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Prehistoric skull found in dump may be missing common ancestor of apes & humans
The Guardian ^ | Monday November 7, 2005 | Dale Fuchs in Madrid

Posted on 11/07/2005 8:35:20 AM PST by dead

Palaeontologists excavating a dump outside Barcelona have found a skull dating back 14m years that could belong to a common ancestor of apes and humans.

The nearly intact skull, which has a flat face, jaw and teeth, may belong to a previously unknown species of great ape, said Salvador Moya, the chief palaeontologist on the dig. "We could find a cradle of humanity in the Mediterranean," he said.

A routine land survey for a planned expansion of the Can Mata dump in Els Hostalets de Pierola turned up the first surprise in 2002: a primate's tooth.

Since then, scientists from the Miquel Crusafont Institute of Palaeontology in Sabadell have unearthed nearly 12,000 fossils of primates and other animals that lived during the Middle Miocene era - between 14m and 8m years ago - when the area was covered by tropical rainforest and populated by the precursors of today's elephants, antelopes and monkeys.

Last year, the team found a 13m-year-old partial skeleton, also believed to be a common ancestor of apes and humans - a male fruit-eater, nicknamed Pau.

"If there is a place in the world where it is possible to find an entire skeleton of a common ancestor to the great apes and humans, it is Hostalets de Pierola," Mr Moya told El País newspaper. "In few places [will] you uncover so many connected vertebrae in such good condition."

The Can Mata dump sits above clay soil in which animal remains became trapped and well-preserved.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; evilution; history; monkeygod; multiregionalism
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Especially when the article is from a known communist organ like the Guardian.

I am eagerly awaiting the post where you link fluoridation of the water supply and attempts by Commnunists to sap our precious bodily fluids into the Evolution conspiracy.

121 posted on 11/07/2005 11:17:20 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: Palisades

"We share a common ancestor with chimps"

You may say whatever you wish about your personal family tree, but unless you have a mouse in your pocket, you should change that "we" to " I".

Believe what you wish, and have a wonderful day.


122 posted on 11/07/2005 11:20:56 AM PST by Beagle8U (An "Earth First" kinda guy ( when we finish logging here, we'll start on the other planets.)
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To: RogueIsland

"I do not avoid women, Mandrake, but... I do deny them my essence." placemark


123 posted on 11/07/2005 11:25:49 AM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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To: Beagle8U

Hey it was 6 million years ago that we shared a common ancestor with a chimp; I guess you think that nothing that old ever existed in the first place so I guess it is no sweat off your brow.


124 posted on 11/07/2005 11:29:22 AM PST by USConstitutionBuff
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To: RogueIsland


<< I am eagerly awaiting the post where you link fluoridation of the water supply and attempts by Commnunists to sap our precious bodily fluids into the Evolution conspiracy. >>


"Have you ever seen your average Commie drinking water, Mandrake? Vodka -- that's what they drink."


125 posted on 11/07/2005 11:32:35 AM PST by Ulugh Beg ("Mr. President... I'm beginning to smell a great, big, Commie rat!")
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To: Beagle8U
Does your sense of self-worth really rise or fall on the details of who or what your very distant ancestors were???

Heck, I have no idea what my great-grandparents were like, nor why exactly they brought their family to America from Lithuania. I have a strong suspicion that my mother's great-grandparents in Alabama owned slaves, yet I've never had a desire to own slaves myself, nor do I feel particularly guilty because of my great-great-grandparents. (If their ill-gotten wealth at the expense of the people they enslaved had trickled down to my mom, then I'd feel guilty. But when my maternal great-grandparents died in the 1910's, my grandmother was cheated by her brothers out of whatever wealth had remained. The advantages or disadvantages that I started out with came from the choices that my parents made in their lives.)

I do feel ashamed or proud of my ancestors, but why should my judgement of them affect my judgement of myself? I've made my own choices in my own life, thank you very much. And why should I feel either proud or ashamed of the fact that my great-great-[snip 500,000 "greats"]-great grandparents were basically chimpanzees?

Help me out here. Am I wrong to not worry about what my distant ancestors were?

126 posted on 11/07/2005 11:38:23 AM PST by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Art of Unix Programming by Raymond)
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To: Beagle8U
Do you think that when their life turns to crap, and death is near, Do they pray to Darwin?

Do you enjoy strawmen, or do you just not have any rational arguments for your position?
127 posted on 11/07/2005 11:39:28 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Beagle8U
You may say whatever you wish about your personal family tree

For every human being in existence today, our entire family tree is composed of homo sapiens. However, our species as a whole shares a common ancestor with the other apes.

but unless you have a mouse in your pocket, you should change that "we" to " I".

Sorry, but your wilful denial of the facts in no way changes those facts. You are an ape, just like every other human being, and we all share a common ancestor with chimps.

Like I said, this is not a question of belief. This is a fact.

128 posted on 11/07/2005 11:40:05 AM PST by Palisades (Cthulhu in 2008! Why settle for the lesser evil?)
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To: Beagle8U
It doesn't bother me in the least if you believe you evolved from chimps.

