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The Expense of Spirit (A lesbianís sperm donor is hoist with his own petard.)
City Journal ^ | 25 October 2005 | Theodore Dalrymple

Posted on 10/28/2005 6:07:22 PM PDT by neverdem

We can usually sympathize with one or another party to a dispute: one is usually more in the right—or less in the wrong—than the other. But with the breakdown of accepted conventions, it increasingly happens that neither side arouses our sympathies.

Take a recent case in Sweden, where a lesbian couple wished to have children. An understanding and liberal-minded male friend agreed to donate his sperm, and three children were born to one of the two women between 1992 and 1996. But then relations between the two women deteriorated, and they split up.

The mother of the children found herself alone and in difficult straits. Who would support her, in her—and her children’s—time of need? Her former lover was unwilling, because—after all—she was no relation of the children. The sperm donor had made it clear from the first that he had no wish to be a father in any but the most literal biological sense; he thought he was merely doing the couple a favor. He therefore felt no moral obligation to support the children, and his conscience was clear.

Nevertheless, the government’s department of social security—the potential surrogate parent of every child—sued to force the sperm donor to pay. After a case lasting four years, he found himself obliged henceforth to support the mother and children financially.

The president of the Swedish Federation for Sexual Equality declared the legal decision an outrage. “It is scandalous,” he said. “The man has been condemned to be a father even though he did not take the decision to have the children. Above all, one of the women who took part in that decision has been absolved of all responsibility. If one desires equality of rights for lesbians, it is anomalous that it should not be she who was obliged to support the children financially.”

It would take considerable space to elucidate all the errors in the president’s statement. But I think that the language of rights, and above all of equal rights, is what leads us into this sordid legal and moral swamp. If women have a “right” to children, in the sense that not having them if they want them is an infringement of their rights, then of course lesbian women can no longer accept childlessness as the natural consequence of their condition. Let it not be said that new medical technology is responsible for this change in attitude, incidentally: the kind of artificial insemination offered in a domestic setting by the sperm donor has been possible for a very long time. No, the culprit here is the idea that the fulfilment of our desires, no matter what our condition, is a right. As for the well-being of the children in this case—beyond the provision of sufficient financial support for them—that seems to have entered into no one’s thnking.

A plague on all their houses, then: the idea that one “condemns” a man to support children is in itself both revealing and chilling.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: dalrymple; fatherhood; gaymarriage; gayrights; homosexualagenda; ivf; leftistperversion; lesbians; obligations; paternity; rights; spermbank; sweden; theodoredalrymple
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1 posted on 10/28/2005 6:07:23 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Freaks.


2 posted on 10/28/2005 6:09:26 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: neverdem
An understanding and liberal-minded male friend agreed to donate his sperm, and three children were born to one of the two women between 1992 and 1996.

Perhaps if he had studied the Bible and understood about the sanctity of marriage and life, he wouldn't be in this (liberal) mess right now.

3 posted on 10/28/2005 6:11:03 PM PDT by BipolarBob (I'm really BagdadBob under the witness protection program.)
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To: neverdem

What gets my goat is they want to do that here in the US as well. Man, you think fathers have it bad here now (and they do) just wait till they try to pass that stuff off over here!


4 posted on 10/28/2005 6:11:35 PM PDT by Danae (Most Liberals don't drink the Kool-aide, they are licking the powder right out of the packet.)
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To: neverdem
he found himself obliged henceforth to support the mother and children financially

I support that decision. He enabled what I consider to be a tragic situation. He should pay for that with financial support. Perhaps others will learn, and perhaps fewer men will donate sperm so that lesbians can raise children. That would be a good thing.

5 posted on 10/28/2005 6:13:18 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (W IT.)
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To: PLMerite
Basters, they're just not for turkeys any more:


6 posted on 10/28/2005 6:13:32 PM PDT by Michael.SF. ('That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy Sheehan")
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To: ClearCase_guy

It's not like he bought a one year subscription to Swedish Meatballs. He gave life to another person. He is the father no matter what his attitude.


7 posted on 10/28/2005 6:14:55 PM PDT by sine_nomine (Every baby is a blessing from God, from the moment of conception.)
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To: neverdem
The man has been condemned to be a father even though he did not take the decision to have the children.

As if that has never happened before.

8 posted on 10/28/2005 6:14:56 PM PDT by Michael.SF. ('That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy Sheehan")
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To: ClearCase_guy
Perhaps others will learn, and perhaps fewer men will donate sperm so that lesbians can raise children. That would be a good thing.

I would say, not just lesbians, but any woman who intends deliberately to raise a fatherless child.

Handing out sperm with no thought to the consequences is both unwise and wrong, and men should stop it.

9 posted on 10/28/2005 6:18:28 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Neither the depth of despondency nor the height of euphoria tells you how long either will last. ")
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To: PLMerite

Very sad, even sadder for the children. May God help them!


10 posted on 10/28/2005 6:19:56 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: neverdem

How can the woman and her children be in "difficult straits" when Sweden is a socialist utopia?


