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New poll finds Sharon has 30% lead over Netanyahu [Likud primary race in Israel]
The Jerusalem Post ^ | 16 November 2005 | GIL HOFFMAN AND JPOST STAFF

Posted on 11/16/2005 10:45:43 AM PST by anotherview

Nov. 16, 2005 8:24 | Updated Nov. 16, 2005 19:39
New poll finds Sharon has 30% lead over Netanyahu
By GIL HOFFMAN AND JPOST STAFF

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon at Sunday's cabinet meeting.
Photo: Ariel Jerozolimski

If Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is considering whether to split the Likud and form a new party, he may want to draw his attention to a recent poll that found that he would defeat his main challenger, MK Binyamin Netanyahu, by over 30 percent.

The poll, which was commissioned by Channel 10 and conducted among Likud voters, found that nearly 49% would vote for Sharon, while only 19.4% would support Netanyahu. Rebel leader Uzi Landau received 11.7% of the vote.

Meanwhile in Wednesday's Likud faction meeting in the Knesset, Sharon said that he was unimpressed with the fervent calls for party unity from his political opponents.

Likud MKs, who have been rebelling against Sharon for more than two years, took turns giving speeches about the need for unity in the party to defeat newly elected Labor Chairman Amir Peretz. But Sharon told his associates that he expects the show of unity to end immediately after the election.

"Let's not lie to ourselves," Sharon said. "No one in the faction has changed their mind about anything because of this meeting."

Sharon's associates shrugged off the calls for harmony within the party saying that they "hadn't seen such an atmosphere of hypocrisy in the faction in a while" and that the Likud was still "far away from reconciliation." Sharon loyalist MK Roni Bar-On left the meeting early, saying that the unity speeches by Likud rebels "made me need a barf bag."

In a typical statement from the meeting, Likud rebel MK Michael Ratzon said, "There is a time for everything - a time to argue and a time to unite. This is a time to emphasize what we have in common instead of our differences and move forward together."

Many Likud MKs left the meeting upset that Sharon did not use the occasion to announce whether he intended to remain in the Likud. Sharon's associates said that he would not make a decision until next week when his advisers receive the results of polls and market research focus groups.

Internal Security Minister Gideon Ezra and Knesset Law Committee chairman Michael Eitan told Sharon in the meeting that it was unacceptable that he had not yet announced his decision. Netanyahu said without mentioning Sharon that "whoever loses the race will have to accept the democratic decision."

Vice Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that he was against a proposal in the Likud central committee to reserve the second slot on the Likud list for Netanyahu in return for him quitting the race. "We have to stop this crybaby approach of saving Bibi," he said. "Bibi is a big boy and he can run by himself."

Landau said in the meeting that the Likud should unite around its principles and ideology instead of around the prime minister. He said that there should be primaries and that he would be a candidate, but that "no matter who wins, I will stand behind the victor."

Ezra retorted bluntly, "You know you're going to lose, right, so why are you still running?"

At the end of the meeting, the faction unanimously passed a statement saying that "the faction sees the breakup of the national-unity government as an irresponsible move by Labor and its chairman. The Likud will unite against the extremist policies of Amir Peretz that endanger Israel and the economy. We will win the election and continue to lead the country.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: arielsharon; bibi; bibinetanyahu; israel; israelielections; landau; likud; likudprimary; netanyahu; newpoll; sharon; uzilandau

1 posted on 11/16/2005 10:45:46 AM PST by anotherview
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To: Salem; SJackson; Alouette

Assuming the Prime Minister remains in Likud (which now appears likely) and wins the primary, the anti-Sharon crowd here will need to decide if it really likes Amir Peretz better, because it really does appear that will be the choice.


2 posted on 11/16/2005 10:49:40 AM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

>> Rebel leader Uzi Landau <<

Not so bad, but his kid is a read sonofagun.


3 posted on 11/16/2005 10:55:30 AM PST by dangus
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To: anotherview

Well, I'm afraid what this says to me is that Sharon may have succeeded in wrecking Likud.

