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The Statistics on Homosexuality and its Effects
Catholic Apologetics International ^

Posted on 10/13/2005 10:08:23 AM PDT by Coleus

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Comment #101 Removed by Moderator

To: ProgressiveConservative
Blah blah blah blah "God" blah blah "10 commandments" blah blah blah "AIDS" blah blah blah "God's moral and natural law" blah blah blah "AIDS" blah blah blah "brainwashing" blah blah blah "gay agenda" blah blah blah...

I smell ozone... ZOT!

102 posted on 10/16/2005 5:32:23 PM PDT by DirtyHarryY2K (http://soapboxharry.blogspot.com/)
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To: ProgressiveConservative; DirtyHarryY2K
There is no "gay agenda" except for equality.

Perhaps for some but not the vocal homosexual activists. The link DirtyHarryY2K provided demonstrates a definite agenda.

103 posted on 10/16/2005 5:33:34 PM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: ProgressiveConservative
I'm sure there are more than a few gay conservatives...

Indeed there are - some of them are on this forum. And we have some ex-gay conservatives as well.

104 posted on 10/16/2005 5:34:13 PM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: ProgressiveConservative

"Pride parades are at least happy and, more important, pretty, and it's makes for a refreshing ONCE-A-YEAR break from all the ugliness in the world, some of which ugliness includes things like the original post"

Oh, it's so pretty seeing naked men with giant fake phalluses humping each other in public! It's so sweet seeing men dressed up as nuns with the same gear acting out real or faux sex acts! And how charming, seeing men wearing nothing but chains, leather chaps and jockstraps, leading little boys around on chains!

Pretty, and happy too!!

You are lying, you are not conservative, and neither are your friends. I wonder if you know all their names? The above figures are accurate and many of them are taken from homosexual researchers and publications.

If you think that FR was a good place to promote the "gay" agenda, you are about to find out that you were mistaken.


105 posted on 10/16/2005 5:40:51 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: ProgressiveConservative

Buh Bye!

Another one bites the dust.

Writhe in peace.


106 posted on 10/16/2005 5:42:39 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: BigYellowDog

There are other very suspect statistics in this piece: for example, the claim that the average homosexual man dies at 42 years. This is flat out wrong; this claim was originally made by the discredited researcher Paul Cameron, who based his results on obituaries printed in gay publications with a young readership, a research method with an obvious flaw. The truth is represented by a study that was done in Ontario recently: the average homosexual has between 7 and 20 years cut off their life expentancy (so they will probably live until their late 50s on average). This compares, by the way, with the statistics for heavy smokers, who also lose 20 years of life expectancy.


107 posted on 10/16/2005 5:46:14 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: Coleus; scripter; little jeremiah
He's dead Jim

108 posted on 10/16/2005 5:50:04 PM PDT by DirtyHarryY2K (http://soapboxharry.blogspot.com/)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K
He's dead Jim

It's too bad some of them can't stick to the facts and forget about all the misrepresentation. Perhaps I'm asking too much...

109 posted on 10/16/2005 5:55:32 PM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: scripter
It's too bad some of them can't stick to the facts and forget about all the misrepresentation. Perhaps I'm asking too much...

One thing I've learned, you cannot have a rational debate with a homosexual activist. just like Progressive's post # 100, all you'll get from them is - Bla, Bla, Bla, Bla, etc, etc......

110 posted on 10/16/2005 6:07:30 PM PDT by DirtyHarryY2K (http://soapboxharry.blogspot.com/)
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To: ProgressiveConservative

ProgressiveConservative, you are No Christian and Jesus did NOT issue ONE Commandment. He told us to OBEY and FOLLOW the original 10 commandments and issued two more beyond that. Next time read your bible and stop going to satan's church.


"Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if you will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God" (Deuteronomy 11:24-28).

"All his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness" (Psalm 111:7-8).

“Jesus said, I have not come to bring peace, but the sword.” (Matt. 10:34)

"If you love me, keep my commandments," John 14:15. "

In the book of Exodus, chapter 20, verses 1-17, God gave His commandments to men to obey and live by them, but what are we seeing today? Many say "I have Jesus Christ as my personal Savior." But when you ask them, "Do you keep God's Commandments?" they will simply say that the law or commandments have been nailed to the cross by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. In contradiction to the above statement by many, we hear our Lord Jesus Christ say:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled," Matthew 5:17- 18.

"If you want to enter life, obey the commandments," MT:19:17

Jesus said:

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19).

"If you keep my commandments you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love" (John 14:10).

You are my friends, if you do whatsoever I command you" (John 15:14).

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Deal with this, THE TRUTH


111 posted on 10/16/2005 7:06:31 PM PDT by Coleus ("Woe unto him that call evil good and good evil"-- Isaiah 5:20-21)
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Comment #112 Removed by Moderator

To: DirtyHarryY2K
One thing I've learned, you cannot have a rational debate with a homosexual activist.

