Posted on 10/31/2005 9:43:58 AM PST by neverdem
Police took Michael V. Pelletier’s loaded pistol while he browsed in a bookstore; David K. Ridley’s mistake was to change jackets in a mall parking lot, and Penny S. Dean’s encounter happened during a late-night constitutional on a city street.
Because the New Hampshire Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms — no license needed, unless the weapon is concealed — all three got their guns back within minutes, but the confrontations caused them unease.
“The bottom line is that this type of thing shouldn’t be happening in a state where (carrying a pistol) is perfectly allowed,” said Dean, a lawyer and consulting counsel to Gun Owners of New Hampshire, the gun-rights advocacy organization.
Dean, in a routine followed often in the 10 years she has lived on Warren Street in Concord, was taking a late-night walk on June 16. She was on Pleasant Street out by St. Paul School when state trooper Abbott Presby stopped his cruiser.
“He must have asked me six times for a driver’s license. Then he proceeded to ask what I was doing there and I kept asking him, ‘Are you detaining me?’” Dean said.
She didn’t have her driver’s license. She had a cellular phone, a credit card, her license to carry a concealed pistol and her Glock 23 in a nylon, neon-pink fanny pack.
Dean wrote a letter to state police Col. Frederick H. Booth citing her constitutional rights and complaining of her “detention” by Presby.
“Had I not vigorously, repeatedly and firmly asserted that I wanted to (be) released from this detention I could have been illegally held there indefinitely. I firmly believe that it was only after I explained to trooper Presby that I was an attorney that the impetus to release me awakened,” Dean wrote.
Three months later, state police Lt. Mark J. Myrdek responded, writing that a review of the incident had found Presby’s “actions and conduct were justified, lawful and proper.”
On March 27, 2004, at about 9:15 p.m., three police officers in uniform and two detectives in plain clothes converged on Michael Pelletier as he thumbed through a book at Barnes & Noble store in Manchester. Pelletier and his wife had marked their 11th anniversary with dinner, then gone to the bookstore, where his coat stayed in the car. He had forgotten the change in attire left visible the holstered Glock 30 pistol tucked into his belt at his back.
A shopper telephoned police.
Pelletier said the officers “basically grabbed me by the shoulder, disarmed me and took me out of the store. They ran my license and registration and the serial number on the gun and stood around lecturing me for 20 minutes. It was irritating, but at least I wasn’t arrested.
“What boggled my mind was that out of at least seven officers and dispatchers involved not one seemed to know that open carry is legal in New Hampshire and they basically treated this like they would a felony stop. . . . I wasn’t doing anything illegal. I was minding my own business and I think they could muster the ability to treat me with courtesy and respect in that situation,” said Pelletier, who lives in Merrimack and is a West Coast transplant drawn here by the Free State Project’s pick of New Hampshire in 2003 as the place to promote its minimal-government agenda.
Alan M. Rice of Brookline, the treasurer of the New Hampshire Firearms Coalition, has been dealing with gun use safety for 10 years. He is certified as an “instructor-trainer,” qualified to teach even the firearms instructors.
Commenting on what Pelletier has written on the Internet about his bookstore experience, Rice said, “I think he exercised extraordinarily poor judgment on that particular night (because) he had an open-top holster in the small of his back in an unconcealed fashion. . . .
“Most professionals do not carry a gun there because it’s hard to access the weapon and hard to retain the weapon if someone wants to take it away from you.”
Rice prefers holsters with retention features that thwart efforts to extract the handgun, and he advises students to place the belt holster at their right or left side, where it is protected by the arm.
As a firearms instructor, Rice views concealed-carry as “a good way to deter crime because they don’t know who is carrying.”
Though it is legal to carry a gun in plain view, “open-carry is not a bright idea,” Rice said. “You are a target. If someone comes in with criminal intent, the first thing he is going to do is neutralize any person with a weapon who can hurt him.”
Like Pelletier, David Ridley’s move to New Hampshire was inspired by the Free State Project. He came from Texas, which he described as having restrictive gun licensing laws.
“When you come to a place where the right is recognized by government and you’ve never had it before, it’s a right you want to celebrate. At the same time, if you don’t exercise the right, I think you will eventually lose it. So for me, open-carry is primarily a political thing,” said Ridley, who lives in Keene.
Ridley had changed jackets and was engrossed in lettering a placard on the hood of his car in a supermarket parking lot in Salem on March 21 when five police officers, responding to a citizen’s call, asked about the holstered Glock 19 on his hip.
“They said, ‘You alarmed a person who saw the gun.’
“When that is the situation, they have to respond to the call. I understand that, but what was wrong was when they started talking about arresting me when I hadn’t done anything illegal,” Ridley said.
