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U.S. Ship In N. Korea (USS Pueblo) Get Her Back
The Washington Times ^ | 10/29/05 | Andrew Salmon

Posted on 10/29/2005 7:35:16 PM PDT by takbodan

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To: ASA Vet

"The nearest Carrier wasn't anywhere near close enough to assist. It steamed at flank speed toward the area, but the Pueblo was already in a NK port, and the crew removed by the time the Carrier was on station."

Yeah - RGR - my memory is a bit fuzzy now days. But I still have a woodie over this incident.


51 posted on 10/29/2005 8:50:30 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Myrddin
We were eleven. Do you think we bought into that program????

It is a job that has to be done, there are horrible risks, nevertheless there are people ready to do it.

52 posted on 10/29/2005 8:52:14 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: takbodan

Yeah, why not blow up the ship? It would be easy.


53 posted on 10/29/2005 8:54:10 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: An.American.Expatriate; ASA.Ranger; ASA Vet; Atigun; beyond the sea; BIGLOOK; ...
MI Ping - Thanks Biglook for the tip off.

ASA Vet was on duty in the SCIF when this went down. We all thought for sure we'd nuke North Korea. Off duty guys came to work on their own. For about 3 days we were running double crews.

54 posted on 10/29/2005 8:54:15 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know.)
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To: cynicom
The P3 crew that landed in China was a disgrace but were given medals. The aircraft commander is no longer in the Navy.

The crew destroyed all the classified equipment before landing. The most important assets on the flight were the operators who recognized the voices, accents and communications of the monitored parties. Equipment can be replaced.

55 posted on 10/29/2005 8:55:02 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: cynicom

"Saving himself and the crew is not in the books. Nowhere.
The P3 crew that landed in China was a disgrace but were given medals. The aircraft commander is no longer in the Navy."

I vote for the pilot to fly me anywhere after what he accomplished. And I understand your position - I agree - however when TSHTF we tend to do human things for survival vs the book.


56 posted on 10/29/2005 8:55:27 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: takbodan
Did a quick search on Google Earth. Looks like the North Koreans aren't trying to hide it anymore. Those of you who have this program, go to North Korea and double click on P'yongyang. You will zoom in on the center of town and just to the right of the symbol you clicked on is a long, military looking ship moored on the river bank. This would seem to match up with the description in the article.
57 posted on 10/29/2005 8:58:07 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: cynicom

"It is a job that has to be done, there are horrible risks, nevertheless there are people ready to do it."

My God - and I bow down to each and every one and all - every day.


58 posted on 10/29/2005 8:59:43 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: cynicom
We were eleven. Do you think we bought into that program????

Reference for we? Which program?

59 posted on 10/29/2005 9:00:13 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Bobibutu
There were many that followed orders and were shot down over water, they were listed as missing on a routine TRAINING mission. No medals nothing. Not even acknowledgment of what they had done.

Their devotion to duty is cheapened by those that "saved" themselves and their aircraft or ship.

60 posted on 10/29/2005 9:00:27 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: Myrddin

Cannot be much plainer, we as in I and others.


61 posted on 10/29/2005 9:01:43 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: Myrddin
We were told if we were shot down over enemy territory we would be snagged out. Do you think we bought that PROGRAM???

Hell, everyone smiled.

62 posted on 10/29/2005 9:04:37 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: cynicom
Cannot be much plainer, we as in I and others.

You are still not being plain. Were you part of an 11 person group or eleven years old?

63 posted on 10/29/2005 9:04:56 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin

Re read posts abv.


64 posted on 10/29/2005 9:06:47 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: cynicom
Saving himself and the crew is not in the books. Nowhere. The P3 crew that landed in China was a disgrace but were given medals. The aircraft commander is no longer in the Navy.

I spent 8 years in the USN (including a year in Vietnam) and never heard that one before. The Captain is responsibile for the lives and welfare of his crew. They are not on suicide missions nor do we subscribe to the Code of Bushido.

The aircraft commander did an outstanding job of gaining control of the damaged aircraft and landing it safely. Do you know why the commander is no longer in the Navy?

65 posted on 10/29/2005 9:07:29 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

http://www.rb-29.net/...start here with this url and read many others avail on google.


66 posted on 10/29/2005 9:09:11 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: kabar

He is no longer in the Navy because he would automatically be an outcast. By the way he has become a politician and I think is running for senator or rep somewhere.


67 posted on 10/29/2005 9:10:39 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: cynicom

"Their devotion to duty is cheapened by those that "saved" themselves and their aircraft or ship."

You are a hard line Patriot - we are blessed by your attitude and service ... I on the other hand have passed thru that stage - right or wrong - to value life above all else.

An Arab diplomat some years ago summed it up something like this - Wars may only be fought by warriors over 45 and then only with their mothers permission.

I understand what it is to have mission first - USN - '61-'63 VietNam '66-'70.

Maybe I have mellowed to much with age.


68 posted on 10/29/2005 9:13:41 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: cynicom

What's your point?