I hope everything works out for the best. But personally I think that Sharon, who rode in on a wave of anger against the Oslo "peace" process, the resulting Intifada, and Ehud Barak, has betrayed his party and his country.

What to do about it? I don't know. Fortunately I'm not an Israeli voter.


4 posted on 11/16/2005 10:55:51 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

You know I share neither your view of disengagement nor of the Prime Minister. There is good reason Prime Minister Sharon remains immensely popular in Israel. He is seen as a strong leader.

Ariel Sharon is a Zionist through and through. He does what he believes will bring security to Israel. I understand you don't like what he does but that does not mean he betrayed anyone.


5 posted on 11/16/2005 11:01:04 AM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

I hope you are right.


6 posted on 11/16/2005 11:02:33 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

I know I am right about the Prime Minister's motives. ABout his actions... only time will tell.

Also, please remember Israel is not a two party system. You could vote for National Union/Israel Beitanu, for example, or Mafdal (National Religious Party). Neither has any chance of winning an election, of course, but they are the voice of opposition to disengagement, any attempt at peace, any territoial concessions, and often the voice of "transfer" (forced deportation of Palestinian Arabs).


7 posted on 11/16/2005 11:07:00 AM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

..................

8 posted on 11/16/2005 11:46:23 AM PST by SJackson (People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
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To: anotherview

Binyamin Netanyahu is the best man


9 posted on 11/16/2005 12:23:51 PM PST by cope85
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To: anotherview; SJackson; yonif; Simcha7; American in Israel; Slings and Arrows; judicial meanz; ...









If you'd like to be on or off this
Christian Supporters of Israel ping list,
please FR mail me ~
  -  -
MikeFromFR ~
There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had
spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:45)

Letter To The President In Support Of Israel ~
'Final Solution,' Phase 2 ~
Warnings ~



The future of Arab controlled Gaza.

"Palestine is the wrong name for their State. It should be called Anarchy."—FReeper sgtbono2002
"Then let's wait and see what the Arabs do after they take Gaza. There's nothing like Arab reality to break up a Jewish fantasy."—FReeper Noachian
A student told his professor he was going to "Palestine" to "fight for freedom, peace and justice,"—Orwellian leftist code words that mean "murder Jews."
The Nature Of Bruce ~

10 posted on 11/16/2005 12:52:14 PM PST by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: anotherview

What a disaster. Of all people, the Israelis should know appeasement = death.


11 posted on 11/16/2005 12:54:18 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (I hate hippies - Eric Cartman)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: anotherview

Herod,-er Sharon is ahead.


14 posted on 11/16/2005 2:23:27 PM PST by Nachum
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To: cope85

Those of us who remember Netanyahu's previous performance as Prime Minister tend to disagree with you. The right has never forgiven Netanyahu for pulling out of Hebron as a result of the Wye River Accords, which he signed. He continued the Oslo peace process.

Bibi's positions change with the political winds. The whole thing over disengagement from Gaza was political opportunism. Uzi Landau, by contrast, objected based on his principles and beliefs. I'm not sure anyone knows what beliefs Bibi has.

One thing for sure: Bibi won't get my vote.


15 posted on 11/16/2005 3:20:23 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: BalancedView

I think you are right, but in 2001 it looked like Prime Minister Sharon was willing to stand up to President Bush. Certainly Prime Minister Shamir stood up to the first President Bush at the cost of a freeze in U.S. loan guarantees to Israel. I think the Prime Minister needs to stiffen up and hold firm to Israel's best interests. I think the agreement on the Gaza-Egypt border is a huge mistake.


16 posted on 11/16/2005 3:22:09 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: BalancedView

Oh, and if you want to make that bet here it'd be shekels to sufganiyot :)


17 posted on 11/16/2005 3:22:52 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: SJackson


Can you explain to me why Sharon is leading Netanyahu?


