More women are asking for prenups

Sun Sentinel ^ | September 18, 2005 | Georgia East

[Caipirabob]

Over a casual dinner, Rachel Kaplan turned to her boyfriend and asked, "You're open for a prenup, right?"

Darren Waldohlz, 38, a partner in a successful speed-dating business, admits he was caught off guard. But he said he realized a prenuptial agreement would protect the house he owns, too.

"It's not that I plan to get divorced," says Kaplan, 23, a single mom from Fort Lauderdale, who has a sizable inheritance. "I have to protect myself and my daughter."

While men are still more likely to seek a prenup, "women are becoming a more dominant force," said attorney Alan Braverman, who has offices in Fort Lauderdale and Boynton Beach.

Experts attribute the change to women marrying later or more than once.

"It's not uncommon in today's world that women are entering marriages with assets and stock options," said matrimonial attorney Jacqueline Valdespino, in Coral Gables. "Now both sides have equal bargaining power."

[HairOfTheDog]

I think this is a bad analogy. I don't think you can readily compare the moral issue of self defense with getting a prenup agreement. By getting a preunp a person is admitting to themselves that divorce is a possibility. If a person is unsure if the marriage is going to last, why get married?

Turn that around, if a person is convinced the marriage will last, why not get a pre-nup.

Two single people have only their own possessions to be concerned with. If both have only the normal accumulations of stuff, there is often no need to protect only your own interests. But sometimes, a person comes encumbered by the interests of other people that take special consideration in both prenups and ~wills~. Children usually, but sometimes others.

For example, I own shares in property in common with my brother and my father. It might have been important to consider that ~their~ interests need to be protected from consequences they have no control over... it's not only about me.

[ladyjane]

This is still more proof American males should seek women from Russia and Eastern Europe.

ROTFLMAO

How did we get to post #42 before the mail order bride group (aka little weenie guys) show up?

[R. Scott]

You're lucky she didn't turn up pregnant. Btw, did your bowels turn to water after she said that?

Almost - I do remember this heavy sinking feeling in my gut.

[R. Scott]

In Virginia Beach, Virginia. I couldn’t run – I’m an honorable man. Besides, I was deeply in lust love.

[R. Scott]

"He tells me he won't drink as much after we get married." "I know she cheated on me while we were dating but she wouldn't do that if she had a ring on her finger.”

Just like the women who think they can change the man after marriage, or the man who cheats on his wife with a married woman, both get divorced and marry – and then are surprised to find one is cheating again.

[Mr. Jeeves]

I think a simple change in the law would take all of the finger-pointing out of this. Part of obtaining a marriage license should be an accurate accounting of each party's assets and liabilities, to be filed with the county along with the other documents. In the event of a divorce, the judge will ensure that each party leaves the marriage with at least an equivalent level of assets that they brought to it. Any assets earned during the marriage will then be divided either evenly, or in a way that is balanced by which partner has custody of any children resulting from the marriage.

Essentially the point of a pre-nup - protection of assets brought into a marriage - would simply be part of the law and would apply equally to everyone.

[HairOfTheDog]

Not a bad idea :~D

That's the way it pans out anyway, usually, minus the checks written to lawyers to fight about it.

[Polybius]

By getting a preunp a person is admitting to themselves that divorce is a possibility. If a person is unsure if the marriage is going to last, why get married?

Because there is never any certainty in human life except death.

That is why we put young kids in the currently recommended car seats in the back seat of a car. If you are unsure if the car will be in a serious accident on any given trip, why would you ever put a child in it and risk the child's life over a trip to the grocery store?

The logic of "If you are unsure of the safety of X, then why do you even do it?" is a false choice that will leave you either paralyzed into inaction by fear or recklessly endangered.

[najida]

There are also behaviors that may not come to full bloom until the marriage is underway....

Mild jealousy becomes insane jealousy as the social circle enlarges,
A few drinks when stressed becomes heavy drinking during hard times.
Timid insecurity becomes rabid control freakishness.
etc

Granted, most of the flags are there, but some are folded and in the drawer at the time of marriage.

[HairOfTheDog]

A 23 year old single mother is not somebody that a young man should consider as a first, second, third or fourth choice as marriage material. There is a long list of reasons why she would want a marriage and "I love this man" is probably at the bottom half of the list.

You sure throw people away easily as worthless.

[Nowhere Man]

"It's not that I plan to get divorced," says Kaplan, 23,

Me three, for some reason getting divorced is what would happen to this lady. Maybe I'm trying to read too much into the mind of this "lady" but it seems she is looking for a "Sugar Daddy." One question I would have to ask her is that did she have her daughter to a marriage to where she got divorced or did she have her out of wedlock? I'm not picking on the daughter, she is an innocent in all of this, but it seems like this lady seems to be unrepentant to where she wants to do the right thing. All I can say to her is that she needs something much bigger in life than a pre-nup and the place to where she should start looking is The Bible.

[Sally'sConcerns]

Project much?

