has come and gone. Even if there are Muslims who are against the terrorists, they're such tremendous cowards that they're unwilling to try to stop them.
I did not know that there were that many Christians in India. That's good to know.
I do know that the Hindus practice racism. It's a corrupt country in which socialism is practiced, but in an effort to promote the powerful over the weak.
Younger siblings in adulthood sponge off the older siblings.
Wives are responsible for dowry for the rest of their lives. As are their families.
I am not convinced that widows are no longer tossed onto flames when the husbands die.
One of many countries in which child slavery can call home
I am not overwhelmingly convinced that India is in the right and am not persuaded that we have to live by the old zero sum frames between those two countries.
I would keep both countries at arms' length at this point. Cordial, but alert.
Welcome to the party, pals!
Now they're learning to look at the world through a set of 911 glasses. It tends to tinge ones gaze and decision making somewhat, doesn't it?
Better late than never I guess.
UK Pakistanis ping.
WEll keep in mind 30 million christians in a country of one billion is like a tiny blip on the radar, as a percentage of the country its probably the same % of militant athiests in this country. I know that most Indians frown on Indians who are christian. Take Bobby Jindal, most Indians i know seem to like the guy and root for him until they find out hes Catholic then they get uneasy.
Money quote:
"The old illusion that the terrorists are simply a misguided minority is fast giving way to the new conventional wisdom, namely that the terrorists are simply the most visible face of militant Islam"
Hmmm,how exactly do you know that "most" Indians frown upon their Christian counterparts???Cool deduction that you make on the basis of what expatriates say about Bobby Jindal.Ive lived with Hindus all my life & never have ever felt uneasy & so have countless million Christians.Sure Hindu extremists have targetted Christians but they don't even have the support of 10% of all Hindus.
If your point is anywhere near true,can you explain why many (Hindu) landlords in cities like Mumbai,Delhi & Bangalore always feel more comfortable with Christian tenants & employees than even Hindus of the same caste???Why Christians(& Sikhs) have the largest representation among military & bureaucratic positions relative to their total population.
Well the fact that i'm Indian and a Christian perhaps?
Why don't you go to India & live there for a few years & see how it really is???
Me2-one who happens to live in India.
Well i've never lived in India i was born here, but i have visited India and i know for a fact that my relatives dissapprove and it irritates the crap out of my parents. Its the reason our relationship is so strained. Most of my hindu's i know here in America also frown on me and give me greif for it, so when i say that Indian Christians get grief from their non Christian counterparts perhaps its not all of them but in my personal expereince i get it a lot here and abroad.
It is a know fact these days that the net influence of Hindu extremist groups is higher in the US & UK than anywhere else(including India) & seek to promote a holier than thou image as far as their "faith" & "values" go.
Well thats probably why from my perspective i feel like i get grief from my non christian counterparts and you living in India don't. To be fair though i get more grief from people older than me for it, but Indians my age give me grief because i vote republican and the only other Indian republican i know of is my cousin who only votes that way because he doesnt want his taxes raised(used to be a flaming lib, still is but likes his tax cut).
Keep in mind that your accusations have nothing to do with Hinduism as a religion and philosophy, and much to do with the fact that India was invaded and controlled by Muslims for hundreds of years, and then the British.
Just because many Christians eschew the rules in the Bible and have abortions, practice illicit sex, and there are churches calling themselves "Christian" that celebrate homosexual unions doesn't mean Christianity is wrong. It means some people don't understand or practice the religion they supposedly profess.
Your accusations are blanket statements and cannot be proven. To say the Hindus practice racism is more than silly. The very essence of Hinduism is that each individual is an eternal soul, and the temporary body is like a vehicle, so in that sense no matter what race someone is, inside everyone is completely equal; everyone is spiritually equal, the bodily differences are temporary and superficial.
Naturally all Hindus are not educated in the deeper meaning of their own religion, but many are. Just like all Christians don't necessarily practice or understand their own religion.
One reason Hindus may frown on Christians is the fact that many Christians eat meat. Meat eating is certainly not a tenet of Christianity; in fact, many of the early Christians and many Christian saints were vegetarians, and in the early days of Christianity there were so many prohibitions on eating meat that less than half the days in the year was it even allowed.
As you well know, eating meat is soundly condemned in classic Hinduism.
Hindus are very decent people. Great cooks too.
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