Bird Flu May Over-Stimulate Immune System

Science Daily ^ | 11-11-2005

[blam]

Bird flu may over-stimulate immune system

HONG KONG, Nov. 11 (UPI) -- Researchers in Hong Kong say the H5N1 bird flu virus may provoke an excessive immune reaction, explaining why it is deadly even to the young and healthy.

Laboratory tests on human cells showed that the virus caused the immune system to send proteins called cytokines to infected lung cells, a reaction that would end up damaging or destroying the tissues the immune system is meant to defend.

The tests were carried out by scientists at the University of Hong Kong, working with samples from patients who died in Vietnam. The results were published in the online medical journal Respiratory Research.

The research suggested that patients who contract bird flu may need drugs that suppress the immune response in addition to anti-viral drugs like Tamiflu. It also indicated that healthy people with strong immune systems could fare worse than others if they became infected.

The virus has killed flocks of poultry and migratory birds, particularly in Asia, in recent months, but only 124 people have been infected, through direct contact with birds. Sixty-four of them have died.

The new research may affect preparations by health officials worldwide, who fear a pandemic may occur if the virus mutates to become passed from human to human.

Copyright 2005 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved.

[LibFreeOrDie]

"We have shown that RV [resveratrol], a natural polyphenol whose concentration in red wine is 1.5-3.0 mg/L, can inhibit the in vitro and in vivo replication of influenza A virus without producing any significant toxicity," the article states.

I'll drink to that!

[ThePythonicCow]

I forget where I saw it now, but a couple of days ago, I read that we have one thing in our favor so far on this thread. The worst pandemics, in terms of total number of humans killed, kill only perhaps 20% of its victims. Viruses that kill 50% to 80% (as H5N1 is doing, in its isolated cases so far) are less dangerous to humankind, because they kill too many, limiting its spread.

So the good news is, if this does mutate into virus causing a world wide pandemic, it will be less lethal, with perhaps at least 80% of those of us afflicted surviving.

[blam]

"I'll drink to that!"

Ahem, grape juice works just as well, I've read.

[blam]

"Viruses that kill 50% to 80% (as H5N1 is doing, in its isolated cases so far) are less dangerous to humankind, because they kill too many, limiting its spread."

I saw a program the other night on the National Geographic Channel (I think) titled, The Plague. One of the researchers on there said that the 'Black Death' deaths had been underestimated and it was probably over 50%. That program was followed by another titled: The Next Plague, see them if you get the chance. It covers the next pandemic which is assumed to be the mutated (human - human) H5N1. (It was scary)

[ThePythonicCow]

But wasn't the plague spread by fleas on rats or some such, which would mean that the mechanisms that suppress the extent of epidemics caused by overly aggressive viruses spread by human to human contact would not apply?

[spectre]

My Mother's Mom was only 18 when she died in 1918 around the Pittsburg area. My Mother was just 9 months old and didn't get sick. Thank God.

"It struck in the Pittsburgh area in October and November of 1918 and claimed 4,500 lives. Some 22,000 cases were recorded.

In October 1918, new cases were reported in the hundreds daily and deaths numbered 175 per day. The epidemic surged to a peak around the end of October and then, gradually, the number of cases began to fall.

No one at the time knew that a virus caused influenza. Sadly, in Pittsburgh, 700 children became orphans as a result of the epidemic.

sw

[Domestic Church]

Buy stock in Welche's first!

[ThePythonicCow]

Another recommendation - Cat's Claw. See further Potential Therapeutic Interventions for Human Avian Influenza Infection.

[Domestic Church]

My uncle died in 1918 of it too...he was a West Point Cadet...about as hardy and hale as one could get.

[The Phantom FReeper]

This is a rather poorly-written article. Immune cells secrete cytokines as a part of any immunological response, so the article fails to explain exactly what may set H5N1 apart from most pathogens in its stimulation of the immune system. Hyperstimulation of the immune system is one thing, but this piece makes it sound like something that happens with every inflammatory response is out of the ordinary.

I wonder if we'll now see folks make a run on corticosteroids at online "pharmacies."

[ThePythonicCow]

This site looks interesting - http://www.fluwikie.com:

About FluWiki

The purpose of the FluWiki is to help local communities prepare for and perhaps cope with a possible influenza pandemic. This is a task previously ceded to local, state and national governmental public health agencies. Our goal is to be:

• a reliable source of information, as neutral as possible, about important facts useful for a public health approach to pandemic influenza
• a venue for anticipating the vast range of problems that may arise if a pandemic does occur
• a venue for thinking about implementable solutions to foreseeable problems

[blam]

"But wasn't the plague spread by fleas on rats or some such, which would mean that the mechanisms that suppress the extent of epidemics caused by overly aggressive viruses spread by human to human contact would not apply?"

Yup. Rats/fleas. One of the researchers speculated that two things (two infectious agents) may have been going on at the same time.

[blam]

LOL. I'm a member of that site but, haven't been there in a while.

[blam]

"I wonder if we'll now see folks make a run on corticosteroids at online "pharmacies.""

Probably. All the sauerkraut is gone.

[The Phantom FReeper]

Probably. All the sauerkraut is gone.

Sauerkraut?

[blam]

"Sauerkraut?"

LOL. Yes. It's been in the press that sauerkraut/kimchi is good for the flu. Sales nationwide are up 350% and 800% in some areas

I've kept a list of all the things that have been reported to have anti-viral properties:

Star Anise
Ginseng
Sauerkraut/kinchi
Licorice
Grape juice
Cinnamon
Elder berries

[blam]

"Sauerkraut?"

LOL. Yes. It's been in the press that sauerkraut/kimchi is good for the flu. Sales nationwide are up 350% and 800% in some areas

I've kept a list of all the things that have been reported to have anti-viral properties:

* Star Anise
* Ginseng
* Sauerkraut/kinchi
* Licorice
* Grape juice
* Cinnamon
* Elder berries

There are probably others that 'got by' me before I started keeping this list.

[steve86]

I think it might have been Judith Anne who first pointed out (on the Flu Preps thread) that Haldol (haloperidol) can be effectively used against cytokine storms. It, however, normally is used as a potent psychiatric drug and caution would be required in its use. A patient undergoing a cytokine storm might be deteriorating quickly and unable to take any oral drug. Therefore this would probably be a hospital/IM administration although JA suggested it would be worth a little research to see if a suppository form is available.

During an earlier stage of the flu, it might be worth taking a natural agent like curcumin that is known to possess the anti-cytokine activity. But curcumin must be taken along with piperine, or it is not absorbed adequately in the GI. There is at least one product on the market that combines the two. If you buy a curcumin extract make sure it carries a standardized percentage of curcumin in the 90s. Spice/tumeric has only a tiny bit of curcumin compared to the standardized extracts.

My own strategy is to boost the immune system before the influenza is contracted, to try to avoid it in the first place. Black Elderberry extract is a good way to do this.
But I would stop the immune boosters immediately if there is any chance the flu has gotten a foothold. The timing of this is going to be a tricky thing because some people in 1918 died the same day they became aware they were ill with the flu.

Someone mentioned resveratrol extract -- this is good also. Again, Pinot Noir products, although more fun, have only a small amount compared to the extract. Again there is concern that resveratrol in either form may not be absorbed properly, like curcumin.

[steve86]

I think kimchi would be worse than death but my wife can handle it.

[steve86]

I forgot to mention Borage oil also; thought to reduce cytokines. I have started taking it for other benefits.