Posted on 10/01/2005 7:05:29 PM PDT by blogblogginaway
Edited on 10/01/2005 7:21:56 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
The explosion happened at the courtyard near the George Lynn Cross Hall, Botany-Microbiology Building on OU's campus, which is west of the stadium, according to Sgt. Gary Robinson of the University police department. The explosion happened during the second quarter of Oklahoma's game against Kansas State. After the explosion, police set up a perimeter of several blocks and made fans exit the stadium to the east.
NORMAN -- An explosion near the University of Oklahoma's Gaylord Family-Memorial Stadium killed one person Saturday, OU officials said.
School paper says same re FBI and they are using the "bearded" photo so maybe it's not a fake as some have suggested.
http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/10/03/43420103cdca9
I think you are right. The demeanor of the media report on Channel 5 and the reporter on Channel 4 saying the FBI was tight lipped speaks volumes.
Have heard all day they are sitting on info that no one will give them an "on the record" confirmation. No suicide note so they speculated it was an accident or suicide.
It is not a fake -- someone I know saw it at the OU Daily today and I just saw similar photos on Channel 5 news a few minutes ago.
Definitely not a fake.
Very strange, wasn't it? I can understand someone wishing to remain skeptical and not jump to conclusions, and wishing to wait for more information, but a couple of posters here seemed intent on heading off anything in the way of speculation. It was so consistent and persistent, it seemed to me they had a definite agenda.
Locking is in was not a smart move. Even when they announced that certain gates were closed and we had to walk around north of the library to get to the westside of campus, there was no panic. But what if another bomb had gone off, there would have been panic and the gates padlocked would have killed people.
I have been disgusted at Boren's comments since it happened that we were in no danger. How did he know? Now that I know we were padlocked in, I seriously doubt his ability to lead OU right now. He is recovering from surgery and maybe it would be a good time to take a vacation for a long time because I don't think I am the only one upset at seeing the padlocks they used to lock us in. Before this, I was a big supporter of Boren against what most Republicans think of him here. I am fast changing my mind.
Also said to have taken a year off, wonder what's in his passport ?
Nam Vet
The President seemed to be unusually tense and serious on Friday when he introduced John Roberts. He went through the motions of telling a joke about Roberts' son Jack, but he did not seem to enjoy telling the joke the way he usually does.
I thought they had an agenda as well. It was like they were covering for what the OU Administration was saying.
What was strange was that none of them confronted me directly. If they disagreed with what I was saying, why not ask me direct?
When 2+2 do not add up, you speculate about what if's which is investigative journalism but they wanted none of any speculation that could be checked out. I will say one thing for our local media including the OU Daily -- they are not reporting without sourcing which is why they are sitting on some things.
I don't think he expected to die from the bomb he made or any of the other bombs that have been reported was on site depending who you believe. Right now Boren has zero credibility with me.
One of the entries on an OU site said he tried to get in the stadium with his backpack and they wanted to search it so he went away. My speculation is he then went to the bench to strap on the explosives, go back in the stadium because they don't pat you down, take off the bomb and leave it, blow it up and watch the carnage. That's my supposition. Something went wrong and he blew himself up instead.
Someone said earlier today that the terror threat level had been raised. Wonder if that is why the President was tense?
The kid was a Junior and 21. My daughter was a Junior and 21 and she didn't take off a year.
Would love to see his passport as well.
http://www.channeloklahoma.com/index.html
check out the video titled 'Evacuation Plan'..some wierd dude with a SHAVED head talks about knowing Joel and makes some wierd comments about how analytical he was, etc. Don't suicide bombers shave their heads before a mission? (I know..I got my tin foil hat screwed on too tight..lol)
Nam Vet
Usually, no one is around if the bomb went off before it was meant to.
I find it impossible to believe that someone who is depressed to the point of committing suicide is going to invest time and effort in making a bomb. It just isn't human nature. And for what, to blow himself up sitting on a bench with practically no witnesses? Making a bomb doesn't indicate someone who is depressed. It indicates someone who is angry and has a plan.
The only part of the depressed angle I can buy is that it could make someone vulnerable to being brainwashed and manipulated. Someone depressed and unsure of his direction in life, as Hinrichs has been described, would be a perfect target for recruitment and programming by Islamic handlers looking for someone to do their dirty work for them. Especially in a university environment. All the elements are there for such a scenario. And with everything that has gone on in Norman, I'd say the tinfoil hat should be standard equipment when looking at this.
There was a guy on 930 a.m. this afternoon that talked about being in class with Joel and how he talked about explosives and ammunition and then said there was another guy like him they were going to turn in -- wonder if that is the guy.
If your tin foil hat is too tight, mine is squeezing my brain completely.
I think you have the right answer -- he was vulnerable and the vulchers took the opportunity to convert him. Obvious that he and his Dad were not close.
Call me cynical but I don't think the administration or law enforcement will source anything after how they've behaved so far... the media will have to tip their hand.
Here's a report on Sarah Tolin, who was found hanging in her Parkview apartment. How many women commit suicide by hanging? About as many as men who commit suicide by explosive device? She was going to graduate in May and commits suicide in March without leaving a note?
