Kilgore picks up NRA support (but continues to attack grassroots gun rights group VCDL)

The Washington Times ^ | OCt. 7, 2005 | Christina Bellantoni

[nvcdl]

"The National Rifle Association yesterday endorsed Republican Jerry W. Kilgore to be Virginia's next governor, while members of a key gun-rights lobby fumed over remarks about their leadership made by the Kilgore campaign.... But some grass-roots members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) say they will not vote for Mr. Kilgore Nov. 8 because one of his staffers said the VCDL's president has "no credibility" on Second Amendment issues. "I am pro-life, reeling from the great tax hike of 2004, a staunch Second Amendment defender and wild horses could not drag me to vote for Kilgore," said Mike Downey, a Colonial Beach resident....."

[nvcdl]

Illuminating article - does not reflect well on Jerry Kilgore. He was given a chance to apologize for a staff member's intemperate attack on VCDL's Philip Van Cleave yet he stands by his staff and still refuses to answer the VCDL survey. Kaine has answered the survey - why won't Kilgore? It is unlikely Kaine will try to attack him over gun rights - is Kilgore afraid that his answers will commit him to vote for pro-gun bills?

If Kilgore becomes Governor I expect another Gilmore - all pro-gun bills will be quietly killed before they come to his desk.

[Corin Stormhands]

"I don't want [VCDL members] to take it as an insult," he said. "I just want them to look at our records and move beyond this and recognize which candidate is the candidate that supports gun owners' rights. They don't need a survey to decide that."

While I agree that Tucker Martin's comment was, at best, unfortunate, if the VCDL members are serious about their issues then they realize this quote from Kilgore is exactly right.

But, if they think they'd be anywhere better off with Governor Kaine, then perhaps their credibility is indeed suspect.

[robowombat]

This is not very surprising. I was not happy that the next in line to becom Repub gubernatorial candidate was the AG who announced his top priority was enforcing 'domestic violence' laws. This was nothing more than either pandering to fem libs to hope to get some traction for the governor's race or reflects RINO attitudes about men especially white middle class men are the problem and that the 'gun culture' only makes things worse. Kilgore is another of these sapsucking moderates who will quietely support more tax expansion sellouts by repub 'moderates' in the General Assembly.

[Corin Stormhands]

Kilgore is another of these sapsucking moderates who will quietely support more tax expansion sellouts by repub 'moderates' in the General Assembly.

You have no idea how clueless you are about Jerry Kilgore.

[robowombat]

I truly hope so. The Republican leadership in Virginia has a notable track record for being willing to screw its rural and small town base and play kiss kiss with corporate types such as Til Hazel who clearly expect the taxpayer to subsidize their development schemes, the educrats, and other corpratist types who expect the state to assist them to make their fortune. A governor who actually articulated a small government, mind your own business, minimalist approach would be a real change for the better.

[nvcdl]

I think you may not understand dynamics of getting gun rights bills passed in VA.

Typically the Republicans have let the RINOS's and squishs call the shots and keep gun bills from getting a vote. Worse Gilmore supported efforts by squishy republicans to compromise on gun rights - we cn thank Gilmore for having to get fingerprinted in some counties for CHP's.

We got more gun legislation thru in the years with Mark Warner as Gov.
Kaine may not be great on guns (he is about as pro-gun as Rep. Tom Davis IMO)- but if he has any political aspirations he may well act pro-gun once in office.

[Corin Stormhands]

Kaine may not be great on guns...

Whether or not I understand the dynamics of getting gun rights bills passed (and let me assure you, I understand a **** of a lot more than you may realize), you are simply delusional if you think Tim Kaine will be pro-gun.

Tim Kaine is not Mark Warner. Mark Warner realized the political expediency of being pro-gun in Virginia and changed his beliefs accordingly. But Warner had never held elective office and he had no record to hide.

If you think the man who used City of Richmond money to sponsor buses to the Million Moo March (and who was later embarrassed into paying back the city) is a friend of gun-owners, then I suggest you put down the bong and step away from the keyboard.

[nvcdl]

A pols past actions reflect on future actions - Kaine's past
makes me take his claims of support for 2nd amendment with large grain of salt.


OTOH Kilgore is letting his staff attack VCDL's President - a guy who is I know to always be very polite and if anything not confrontational enough.

In this election Kaine is trying to claim he is pro-gun - Kilgore is not going to be attacked for answrering pro-gun on a survey - the logical inference is that Kilgore doesn't want to take a strong postion on any particular gun rights issue.

[Corin Stormhands]

the logical inference is that Kilgore doesn't want to take a strong postion on any particular gun rights issue.

Most Illogical, Captain

From the Kilgore Website on yesterday's endorsement by the NRA.

"I have spent my life guarding Virginians' right to bear arms and standing up for the traditions that make Virginia such a great place to call home," Kilgore said. "I grew up in far Southwest Virginia, on a farm just outside Gate City. I grew up around guns, and was taught at a young age how to properly treat a gun and the importance of ensuring our families are safe. So protecting the Second Amendment is not just some issue I stumbled upon in an election year. It is how I was raised, and it is who I am."

Jerry Kilgore didn't have to change his mind on this issue. He's been there all along.

This isn't about his stance on the issues. It's about a small, but vocal, single issue group po'd cause the big guys (NRA) got noticed and they (you) didn't.

If you really think this calls into question Kilgore's 2nd Amendment stance you are either 1) not paying attention 2) deceiving yourself.

[nvcdl]

If he is so great on guns why won't he answer the VCDL survey?