69 posted on 10/29/2005 9:14:00 PM PDT by kabar
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To: cynicom
He is no longer in the Navy because he would automatically be an outcast. By the way he has become a politician and I think is running for senator or rep somewhere.

An outcast? A politician? How do you know that? You appear to be talking through your hat.

70 posted on 10/29/2005 9:16:34 PM PDT by kabar
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To: cynicom

"He is no longer in the Navy because he would automatically be an outcast. By the way he has become a politician and I think is running for senator or rep somewhere."

Hot Damn - With his cool under extrodinary circumstances - I would vote for him.


71 posted on 10/29/2005 9:19:03 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: cynicom

I understand what you mean as to the crew and especially the Officer in Charge (pilot) would have a bad effeciency report for losing the aircraft as to enemy forcing him down.
The military does not give second chances.


72 posted on 10/29/2005 9:20:27 PM PDT by southland (New Orleans was an incident waiting to happen.)
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To: southland

The military does not give second chances.

i.e., the sub grounding and no sea mount on the charts.....


but back to the Pueblo ...


73 posted on 10/29/2005 9:22:39 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: southland

The aircraft collided with a Chinese fighter plane. It had to make an emergency landing. Translation: It wasn't the pilot's fault and he had to use all of his strenghth as a former University of Nebraska football lineman to get the aircraft under control and land safely saving the lives of himself and the other 23 in the crew.


74 posted on 10/29/2005 9:24:46 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Bobibutu
I am pushing 80, hard...

I had friends that died doing their job, doing it as they were told to do it.

My last contact with such people was while Clinton was in office. I was a guest at NSA in Washington, Fort Meade, when it was publicly acknowledged by the AF and NSA that one B-29 that was shot down during Korean thing by the Russians, had indeed been caught over Russia. They managed to get out over the ocean before going down.

They did not "save" themselves. Clinton authorized purple hearts and other medals for all. There was not a dry eye in the packed auditorium that day.

Sadly three of the crew members had no relatives to receive the tribute for which they died.

I know I am old but I never forget comrades that did what had to be done.

75 posted on 10/29/2005 9:25:05 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: Bobibutu

OK - one Tomahawk - poof gone - what are the political and military ramifications?

What is really going on in this chess game?

Thots?


76 posted on 10/29/2005 9:26:06 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: takbodan

I submitted a plan many years ago for destroying the Pueblo as a response to the murder of two American officers in the DMZ in 1977. I was told to forget it. This was during the Carter administration.


77 posted on 10/29/2005 9:26:41 PM PDT by atomic conspiracy (British by birth and bloodline; American by choice and bloodshed.)
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To: af_vet_1981

Test out the new rail guns when they get them operational. Surely launching a lot of bullets from America territory across Korea and into American territory is kosher.


78 posted on 10/29/2005 9:26:41 PM PDT by Bogey78O (Live from Hurricane Katrina- Western St. Tammany Division)
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To: kabar

I agree it was not the pilots fault but when pilots and other officers undergo adverse situations they have a stigma attached to them. I was a pilot in Strategic Air Command in mid 50's and know several who were dismissed from service for less offense than losing an aircraft.


79 posted on 10/29/2005 9:29:32 PM PDT by southland (New Orleans was an incident waiting to happen.)
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To: cynicom

I am pushing 80, hard...

God Bless you Sir.

You and yours are why we are free and still speak english.

I am on my knees to you - thank you for your service to this great country.

While our opinions may differ - we strive for the same outcome.

God Bless you again ... and thank you - your input and attitude is priceless - please keep it up.

b


80 posted on 10/29/2005 9:34:59 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: southland
In mid 50s you were using most likely, intelligence gathered by people that risked their lives.

The first time I saw an overhead photo of a major Russian city taken at high noon, I was awe struck as was everyone else. Someone had risked their lives for those photos.

81 posted on 10/29/2005 9:35:25 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: Bobibutu
Read what you can about the 91st Recon SQ in Korean war. There is much good information and a book by a former AC from that outfit.

I forget his name but it is very enlightening for those that believe the Navy crew was heroic.

82 posted on 10/29/2005 9:38:26 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: southland
Each case is different. We had pilots shot down and captured during the Vietnam War. They were not stigmatized when they were released because they lost their aircraft. Some were promoted to flag rank and others received the MOH. The same holds true for other wars. Check out this article in the Naval Institute Proceedings: Confronting the Chinese
83 posted on 10/29/2005 9:40:15 PM PDT by kabar
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To: cynicom

You are very correct. There was a question if we had enough fuel to get to our target. No fuel left to return so the plan was to bail out after vaporizing the target. We all risked our lives. Five percent of my flight class were killed in first 18 months out of flight school. One of my class is on the Viet Nam Wall.
And I know a pilot who flew with Gary Powers while he was in Strategic Air Command flying F-84's.
I did not stay in that long.


84 posted on 10/29/2005 9:40:55 PM PDT by southland (New Orleans was an incident waiting to happen.)
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To: Zeroisanumber
Not a Clinton fan, but it wasn't like Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush 41, or Bush 43 have done anything either.

Any reason for not mentioning Carter?