18 posted on 11/16/2005 3:24:46 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: anotherview

Israel needs to move on Iran now, he is the man


19 posted on 11/16/2005 3:25:04 PM PST by cope85
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To: onyx

IRAN will start converting 50 tonnes of uranium ore from the end of next week into the feedstock gas for making enriched uranium, a key phase in the nuclear process.

A diplomat said the Iranians have told the UN watchdog International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna that "they intend to resume full conversion work on November 26".

That would be after a crucial November 24-25 meeting of the IAEA board of governors on Tehran's nuclear program at which diplomats will consider whether to send Iran to the UN Security Council.

The announced work would be a second round of conversion. Iran has already processed 37 tonnes of ore.

Diplomats said the amount of uranium hexafluoride (UF6) gas the Iranians would have after processing 50 tonnes would be enough to make highly enriched uranium for up to 10 atomic bombs.

Iran had previously announced it would do more conversion but had not given a specific date, although it had been expected to begin the process earlier in November. The amount to be converted is also more than previously thought.

The diplomats also said reports that the UF6 is too contaminated to be put into the centrifuges that spin it into enriched uranium were wrong.

Iran is currently suspending enrichment work but "the current batch is good enough for a crash nuclear weapons program, if Iran doesn't mind ruining a lot of centrifuges along the way," a Western diplomat said.

Iran says its nuclear program is a peaceful effort to generate electricity but the United States charges that Tehran is using this to hide secret work on developing atomic weapons.


20 posted on 11/16/2005 3:27:17 PM PST by cope85
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To: cope85


All the more reason for Netanyahu, IMO.


21 posted on 11/16/2005 3:30:43 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: onyx; anotherview

Others might explain it better, but it appears the electorate prefers Sharon. I'm a supporter of unilateral withdrawl, clearly that includes Gaza, though I don't like the way it was handled at all. Clearly that wasn't what Sharon ran on in the last election. Would Bibi have been different, maybe, but as I recall he seemed to be more vocal at the end of the process than it's beginning. And Bibi obviously was a supporter of Oslo. I've no reason to doubt the love of country of either, They have the kind of accomplishments in the defence of their country our founders did. And they're both politicians. Bibi can afford to wait.


22 posted on 11/16/2005 3:30:48 PM PST by SJackson (People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
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To: onyx

its oh most to late Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said it had won 34 seats in the first phase of legislative elections, a major advance for the banned but tolerated Islamist group.


23 posted on 11/16/2005 3:33:10 PM PST by cope85
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To: SJackson


Thank you. I am still rather stunned to learn Netanyahu isn't as popular as I desire or imagined. He's such a GOOD man.


24 posted on 11/16/2005 3:33:40 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: cope85


Do you mean it's "almost too late?"


25 posted on 11/16/2005 3:35:04 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: SJackson

how many Muslim vote in Israel elections now ?


26 posted on 11/16/2005 3:35:27 PM PST by cope85
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To: onyx

thank


27 posted on 11/16/2005 3:35:48 PM PST by cope85
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To: cope85

Thank you for the information.

I am still trying to understand why Netanyahu isn't the overwhelming choice.


28 posted on 11/16/2005 3:37:36 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: cope85
how many Muslim vote in Israel elections now ?

Don't know. A little less than 20% of the population. They're educated, work for a living, and participate in society so I'd guess that's around the vote.

29 posted on 11/16/2005 3:40:54 PM PST by SJackson (People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
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To: cope85

Any adult citizen of Israel who happens to be a Muslim may vote. That includes any Muslim living in the pre-1967 borders plus any Muslim living in territory Israel annexed since then (Golan, eastern Jerusalem) who has chosen to take Israeli citizenship. Many Jerusalem Arabs haven't chosen to do so and have permanent resident status instead. They have no vote.

Currently Israel's population is 5.3 million Jews and about 1 million Muslim Arabs. I can't tell you what percentage of each group is of voting age without doing a little quick research. Considering the only reason I'm on at this hour is insomnia this isn't the best time for me to do that.