[Nowhere Man]

That's right, nothing better than a woman who is barefoot and ignorant. Please! If a women is all ginned up on feminism, puts her "career first", and winds up in her forties crying without a child or husband, or worse- like a character from Sex in the City, she has only herself to blame..."Hey, I bought into all this lame propaganda, lived the wrong life for 30 years while shoving it in everyones face, and now nobody likes me". And guys who have had to take her foolish, nitwit, institutionally protected attitude for years will find a hard time finding sympathy

Exactly. They made their choices in life and have to live with it as we all do. I commented on this yesterday to where it is like where I have $1500 to blow on either a top of the line shortwave radio or a VHF/UHF receiver. If I buy one, I must foresake the other, I cannot have both. Now a possible way to have both is buy one now and then make a change to where I can lay down the foundation for the other. I can also split the $1500 and buy a lower ended VHF/UHF receiver and shortwave radio that can do 90% of what the high end ones can do, pretty much the best of both worlds although I will not get 100%

I think the 1970's era "superwoman" is a myth, you canot do it all, have a power career, kids, etc. Decisions must be made, maybe have a career for some time and when Mr. Right comes along, let up off the gas and raise the kids at home for a while. When they whine about not having kids and a family at a certain age, I have no sympathy but I will offer them this advice: "you have some soul searching and decision making to do, if that is what you want, then you can go after it, but you will have to make a cut somewhere to allocated the time, resources and money to change to your new path." If she is too old to have kids, yet Mr. Right comes along and she wants to raise them at home, well, there is adoption too, there are plenty of kids out there that need special people to adopt and love them. I am convinced that God does put childless couples on Earth for that purpose, but that it just me.

Don't let the rancor get you down, being an amateur astronomy buff that I am, I ran a simulation of tonite's sky and it is the night of the Full Moon. B-D I'm gonna get it for that one. >B-D

[Arpege92]

"You're gonna tell me if someone is known as wealthy, they won't get alot of disingenuous attention."

No, I didn't say that so please stop putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is that if it is perfectly acceptable for a wealthy man to require a prenup, then it's perfect acceptable for a woman. I'm not even saying I agree with prenups, so don't go reading into anything.

"If a woman is all ginned up on feminism, puts her career first and winds up in her forties crying without a child or husband,"

Hey, it happens to men as well. I see alot of men from this country getting themselves a bride through the freaking mail. And when these brides come home with him and take him for everything he's worth, then he was never that bright to begin with.

"Hey, I bought into all this lame propaganda."

Sorry to say this, but that's not my problem. If you are unhappy about the way your life has turned out, then may I suggest you do something about it instead of feeling sorry for yourself. Not all women are meant to be married and mothers. But according to some men on FR, these women are cold hearted bitches. Double standards flow on this forum and as hard as this may be to believe....you are part of the double standard club.

My kneejerk cattiness? Being that I love FR and don't want to get kicked off, I'm going to remain a lady instead of telling you where you can stick your comment.

[Arpege92]

"Because there is never any certainty in life except death."

And taxes!

[Texas Eagle]

More women are asking for prenups

And that's just from Larry King.

[Polybius]

A 23 year old single mother is not somebody that a young man should consider as a first, second, third or fourth choice as marriage material. There is a long list of reasons why she would want a marriage and "I love this man" is probably at the bottom half of the list.

You sure throw people away easily as worthless.

I didn't "throw her away" and "easily" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

"Easy" would be to not even bother to think about the dynamics that a young child brings into a 23 year old woman's life.

I advised any young man considering such a marriage to seriously think it over and ask himself why four other women without emotional baggage might not be a better choice for him.

What emotional baggage?

When two people get married, the Number One reason should be the other person.

With a 23 year old single mother, the Number One reason could be easily be and very often is:

***"Now I have financial security for my child."

***"Now I can quit my job to stay home with my child."

***"I can't do this by myself any longer. I need help."

***"My child needs a father."

The man is no longer a person but a child-raising tool.

The same thing goes for single and childless women with "Biological Clock Syndrome".

We had one such woman move here from out of state and start work at our department. From the very beginning, she announced that her stay at the job would be temporary as she planned to get married by the time she was 30 and have a kid shortly after that. She had just turned 29.

"So, what's your fiancee's name?", we asked.

She replied that she hadn't met him yet!

Sure enough, within a few months, she had "met" somebody 100 miles away over an Internet dating service. A month later, the guy was driving 200 miles round trip every weekend to be with her. A few months after that, she shows up at work with an engagement ring on her finger. Shortly after that, she quit her job at our place, got married and moved to where he lived. About four months into the marriage, she got pregnant and, just as she predicted, she had her kid by age 30. A second one soon followed.

She kept in touch with us for a few years after that.

"Jane called today."

"How's she doing?"

"Great! She quit her job at her new place and is staying at home with her two kids. Her kids are (......on and on and on about the kids.....) "

"So, what about her husband Whats-his-name? Did we ever get to meet the guy?"

"I dunno. She never talks about him."

That poor guy probably never realized before he got married that he was nothing more than a sperm donor and a meal ticket.

[najida]

I have one question....

Do only women have baggage?

[Arpege92]

"Do only women have baggage?"

Hell no. A neighbor of mine lost his wife almost five years ago to an illness. She left behind three very young children....the youngest was only two. He remarried just last year to a professional woman with no kids, no baggage, and her own house. They had their first child a week ago. She's a very kind person and he's a lucky man to have found someone that will love his children as much as he does.

But hey, if it's a woman with "baggage" who marries a man with no "baggage", she's only after his money. Double standards prevail!

[HairOfTheDog]

When two people get married, the Number One reason should be the other person. With a 23 year old single mother, the Number One reason could be easily be and very often is: ***"Now I have financial security for my child." ***"Now I can quit my job to stay home with my child." ***"I can't do this by myself any longer. I need help." ***"My child needs a father." The man is no longer a person but a child-raising tool.

Those factors don't enter into any relationship as soon as children are born?

Your simple and unencumbered young couple will soon also find that they are together because they both love and need each other.

Congratulations to the woman from your office. You never know, could be her husband is happy too.