Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 13

Various News Outlets | 8/7/05

[RGVTx]

Fox News showed an interview within the last half hour with the tourist who found the tape on the beach. They also had an interview with him last night.

[Pepper777]

" Beth says Joran admitted having sexual relations with Natalee in the back seat of Deepak's car. Wants to know if the Kalpoes were participants or observers.""

I wasn't surprised to hear Beth say those things. Remember early on, it was even reported in the Aruban press that all 3 had sex with Natalee. I'm sure any sex, was definately against her will. I feel so sorry for Beth. She's clearly been given the run around by the powers that be, in Aruba.

[alice_in_bubbaland]

Ok everyone straighten up!! :o)

Oh dear I've been reading so much on this case it get confusing at times (about 5 different websites) I think it was

http://www.thepoliticalteen.net/

Scroll down 7 stories, just checked, it's still there.

[Parzival]

> I'm sure any sex, was definately against her will.

Why? It's not like 18 year old girls never engage in sex out of their own will and even initiate it.

Take a random sample of 18 year old American girls and majority of them will not be virgins. So how can you say that "any sex" was "definately against her will"? Does not make any sense.

[TAquinas]

The latest transcript Of Greta I find is the August 4 one. May be it hasn't been posted yet?

[justche]

your source for a majority of randomly sampled american teens not being virgins?

[TAquinas]

Thanks. Found it with three useless comments.

"Another piece of hair on duct tape has been found in Aruba. An American tourist was walking the Aruban coastline when he found a piece of duct tape with seaweed on it. A closer look showed strands of hair were also on the duct tape. The hair sample is now being analyzed."

http://www.thepoliticalteen.net/

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I'm sure any sex, was definately against her will.

Source for this? Beth Holloway, perhaps?

[Parzival]

I said 18 year olds. Not teens in general.

That said, I don't have a study up my sleeve. Sorry, can't help you there. But I have definitely heard references to such statistics and it is consistent with my own experiences.

In either case, a guy having sex with an 18 year old girl is not ipso facto sexual abuse as seems to be implied here by some.

Maybe she was abused, maybe she wasn't. Saying that she "definitely" was is unsubstantiated.

[RGVTx]

So what? Even non-virgins can have morals that requires a longer courtship before having sex. A casual meeting and even a shot of booze isn't quite enough for most women to jump in the hay with a stranger.

[Parzival]

[i]
"Another piece of hair on duct tape has been found in Aruba. An American tourist was walking the Aruban coastline when he found a piece of duct tape with seaweed on it. A closer look showed strands of hair were also on the duct tape. The hair sample is now being analyzed."

http://www.thepoliticalteen.net/[/i]

Well, if it is true about surfers and duct tape it probably means nothing. Any word about where along the coastlike the duct tape was found? The first sample was found on the oposite side from all the other events. If this one is found in the HI/Marriott/Raquet Club/landfill vincinity it would be a much more hopeful piece of evidence.

[justche]

But I have definitely heard references to such statistics and it is consistent with my own experiences.

oh, well in that case....

[TAquinas]

"Take a random sample of 18 year old American girls and majority of them will not be virgins. So how can you say that "any sex" was "definately against her will"? Does not make any sense."

The mistake you're making here is that your random sample covers a particular period of time - ie, the 18th year or twelve months - whereas Natalee's being forced against her will only covers a couple of hours or less. Morever, since we're talking "willingess" here, a rape is not included in your random sample.

[rolling_stone]

Beth says she took 6 declarations home with her when she left Aruba. She had recieved one declaration that was torn. Beth says it shows how sloppy this case is being handled since she was able to get these declarations.

Beth says Joran admitted having sexual relations with Natalee in the back seat of Deepak's car. Wants to know if the Kalpoes were participants or observers.

I think the worm has turned tonight, first Beth tells about the incomplete declarations-missing important facts and that she has them..kinda letting loose a little info about how poor the investigation is....of course she burned her bridges and probably wont get any more info but if the declarations are lacking, pressure needs to be put now to have them made right...and Mark Furhman took a swing at the investigation, asking why was it announced behavioral specialist were going to interview Joran, thus eliminating any surprise or chance at getting anything out of him..thus his hands on ears or sitting on hands etc..Fuhrman then goes on to say time for US to vacation elsewhere and bring Aruba to their knees..other strips of sand to vacation on...seems tomorrow night Fox will have a 2 hour special that may be worht watching..

I think the heat on Aruba is being turned up...

[TAquinas]

"Any word about where along the coastlike the duct tape was found?"

None that I can find at this time.

[Parzival]

So what? Even non-virgins can have morals that requires a longer courtship before having sex. A casual meeting and even a shot of booze isn't quite enough for most women to jump in the hay with a stranger. That is true and I have not denied it. But many women and girls do, especially on vacation when one is more likely to loosen inhibitions. In no way does your statement, no matter how true, prove or even indicate that "any sex was definitely against her will". Now I am not arguing that the sex might not have been against her will. Maybe it was. But it certainly is not a foregone conclusion just because some here think that late teen girls never voluntarily jump in the hay with late teen boys they have just met.

[GarySpFc]

Why? It's not like 18 year old girls never engage in sex out of their own will and even initiate it.

Several have reported that Natalee was naive. That coupled with her reported high morals makes it EXTREMELY unlikely she would hop into the sack with a man she had not dated, and unbelievable she would take on 3 guys.

Take a random sample of 18 year old American girls and majority of them will not be virgins. So how can you say that "any sex" was "definately against her will"? Does not make any sense.

Having counseled many women I can appreciate that young women do have sex, but looking at the information we know about Natalee I find it highly unlikely she would have sex with 3 men present, and certainly not with all 3.

[Jrabbit]

Last night I heard a little bit of the discussion about the tape.....and I think it was on the opposite side of the island from the first one. But, I had company here and could definitely had heard wrong.....

[Parzival]

The mistake you're making here is that your random sample covers a particular period of time - ie, the 18th year or twelve months - whereas Natalee's being forced against her will only covers a couple of hours or less. Morever, since we're talking "willingess" here, a rape is not included in your random sample. The point is that since many 18 year old girls are known to volunatrily engage in sex you can't assert that "any sex was definitely agaisnt her will" without any corroborating evidence. Do you believe that "any sex was definitely against her will"? If so, why?

[rolling_stone]

So you think maybe she had voluntary sex with 1-3 guys and decided to look for more or commit suicide? Why did the three lie about dropping her off at the HI? How did she disappear, voluntarily? LOGIC.