85 posted on 10/29/2005 9:41:31 PM PDT by FDNYRHEROES (Liberals are not optimistic; they are delusional.)
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To: cynicom
In '69-71, I flew in the same air frame, PR 32, as the one that landed on Hainan. This was in a war zone..

PR 32 was thumped and then collided with a Chinese J8 (MIG 21 variant) suffering damage to the nose cone and destruction of the radars. The A/C commander regained control of the A/C, and the crew went to "pitch and ditch", destroying all sensitive equipment, jettisoning all to Davy Jones that they could.
The A/C commander brought PR 32 in to a safe landing on Hainan Island....not that he had much choice since he was under escort from other J8s. All in all, a commendable recovery on all parts.
All the Chinese got was a photo op and a battered airframe, which we got back.
We got back an entire aircrew.
86 posted on 10/29/2005 9:43:31 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: kabar

I admit War Time is different. I was refering to incidents not in War Time.
The military does not give equal consideration to problems outside of hostel military action.


87 posted on 10/29/2005 9:44:54 PM PDT by southland (New Orleans was an incident waiting to happen.)
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To: cynicom

"In mid 50s you were using most likely, intelligence gathered by people that risked their lives.

I was practicing " Duck and Cover" in grade school then - U-2's and then SR-71's later.

One of the 3G pilots is an aquantance.


88 posted on 10/29/2005 9:45:59 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: southland

In this particular incident, the pilot and crew of the US aircraft were not at fault. The Chinese fighter crashed into them while they were 50 miles off the coast. One of the Chinese fighters was lost in the collision. It took the heroic efforts of the US commander to land his plane safely. I would consider what the Chinese did to be a hostile action.


89 posted on 10/29/2005 9:51:40 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Fiji Hill

Under Xlintoon's watch they could have sent it by way of the Air Force Adademy, West Point, the Naval Academy and Potomac and no would have been the wiser!!


90 posted on 10/29/2005 9:52:18 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: kabar

Many expected that since he did have control of the craft that he would have dived into the water rather than giving it to the Chinese.


91 posted on 10/29/2005 9:53:20 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: kabar

Someone on FR posted a memorial page for the Dead pilot during the time immediately after the incident. I know no Chinese language but probed the page until an email page poped up. I sent message: the the pilots flight instructor should have told him not to fly near large aircraft.
Someone posted a reply to me that I was engaging in a dangerous activity . Perhaps NSA.
I got a couple of replys from a China source.


92 posted on 10/29/2005 10:02:14 PM PDT by southland (New Orleans was an incident waiting to happen.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Many expected that since he did have control of the craft that he would have dived into the water rather than giving it to the Chinese.

Yeah right. Given the description of conditions on the aircraft and the difficulty of maintaining control, the crew could not have egressed from the aircraft safely. The crew was not on a suicide mission.

The crew reported that they had succeeded in destroying secret equipment aboard the airplane before being marched off it.

93 posted on 10/29/2005 10:02:37 PM PDT by kabar
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To: H. Paul Pressler IV

"A horrible symbol of America."

True, it is a horrible symbol, however, it's harmless to us now. All of the comms gear has been vastly outdated and its purpose, after all, was comms intercept. There is one particular piece of equipment on the ship that, no doubt, was a particular concern, a highly secure means of communications but I suspect that either the Korcoms didn't know how to operate it or the NSA made it irrelevant.


94 posted on 10/29/2005 10:03:02 PM PDT by Rembrandt (We would have won Viet Nam w/o Dim interference.)
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To: Rembrandt
Chaof Anh,
About time you got back......at least some where I can find you.
Pick up the phone.
95 posted on 10/29/2005 10:12:47 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: Rembrandt
NSA made it irrelevant.

Correct.

96 posted on 10/29/2005 10:14:03 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know.)
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To: southland

"Someone posted a reply to me that I was engaging in a dangerous activity "

Keep it up and post - and keep a Rem 870 close at hand.


97 posted on 10/29/2005 10:19:31 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Husker24

Heh heh heh. That was good.

And it probably is the most modern ship in their navy.


98 posted on 10/29/2005 10:56:11 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Raaargh! Raaargh! Crush, Stomp!)
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To: Bobibutu

I was in Navy boot camp in San Diego when this happened.

My company commander, a chief petty officer was apoplectic with rage at Bucher for surrendering.

By chance we had a class about what you are permitted to do when you surrender. The instructor, another crusty old chief gave us the class by the book, and then told us, "This surrendering crap is for Army pukes!" "Bucher is a coward, and ought to be shot!"
"We are the US NAVY!" "You will NEVER surrender!!!" "You will WIN, or you will DIE!" "You will NEVER, EVER, HAUL DOWN THE FLAG, and you will kill anyone who tries to do so!!"

It made a massive impression on us.


99 posted on 10/29/2005 11:19:12 PM PDT by coladirienzi
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To: FDNYRHEROES
Any reason for not mentioning Carter?

Because he's a modern secular saint and can do no wrong.

/sarcasm

Seriously? I was just listing the Republican presidents since LBJ.

100 posted on 10/30/2005 1:06:49 AM PST by Zeroisanumber
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