It's obvious that you have absolutely no interest whatsoever in learning what evolution actually states or learning what people who accept evolution actually believe, so why are you here tossing out false claims?
129 posted on 11/07/2005 11:40:49 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

And why are you here, when it's obvious that you don't care about what evolution states? Do you just come in to ridicule biology from a position of willful ignorance, or do you really think that you're scoring points with inane strawmen and non-sequiturs?


130 posted on 11/07/2005 11:42:27 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: dead

[Edited for clarity]

Prehistoric skull found in dump may (opinion) be missing common ancestor of apes & humans
The Guardian ^ | Monday November 7, 2005 | Dale Fuchs in Madrid

Palaeontologists excavating a dump outside Barcelona have found a skull dating back 14m years that could (opinion) belong to a common ancestor(opinion) of apes and humans.

The nearly intact skull, which has a flat face, jaw and teeth, may (opinion) belong to a previously unknown species of great ape, said Salvador Moya, the chief palaeontologist on the dig. "We could (opinion)  find a cradle of humanity in the Mediterranean," he said.

A routine land survey for a planned expansion of the Can Mata dump in Els Hostalets de Pierola turned up the first surprise in 2002: a primate's tooth.

Since then, scientists from the Miquel Crusafont Institute of Palaeontology in Sabadell have unearthed nearly 12,000 fossils of primates and other animals that lived during the Middle Miocene era - between 14m and 8m years ago - when the area was covered by tropical rainforest and populated by the precursors of today's elephants, antelopes and monkeys.

Last year, the team found a 13m-year-old partial skeleton, also believed (opinion)  to be a common ancestor of apes and humans - a male fruit-eater, nicknamed Pau.

"If there is a place in the world where it is possible (opinion) to find an entire skeleton of a common ancestor (opinion) to the great apes and humans, it is Hostalets de Pierola," Mr Moya told El País newspaper. "In few places [will] you uncover (opinion) so many connected vertebrae in such good condition."

The Can Mata dump sits above clay soil in which animal remains became trapped and well-preserved.


131 posted on 11/07/2005 11:48:15 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (outside a good dog, a book is your best friend. inside a dog it's too dark to read)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

You should act as editor for other science articles, too, so you can remind us all that current explanations behind gravity are also only "opinion".


132 posted on 11/07/2005 11:49:22 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Palisades
Why does the thought that we are closely related to chimpanzees bother you so much?

It sets a standard he doesn't think he can reach.

133 posted on 11/07/2005 11:50:02 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (If you love peace, prepare for war. If you hate violence, own a gun.)
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To: ErnBatavia

I knew that Helen Thomas would be here somewhere. Someone should just ask her about evolution, she's seen most of it.


134 posted on 11/07/2005 11:50:55 AM PST by exile (Exile - Helen Thomas tried to lure me into her Gingerbread House.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Your cute little color coded opinion editing creates a false impression.

Are you aware that experts (for example, scientists) are allowed to give opinions in court testimony, but that laymen are not?

Can you think of any reason that this might be the case?

135 posted on 11/07/2005 11:55:49 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Dimensio
so why are you here tossing out false claims?

Because they got lost on the way to the supernaturalist forum.

136 posted on 11/07/2005 12:00:53 PM PST by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Well, you state the obvious very well in your edit. But, the qualifying words were already in there. Nobody's claiming that these fossils ARE a common ancestor. The claim is that they MAY BE.

We can all read just fine. Qualifying words are used when they are needed, especially by scientists. And there they are in the article, for everyone to see.

You seem to be surprised that such words are used, and seem to feel the need to point them out to us. Why is that? Do you suppose we cannot read?


137 posted on 11/07/2005 12:02:16 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Coyoteman

Hi Coyoteman! Hope it's as beautiful in your neck of the
woods as it is in PA today. And even better, they're digging
a pool in my backyard today.

OK, down to the hard science of evolution...

YES. I am aware of this. There are also other "experts"
who are also called to give testimony and they include
professors of philosophy, statistics, plumbers, glove &
shoe salesmen, and morticians.

But, testifying to an opinion is quite different than
the concept of what is opinion and what is fact.

My post pointed out what was opinion. In that regard,
though you disagree, I believe it was fair.

All the best,
ampu


138 posted on 11/07/2005 12:05:40 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (outside a good dog, a book is your best friend. inside a dog it's too dark to read)
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To: MineralMan

MM,
thanks for your post.

I didn't state the obvious. I pointed it out.
I am not surprised. I expected it.
Why did I do it? I assure you it wasn't because
I knew anything about your reading ability at all.

I did it to emphasize a point. And I'm sure you
knew that... :-)

best,
ampu


139 posted on 11/07/2005 12:09:19 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (outside a good dog, a book is your best friend. inside a dog it's too dark to read)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Hi Coyoteman! Hope it's as beautiful in your neck of the woods as it is in PA today. And even better, they're digging a pool in my backyard today.

Digging a pool? Heck, you're doing archaeology now! Never know what you'll find.

If it is a nice find, you might even want to tell the local paper. Then you'll have to say something like, "Its probably (opinion) an arrowhead!"

;-)

140 posted on 11/07/2005 12:11:09 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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