11 posted on 10/28/2005 6:21:48 PM PDT by Kenny500c
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To: Tax-chick
"Handing out sperm with no thought to the consequences is both unwise and wrong, and men should stop it."

Quite right. From my earliest days I have kept track of my emissions. And I have counseled others to do the same.

12 posted on 10/28/2005 6:22:49 PM PDT by Khurkris (Ain't life funny?)
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To: neverdem

How interesting.

Coupled lesbians splitting up and outside sperm donors forced to pony up. Grrrreaaaat Country.

What a tribute to society and social "progress."


13 posted on 10/28/2005 6:23:15 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: ClearCase_guy

I agree.


14 posted on 10/28/2005 6:23:18 PM PDT by mel
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To: Khurkris

LOL!


15 posted on 10/28/2005 6:24:01 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Neither the depth of despondency nor the height of euphoria tells you how long either will last. ")
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To: Tax-chick

Perhaps women should cross their legs more often, as well.


16 posted on 10/28/2005 6:24:33 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: bill1952

Oh, I agree with that too, but it's not the point of this particular story.


17 posted on 10/28/2005 6:25:18 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Neither the depth of despondency nor the height of euphoria tells you how long either will last. ")
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To: Tax-chick
Handing out sperm

Nice double entendre!

18 posted on 10/28/2005 6:26:26 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: ClearCase_guy

I totally support the Swedish government on this. Life, family, children, and responsibility are not games for queers to endlessly play with.


19 posted on 10/28/2005 6:26:40 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember
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To: iowamark

I hang around Lazamataz sometimes :-).


20 posted on 10/28/2005 6:27:10 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Neither the depth of despondency nor the height of euphoria tells you how long either will last. ")
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To: neverdem
But then relations between the two women deteriorated, and they split up.

Yeah, and? Where's the little wench that scooted away? Track her butt down and slice up her paycheck!

And then sew 'em both up so it never happens again.

21 posted on 10/28/2005 6:28:13 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: neverdem
But then relations between the two women deteriorated, and they split up.

Yeah, and? Where's the little wench that scooted away? Track her butt down and slice up her paycheck!

And then sew 'em both up so it never happens again.

22 posted on 10/28/2005 6:28:14 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: bill1952

Let's not be hasty now.


23 posted on 10/28/2005 6:28:59 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Ninety-nine Republican Arlen Specters arenít worth one Democratic Zell Miller)
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To: neverdem

I guess I'm the only one here who favors the biological father. Ignore the homosexuality stuff for a moment. Sure, it's bad, but that doesn't impact the legal point, which is the expectations of both parties when they entered into the agreement. The man thought he'd simply be providing sperm and that would be the end of it; the women claimed to want to be parents and take responsibility for the children. That's the issue. I don't know what the contract specifically said, but the story seems to make clear (though one never knows) the general terms. People need to be able to freely enter into contracts, and one of the few responsibilities government should have is to enforce those contracts.


24 posted on 10/28/2005 6:29:48 PM PDT by BackInBlack ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
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To: neverdem

No good deed goes unpunished...


25 posted on 10/28/2005 6:30:00 PM PDT by JRios1968 ("Cogito, ergo FReep": I think, therefore I FReep.)
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To: Michael.SF.

Any man who has sex with a woman runs the risk of being a father, whether he wants to or not. There is only one solution....let's see if any of the poor fellows on this board can figure it out. Here's a hint: it is foolproof and free.


26 posted on 10/28/2005 6:30:22 PM PDT by pepperdog
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To: Michael.SF.
Would baster virtuosi be called master basters?
27 posted on 10/28/2005 6:30:26 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Texas State Motto: "Regular or Extra-Crispy?")
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To: bill1952

What's worse, these idiots defame us, the U.S., because we don't sign onto their ridiculous, bankrupt---morally and fiscally, liberal policies!!!


28 posted on 10/28/2005 6:30:50 PM PDT by singfreedom ("Victory at all costs,.......for without victory there is no survival."--Churchill--that's "Winston")
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To: neverdem

They are his kids. He should sue for custody.


29 posted on 10/28/2005 6:31:01 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: neverdem

The difference between a regular bank and a sperm bank is that at a sperm bank you LOSE interest after you make a deposit.


30 posted on 10/28/2005 6:32:21 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: FormerACLUmember

"I totally support the Swedish government on this. Life, family, children, and responsibility are not games for queers to endlessly play with."

I don't see how your second sentence follows from your first (or vice-versa). Unless the government is going to outlaw gays from having kids, or outlaw sperm donations to lesbians, the guy shouldn't have to have his agreement retroactively changed by the government.


31 posted on 10/28/2005 6:32:25 PM PDT by BackInBlack ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
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To: BackInBlack

The legal reasoning is that child support is a right of the child rather than the parent, and as such any contract by the parent waiving it is invalid. I can't speak for Sweden, but US courts have upheld the principle on numerous occassions.

One more reason why I will never be a sperm donor.


32 posted on 10/28/2005 6:34:11 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Texas State Motto: "Regular or Extra-Crispy?")
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To: Tax-chick
No??