In responding to a letter from Ridley, Salem Police Chief Paul T. Donovan wrote that his officers would continue to respond “with an open mind” when a complaint comes in about someone carrying a firearm.
“In this day and age where people have committed some very violent attacks using firearms, it is understandable that people who do not understand the values of law-abiding firearms owners run scared. We need to work at improving our image with those who don’t understand,” Donovan wrote.
You know what? I give up. You are right. Have a nice day.
Perhaps if you didn't try to be insulting andactually discussed things instead of making personal attacks?
Just a suggestion.
Insult?? It wasn't meant as an insult, I apologize.
Now I'm confused, I was referring to the earlier statement you made about Mr. Rice's comment that the holster used and it's location was "poor judgement." I happen to agree with Mr. Rice.
Now you want to discuss deterrence. I would say, just by his qualifications, that Mr. Rice most certainly understands both deterrence and NH law.
He never said that citizens carrying guns did not deter crime and he never said that the police or the "alarmed" citizen were right to harrass a law abiding armed citizen.
I think that depends on the carrier. Of course, carrying a firearm should never be casual.
For thirty years now I have found that being a reasonably fit 6'2" male who maintains, at least the appearance of, self-confidence in public has made me an unfavorable choice for any type of aggression. It also seems to inhibit acts of aggression against others in my presence. I don't think the addition of a sidearm to that profile would make me a more attractive target.
I would agree that carrying requires maintaining a high awareness of one's own conduct (as well as your surroundings) but that's probably a good idea for the un-armed as well. My biggest concern about theft comes when I have to leave my gun in the vehicle but, again, that's where awareness comes in. If there is any reason that someone might know I have a firearm I exercise due discretion about where I park or whether I leave the gun in the cab or store it more securely.
The lawyer made it with tobacco settlements..
Thanks, looks liek a good site to answer all such questions....
Thanks Top...
They didn't use that expression when I was in.
" Rice said, “I think he exercised extraordinarily poor judgment on that particular night (because) he had an open-top holster in the small of his back in an unconcealed fashion. . . .
“Most professionals do not carry a gun there because it’s hard to access the weapon and hard to retain the weapon if someone wants to take it away from you.”"
He is correct that it is not a good idea to carry that way unconcealed. For concealed carry that type of holster is fine. Ever try to draw a concealed pistol positioned behind the hip from a holster with a retaining strap?
IMO it was very poor judgement to remove his jacket when he was supposed to be carrying concealed. You should always be aware that you are carrying, if you forget you have become complacent. In fact, if I was a skeptic (and I am), I would think he intentionally removed his jacket to start an incident.
Michael:
Congratulations for finally getting vindicated. I remember you took quite a bit of bashing on some other forums. Personally, I do not use an open-top holster when carrying openly. I use holsters with a thumb-break.
Bravo Zulu - i.e. WELL DONE in naval alpha code. I wish every pd in the US got similiar "training."
Copy that.
I made damned sure that this department was going to get the necessary training... the consequences otherwise would have been REAL costly.
I am a reserve LEO in a nearby small township; the city cops nearby should have known better.
You can think what you want, and consider me a liar if you wish, but I have always said from March 28, 2004 onward, that it was a mistake on my part resulting from a too-hurried exit from my home to make a dinner reservation and a new, unfamiliar holster. And that's all I have to say about that.
Another correspondant pointed out that the police response would have been the same, or worse, if I had printed, or had been purposefully carrying openly in a Bianci thumb-break hip holster, so Alan Rice's "extremely poor judgement" comment on the style of holster I was using that evening misses the point entirely.
Looking forward to seeing you here!
I'm hoping that this pair of articles will help educate the cops across the state. Should be interesting to see what letters-to-the-editor come in in the next couple of days.
Now try and carry openly here in Texas.
Or, pay up a couple hundred bucks, a 12 hour 1-day class, go through the hoops set up by the States "guilty until proven innocent" background checks, and then maybe they'll let you carry one but ony if you keep it concealed.
We need 50 State Alaska style C/CW to bring us inline with the Second Amendment.
Me? I just keep my M16A2 at sling arms. Less fuss.
Remember, the rest of the expression is "Only when 'tis folly to be wise"
I find it enlightening that two of these folks are Free Staters, a group that has been bashed a lot around here. It seems as though they are making their presence felt in a positive way, good for them.
Though it is legal to carry a gun in plain view, “open-carry is not a bright idea,” Rice said. “You are a target. If someone comes in with criminal intent, the first thing he is going to do is neutralize any person with a weapon who can hurt him.”
Mr. Rice doesn't get it.
Your moniker is ironic.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.