I concur, which is why I responded as I did. Arguing with an homosexual activist is easy - just start talking facts and their arguments wither away.

113 posted on 10/16/2005 9:22:02 PM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: megatherium; BigYellowDog; scripter

Meg - for some reason I just can't accept your word as absolute proof that Paul Cameron is "discredited", especially as I've read many threads in which Scripter has defeated such accusations, in detail. Is this a new discreditation?

Please cite references and explain your accusation. Your opinion just isn't enough to convince me.


114 posted on 10/16/2005 10:36:43 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: megatherium; BigYellowDog; little jeremiah
Thanks for the heads up, lj, I missed this one.

There are other very suspect statistics in this piece: for example, the claim that the average homosexual man dies at 42 years.

I believe you are referring to Cameron's 1994 study, which was supported by the International Journal of Epidemiology here: Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men

Cameron's 2005 study: Gay obituaries closely track officially reported deaths from AIDS can be read in the scientific journal, Psychological Reports (2005;96:693-697).

From here:

The Washington Blade, a homosexual newspaper, has been the major gay paper used to track gay obituaries. So its obituaries for death due to AIDS were compared to AIDS deaths among males who had sex with males from the CDC for 1994 through 2000. Surprisingly, there was almost perfect correspondence. The effects of the new drug cocktails for AIDS were evident in both datasets. In 1994 the CDC put the average age of death by AIDS for gays at 39, the Blade at 40. By 2000, the CDC reported the median age of death at 43 and the Blade at 42. Similar correspondences were noted for the 25th and 75th centiles of deaths.
Informed folks know that the homosexual lifestyle is anything but healthy. Checkout my profile for pointers to years of articles on the health hazards of the homosexual lifestyle.
115 posted on 10/17/2005 9:23:07 AM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: Coleus
The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime.

Who are they asking? Back in college, maybe 8 partners in a semester.
116 posted on 10/17/2005 9:27:11 AM PDT by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: scripter
I believe you are referring to Cameron's 1994 study, which was supported by the International Journal of Epidemiology here: Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men

No, this does not support Cameron. Cameron claimed that the average homosexual male dies at age 42 even if AIDS is not the cause of death, and that the average homosexual male dies at age 39 if AIDS is included. The article you have linked to indicates: "CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men." (It also indicates that these numbers are based on statistics collected between 1987 and 1992.) These numbers are at least 12 years more than Cameron's numbers.

Please note I am not arguing that homosexuality is healthy. It certainly is not: the epidemiologists have made that very plain. My concern here is that we should not rely on Cameron. It makes us look bad.

117 posted on 10/17/2005 10:54:43 AM PDT by megatherium
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To: little jeremiah
Cameron has been publically condemned by the American Sociological Association, for misrepresenting sociological research. He has had his membership in the American Psychological Association stripped, for violating their code of ethics. Cameron has also been accused of misrepresentations by a US District Court judge in a written opinion.

If these facts are in dispute, I would be grateful for clarification. Meanwhile, I would steer clear of Cameron -- he makes us look bad.

118 posted on 10/17/2005 11:04:38 AM PDT by megatherium
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To: megatherium
You're missing the point. I didn't say the IJE study supported Cameron, I said it supported Cameron's study.

Cameron claimed that the average homosexual male dies at age 42 even if AIDS is not the cause of death, and that the average homosexual male dies at age 39 if AIDS is included.

What is your source for the above? I'm not saying it's wrong I just want to know where you got the information and if the source provides the complete study. Also, what does the rest of the study say and how is that different from the IJE study?

My concern here is that we should not rely on Cameron. It makes us look bad.

Why should we not rely on Cameron? I need specifics and not something that originated from Sullivan or Pietrzyk.

119 posted on 10/17/2005 11:23:40 AM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: megatherium
He has had his membership in the American Psychological Association stripped, for violating their code of ethics.

I thought you might be referring to this. Cameron did not have his APA membership stripped. He resigned in good standing on November 7, 1982. His resignation was accepted on November 28, 1982 by William Preston of the APA. Preston said he was sorry to hear about the resignation and asked why he was resigning. This is not the story you hear from Sullivan and Pietrzyk.

Cameron has also been accused of misrepresentations by a US District Court judge in a written opinion.

You're talking about Judge Buchmeyer who was repudiated by the full Circuit Court for misrepresenting Paul Cameron.

What I think makes us look bad is that some of us believe the misrepresentations of Paul Cameron without bothering to check them out.

120 posted on 10/17/2005 11:35:19 AM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: scripter
Please more details concerning the unreliability of the Pietrzyk article, and a detailed defense of Cameron.

I am particularly surprised to read (in your post #119) that Cameron did not claim that homosexual men die on average at 42 -- I have read this statistic many times attributed to Cameron by people posting on FR.