---The death of Sarah Tolin remains under investigation, even though the Oklahoma State Medical Examiner ruled the 2000 Kelly Walsh High School graduate died of a suicide by hanging at her off-campus Oklahoma University apartment in March, according to a university police detective.
"The case is still an active case and I can't make any comment," John Bishop said Thursday.
Tolin, 23, is the daughter of Don and Vickie Tolin of Casper, and was renowned as a wrestler who successfully challenged the state ban on women's participation in that sport.
She was scheduled to graduate in May with a double major in sociology and history, but was found dead in her apartment on March 7 and was buried in Casper on March 14.
Two days after her unattended death in Norman, Okla., the state medical examiner's office said that it determined her death was caused by hanging, but it didn't know other circumstances about how that happened.
Neither suicide nor homicide had been ruled out at that time, said Kevin Rowland, chief investigator for the state medical examiner's office in Oklahoma City.
The medical examiner's office intended to conduct toxicology tests to determine if Tolin had been using drugs or alcohol, and that could take up to 12 weeks, Rowland said then.
If suicide was ruled out, then law enforcement could proceed with a criminal investigation, OU police Sgt. Gary Robinson said then.
However, pathologist Dr. Chai S. Choi ruled her death a suicide on March 7, less than 10 hours after she was pronounced dead.
That report wasn't official until May 23, when Choi received the examination of organs and signed the autopsy report that concluded that Tolin died by hanging and the manner of death was suicide.
This closed the case as far as the medical examiner's office is concerned unless someone comes forward with new evidence, Rowland said Thursday.
To his knowledge, the case has not been turned over to another jurisdiction, Rowland said. "No other law enforcement agencies have contacted us."
Cleveland County District Attorney Tim Kuykendall said Thursday his office is not involved in an investigation.
But the OU Police Department is still investigating, Bishop said. "We're waiting for a few more reports before we close the case."
He declined to say whether police were considering any suspects in Tolin's death.
Natrona County Coroner Dr. James Thorpen, who has reviewed Choi's autopsy, said suicide cases on occasion have been reopened after other evidence surfaced.
At the Tolin family's request, Thorpen said he took photographs of Sarah Tolin's body before her funeral.
Bruises and other marks indicated previous injuries from assault, he said.
"There is a possibility that this could have been done by somebody else," Thorpen said.
"The findings at autopsy could be explained by suicide or homicide," he said.
Don Tolin could not be reached for comment for this story.
Autopsy statements
Choi's autopsy briefly recounted the events preceding the discovery of Tolin's body and why she ruled it a suicide.
Tolin and her boyfriend Joe Blackwolf had been arguing on Sunday, March 6, and when they returned home she went into her bedroom, according to her autopsy report.
Blackwolf went into the bedroom to check on her and found her hanging from the doorknob by a computer cord. He removed the cord, called 911, and emergency medical services arrived and started CPR. She was taken to the Norman Regional Hospital where she was dead on arrival, according to the autopsy.
Early morning March 7, Blackwolf wrote three statements for the OU Police Department, according to court documents.
Both Blackwolf's statements and the autopsy repeatedly misspelled Tolin's name as "Sara."
Tolin was pronounced dead at 1:17 a.m. March 7, according to the police and the autopsy.
At 10:40 a.m., Choi finished the pathological report of the autopsy.
The report notes neck injuries from hanging; scrapes and bruises on her face, chest, arms, legs and hands; and fine diagonal scars on her wrists.
Choi then writes: "This 23-year-old white female has a history of prior suicide attempts and self-mutilation," but does not cite a source for this history.
"It is felt that the cause of death is asphyxia by hanging. The manner of death is ruled a suicide based upon further investigation of the circumstances surrounding her death by law enforcement," Choi wrote.
The autopsy does not include observations made by emergency room Dr. Thomas Ingmire when Tolin's body arrived at the Norman Regional Hospital.
Ingmire reported that Tolin had bruising on her back, back of her legs and arms "which may have been evidence of previous domestic assaults," according to an affidavit for a search warrant written by detective Bishop.
A judge signed the search warrant at 11 a.m., 20 minutes after Choi ruled Tolin's death a suicide at 10:40 a.m.
While this affidavit mentioned the observations of the emergency room doctor, it did not mention Choi's comments in her autopsy.
The complete autopsy dated May 23 includes the lab analysis dated March 18.
The lab's chief forensic toxicologist Philip M. Kemp tested only for alcohol and carbon monoxide, and both results were negative.
Rowland defended the autopsy's conclusions, although he did not know why Tolin's name was misspelled.
He especially defended the omission of possible domestic violence, and defended Choi's statement that Tolin had a history of prior suicide attempts and self-mutilation.
His office made that determination based on the examination of the body, the victim's medical history, and the police investigation, Rowland said.
"All of that is taken into consideration," he said. "What does the evidence of everything show?"
NEWS TRACKER
Last we knew: The Oklahoma State Medical Examiner's Office ruled on May 23 that Sarah Tolin died of a suicide by hanging.
The latest: Tolin's death remains under investigation by the Oklahoma University Police Department.
What's next: The department awaits more reports.---
OK..went and watched it again, it was some teacher of his from high school.(had to put on coke bottle reading glasses it see it on the video..lol) False alarm from the rivets holding my tin hat on..lol
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