If said lesbo recipient of donated sperm had the remotest particle of common sense, she would have seen this coming a mile away.

And crossed her legs at the mere suggestion of the concept.

33 posted on 10/28/2005 6:34:44 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Tax-chick

If lesbians break up, do they both have to pay alimony?


34 posted on 10/28/2005 6:34:46 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: BackInBlack

I agree. I think the departing "spouse" lesbian should be responsible for child support. I view it more like adoption, I guess. Adoption doesn't relieve one "parent" of liability.


35 posted on 10/28/2005 6:35:28 PM PDT by singfreedom ("Victory at all costs,.......for without victory there is no survival."--Churchill--that's "Winston")
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To: BackInBlack
It's Sweden. It's socialism. A government big enough to give you everythign you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.

This guy brought a life into this world, and expected homosexuals (known to be self-centered and irresponsible people, in general) to take care of that life. They didn't. Now he has to pick up the pieces. His government says so. There's not much room for surprise here. As I say, It's socialism.

36 posted on 10/28/2005 6:36:22 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Michael.SF.
The man has been condemned to be a father even though he did not take the decision to have the children. As if that has never happened before.

Good point. However, this guy DID make that decision, when he donated his sperm.

37 posted on 10/28/2005 6:36:31 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: neverdem
...he thought he was merely doing the couple a favor. He therefore felt no moral obligation to support the children, and his conscience was clear.

That his conscience was clear is irrelevant. The right to be supported by parents to the extent possible is possessed by the child. The court is simply enforcing the child's right. The father's belief that he was doing the mother a favor is of no moment.
38 posted on 10/28/2005 6:36:43 PM PDT by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: neverdem

The lottery has now officially be replaced as the "moron tax"


39 posted on 10/28/2005 6:36:55 PM PDT by Phsstpok (There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
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To: bill1952

Well, I suppose that's true. The situation wouldn't exist if she'd said, "I'm in a temporary relationship. It would be inappropriate and financially risky for me to have children." However, that would make sense. Expecting people to use sense will give you a headache.


40 posted on 10/28/2005 6:37:32 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Neither the depth of despondency nor the height of euphoria tells you how long either will last. ")
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To: ClearCase_guy

Yeah, and how about the other part of the Lesbian team absolving all responsibility? Real good person there, NOT


41 posted on 10/28/2005 6:38:13 PM PDT by freekitty
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To: Slings and Arrows
That won't save you from crazy liberal judges.

Men in NJ have been found liable for support even for children that have been proven to not be their children.

42 posted on 10/28/2005 6:38:27 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: pepperdog
Any man who has sex with a woman runs the risk of being a father, whether he wants to or not. There is only one solution....let's see if any of the poor fellows on this board can figure it out. Here's a hint: it is foolproof and free.

Homosexuality?

43 posted on 10/28/2005 6:38:39 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: George Smiley

In states in the U.S. that have alimony, the higher-earning spouse is expected to pay.


44 posted on 10/28/2005 6:38:40 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Neither the depth of despondency nor the height of euphoria tells you how long either will last. ")
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To: neverdem
Interesting turn of events there. I wonder if someday anonymous donors might actually succeed in impregnating their own sisters?
45 posted on 10/28/2005 6:39:37 PM PDT by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: sine_nomine
Exactly. He's the Father, period. The only thing is that he didn't even have the fun of the boink; not that any of my college acquaintances had, er, relations of which they had no memory of once sober:-)
46 posted on 10/28/2005 6:40:27 PM PDT by RedStateRocker (Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6)
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To: bill1952

Actually, that's really an old principle from common law -- a child born to a married woman is the husband's responsibility.
The State just wants to find the nearest 'scapegoat' so as to avoid any responsibility on its part.


47 posted on 10/28/2005 6:42:06 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: Slings and Arrows

"The legal reasoning is that child support is a right of the child rather than the parent, and as such any contract by the parent waiving it is invalid. I can't speak for Sweden, but US courts have upheld the principle on numerous occassions."

Yes, it's the right of the child. That's why the non-related lesbian should have to pay child support. I was under a different impression, though admittedly a very vague one, about the rights of sperm donors in the U.S. I mean, I realize it's not good to have a fatherless household, but forcing this guy to pay won't change that; all it will do is screw over this guy who made clear from the very beginning what he was doing. He might be a liberal douche, but that doesn't change the financial responsibility of the lesbian who was with the mother at the time.


48 posted on 10/28/2005 6:43:31 PM PDT by BackInBlack ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
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To: ClearCase_guy

Why shouldn't the other lesbian have to pay?


49 posted on 10/28/2005 6:45:09 PM PDT by BackInBlack ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
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To: bill1952

I'm familiar with the idea of paternity fraud, and while I realize that there are no guarantees (particularly in states where any children of a marriage are legally assumed to be the offspring of the husband), a vasectomy and remaining faithful to any hypothetical Mrs Slings and Arrows should minimize (albeit not eliminate) my risk.


50 posted on 10/28/2005 6:46:07 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Texas State Motto: "Regular or Extra-Crispy?")
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