121 posted on 10/17/2005 12:27:34 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: megatherium
Please more details concerning the unreliability of the Pietrzyk article, and a detailed defense of Cameron.

I just provided you with some details. You can read Cameron's site here: FRI.

I am particularly surprised to read (in your post #119) that Cameron did not claim that homosexual men die on average at 42 -- I have read this statistic many times attributed to Cameron by people posting on FR.

After reading my post 119, I have no idea why you wrote the above.

122 posted on 10/17/2005 12:34:00 PM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: megatherium
You may find the following of interest as well.

Reviews of: Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well-Intentioned Path to Harm:

Dr. Throckmorton
Michael Brickey
NARTH

123 posted on 10/17/2005 12:56:06 PM PDT by scripter (Let temporal things serve your use, but the eternal be the object of your desire.)
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To: BikerNYC
The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime.

Who are they asking? Back in college, maybe 8 partners in a semester. >>>

yep, that's why in the US there are 15 million people infected with one or more STDs each year; roughly half of whom contract lifelong infections.


and why there are an estimated 45 million (one in every four adults) Americans currently infected with Genital Herpes

(Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, 2004, 36(1)6-10.)


and why there are 1.2 million abortions per year, and why there is a planned parenthood near most large universities.
124 posted on 10/17/2005 3:59:49 PM PDT by Coleus ("Woe unto him that call evil good and good evil"-- Isaiah 5:20-21)
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To: scripter
I'm confused about the 42 years business, I thought you were saying Cameron made no such claim and I thought he did.

I'll get to Cameron's site later. But I have a copy of Satinover's book Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth, and he doesn't cite or mention Cameron (or at least that name does not appear in the bibliography or index). Likewise, the Stanton Jones and Mark Yarhouse book, Homosexuality: The Use of Scientific Research in the Church's Moral Debate. (Both books are opposed to homosexuality; both are recommended.) A Google search on the keywords "Cameron site:www.narth.com" turns up precious little (only four or five articles that cite him; other familiar names such as Satinover or Nicolosi produce dozens or hundreds of hits). This makes me remain suspicious of Cameron.

125 posted on 10/17/2005 6:24:54 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: scripter

Thank you for the links -- I'll read them when I have time.


126 posted on 10/17/2005 6:25:39 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: Coleus
Then their data collection methods are not terribly accurate, if they are reporting that an average heterosexual person has only 8 partners in a lifetime.
127 posted on 10/18/2005 6:28:20 AM PDT by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: BikerNYC
Well, then, I guess you were a stud in college and above average. what can I say?

Up until the 1960's most people had only ONE partner, their spouses. Ask your grandparents if they're still around or anyone you know who were married before the 1960's.
128 posted on 10/18/2005 4:43:36 PM PDT by Coleus ("Woe unto him that call evil good and good evil"-- Isaiah 5:20-21)
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Comment #129 Removed by Moderator

To: freeminded4me
Just remembering, not every single homosexual person are going to follow those numbers. >>

Most do

take a look at the Caucasian statistics. If we pulled them up we'd find some interesting numbers as well. >>

OK, let's take a look, why don't you post them?

Are you a homosexual?
130 posted on 12/11/2005 11:16:33 AM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Coleus

I knew it was bad, I did not realize how bad. They are an abomination.


131 posted on 12/11/2005 11:20:05 AM PST by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: Coleus
It would help if the article's references were factual.

The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00 (24).

(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.

The 1990 Statistical Abstract of the U.S. doesn't mention homosexuals in its income section. Male, Female, Black, and Hispanic are all there is. (Or perhaps, I just didn't find the right table.)

This brings into question the other statistics quoted.

132 posted on 12/11/2005 11:32:03 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

good point, you may want to contact them regarding that particular reference.

http://www.catholicintl.com/aboutus/staff.htm


133 posted on 12/11/2005 11:45:00 AM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Coleus

So sad.


134 posted on 12/11/2005 3:10:37 PM PST by diamond6
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To: Coleus

This article has been around for a while. Groups like this generally don't bother to check statistics; they assume that no one else will. I just happen to have read the last two census reports.

It's not a peer-reviewed scientific article, just a fund-raiser.


135 posted on 12/11/2005 7:27:38 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: All

I stumbled across this site while doing some research. I think you all might be able to help me. It seems you have more knowledge on this topic than I have yet attained.

I'm writing an article for my campus newspaper. I want to tell the facts about homosexuality. I know enough to know that it's dangerous, deadly even, and my generation is dying without ever knowing what they are doing. I don't know how much Scriptural evidence I want to include, but I haven't had a problem locating that. As I'm sure you have found, it seems quite difficult to get accurate scientific, medical, and statistical information about homosexuality, AIDS, etc. I guess I'm coming at it from the "This is more dangerous than anyone ever told you it was" standpoint. I would greatly value your help!


136 posted on 01/03/2006 1:32:55 PM PST by cameronmiguel (Freedom fighter)
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