Is this just a Republican bias against working with "single issue non-partisan groups"?

I would love to belive that because NRA gave someone an A rating and an endorsement that we would have our gun rights back.


This analysis from 2001 is a bit dated but can give some insight into relationship between NRA ratings and gun votes in Virginia General Assembly

http://www.vcdl.org/new/dvr2001analysis.htm


I'm sure both Kilgore support the Secondment Amendment - my concern is will he support pro-gun legislation.

Here are the questions in the survey:

http://www.vcdl.org/new/

At this point it appears Kilgore will accept an NRA endorsement and give lip service to the 2nd amendment but it doesn't look like he will work with VCDL - the group that has pushed almost every pro-gun effort in the state since 1994.

[Corin Stormhands]

If he is so great on guns why won't he answer the VCDL survey?

I have no idea.

I could speculate that perhaps it's because you guys are more concerned about him singing from your songbook than considering his stance and record on the issues.

But, I could be wrong.

[nvcdl]

VCDL doesn't make endorsements - it just surveys candidates on gun rights issues of concern. It makes sense that a gun group would hope to influence direction of gun rights policy.

VCDL does have a PAC that makes endorsements based on past record & survey. The record tends to trump survey answers but I don't think they will endorse a candidate that won't answer a survey.

[Corin Stormhands]

I understand all of that. I have no problem with that.

This should have been a matter of VCDL saying "Kilgore didn't return our survey." And then either endorsing Kaine (which is lunacy) or remaining neutral.

And ~that~ should be the end of the story.

[Godebert]

I won't vote for Kilgore until he answers the VCDL survey.

[P8riot]

Corin,

nvcdl just happens to be the founding president of the now VCDL. I would say that he knows Philip VanCleave pretty well. While I am disappointed with Jerry Kilgore's attitude toward the VCDL, I still intend to vote for him. I am not of the mindset to throw away my vote.

On the other hand, I do not think that it is correct to assume that the VCDL members (I am one) are jealous that the NRA got noticed and we didn't. I believe the NRA (I am a Life Member) has been quietly attempting to marginalize the VCDL for several years now. The NRA opposed the VCDL on Airport and Restaurant carry, and is willing to accept restrictions on our Second Ammendment Rights that the VCDL is not. While the NRA is active nationally, and is selectively effective on national gun legislation, only when they have to be (their recent lawsuit against the state of Louisianna was the result of pressure by the membership), the VCDL is proactive in trying to restore the local and statewide recognition of those rights.

The VCDL has helped to author most, if not all, of the pro-gun legislation that has been through the GA for the last 11 years. We are also attempting to restore recognition of the Second Ammendment rights of all Americans when it comes to carrying weapons in our National Parks. Every state gun-rights organization in America looks to the VCDL as the model for grassroots pro-gun activism, and most have attempted to emulate us, and their successes are are beginning to be evident. If anything the NRA is jealous of VCDL's successes and is attempting to marginalize us to ensure their own survival. People nationwide are beginning to come to the realization that the NRA is nothing more than a fund raising organization that in many cases just gives lip service or tokenism to state level gun legislation. As a result the organization's roles have shrunk from near 5 million in 2001 to near 4 million today.

From the article:
"Philip is more than just a little bit credible," said Steve Clifford, a car dealer from Woodbridge, Va. "The NRA really hasn't done half of the things in Virginia that Philip Van Cleave has. He walks the halls in Richmond and actually gets stuff done. That makes him more than credible on the state and local issues."

[Corin Stormhands]

See my post #13.

I'm not dissing you, nvcdl, Van Cleave or anyone associated with VCDL.

But for cryin' outloud, the latest poll shows this race neck and neck, we are 31 days out and I really want to know what in heaven's name makes anyone think this discussion is productive???

I'm sorry Kilgore didn't answer the survey. But he doesn't answer to me. And I'm sorry he doesn't answer to the VCDL either. But those are the facts.

The bottom line remains that there are people (on this very thread) who say they won't vote for Kilgore because of this. That's just sheer stupidity. And narrow-minded single issue voters like that drive me nutz.

This race is about more than Virginia. It has national implications. We know New Jersey goes to the RATS. It's pretty important to the GOP that we win this thing. And it has implications for next year as well. Allen's White House plans aside, we can't afford to lose that Senate seat. And it's about stopping Warner's momentum. Because, as much as we don't like it, he's got it.

This race is bigger than the VCDL and the NRA.

But, regardless of the survey, there is one candidate who shares most, if not all, of the values of the VCDL. And that's Jerry Kilgore.

And that's ALL I'm gonna say on this issue. Any further replies to me will be directed right back here.

[nvcdl]

I was pro-Kilgore before the hullabaloo but have not been impressed by the way he is managing this issue - it was a no-brainer for him to answer the survey as it would have helped his campaign fire up gunwoners if Kaine decided to attack him over it.

[TaxRelief]

Why can't the VCDL just accept the NRA endorsement and go with it? Do they have any idea how many of these "surveys" the candidates are asked to fill out?

[TaxRelief]

Kilgore is as far from "moderate" to the right as Al Sharpton is to the left.

[TaxRelief]

I won't vote for Kilgore until he answers the VCDL survey.

If you'd even consider voting for Kaine over one stupid survey, then clearly you would not vote for Kilgore even if he did answer all the questions. Campaigns are always dealing with this nonsense, and the usual pattern is that the surveying group will simply look for a "suspicious" phrasing of one of the answers and still vote for their pre-chosen candidate, in this case that would be K-K-Kaine.