30 posted on 11/16/2005 3:41:11 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: onyx
He's such a GOOD man.

You keep saying that. What in the world do you base that statement on????

31 posted on 11/16/2005 3:42:08 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

You keep saying that.




I have said it ONCE.


32 posted on 11/16/2005 3:43:46 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: SJackson; onyx

Bibi also voted for disengagement repeatedly. Then he voted against it. Does this sound familiar in American political terms?

Put simply: Many Israelis do not trust Bibi. His politics change with whatever he thinks will help him gain power at the moment. Ariel Sharon, by contrast, has his history as a General, a man who has fought in all our wars. People trust him not to give too much in the end. People trust his judgement.

There is another factor. Prime Minister Sharon gave Likud it's biggest election victory every. Likud has never had 40 seats in the Knesset before. Netanyahu gave Likud it's biggest election defeat ever, dropping the party to just 19 seats in the previous election. Likud members want to win and Sharon is a big winner in two consecutive elections. Many Likud ministers and MKs will gladly set aside their views to insure they keep their jobs. They are politicians, after all.


33 posted on 11/16/2005 3:46:58 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: onyx

My apologies. You can cope both said it. You still haven't explained how you come to that conclusion. Is it because he's handsome? Speaks eloquently? Because of his performance as Prime Minister from 1996 to 1999? Why?


34 posted on 11/16/2005 3:48:23 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview
Many Likud ministers and MKs will gladly set aside their views to insure they keep their jobs. They are politicians, after all.

A major difference in the systems, that isn't appreciated when looking in from here. We vote for Bush or Kerry, you vote for "Republican" or "Democrat" or a multitude of alternatives who, rather than representing "wasted votes", may wield some level of influence.

35 posted on 11/16/2005 3:53:55 PM PST by SJackson (People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
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To: anotherview


You're giving me "anotherview" of Netanyahu and it's one that's new to me.

I've always liked him and admired his firm stand on terrorism. No nonsense and no minced words. I like Sharon too --- were I an Israeli, I KNOW I'd belong to the Likud Party. :)


36 posted on 11/16/2005 3:54:03 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: onyx

meant ot inclued you in the last post


37 posted on 11/16/2005 3:54:40 PM PST by SJackson (People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
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To: SJackson

Thank you. Much appreciated. I am getting a good education today, which is one reason FR is so wonderful.


38 posted on 11/16/2005 3:58:42 PM PST by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: onyx
were I an Israeli, I KNOW I'd belong to the Likud Party. :)

I am Israeli and I am a Likud member. I think any of the current candidates for party leadership are strong in their stand against terrorism.

39 posted on 11/16/2005 4:24:31 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview; onyx; SJackson

Can someone enlighten me as to how this agreement benefits Israel at all? The only concessions that are being made in this "Peace" process are being made by Israel. Why the hell do we continue down this path of appeasement of the Terrorist-inians? I am a Christian supporter of Israel and am truly dumbfounded by some of these policies. THe only conclusion I can even come close to buying is that when the Terroristinians fail, yet again, to reign in their armed groups and start becoming productive in this process, that the US and Israel can justify backing out of the process saying that they have done all they could and that the Arab League needs to take these refugees back.


40 posted on 11/17/2005 5:33:08 AM PST by unionblue83
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To: unionblue83

As I've noted on a couple other threads, if the objective is a sovereign palestinian state, peaceful not mandatory, then clearly these agreements, I presume you're speaking of the border, advance that cause.


41 posted on 11/17/2005 7:29:54 AM PST by SJackson (People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
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To: anotherview

How many times have these 2 gone head to head in elections now? It seems every time its these two....


42 posted on 11/17/2005 7:30:45 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: SJackson

Yes, the border agreement was what I was referring to. Thanks for the reply. I may be mistaken, but hasn't the objective has been a sovereign state since '47? I think the original Palestinian Mandate set aside land, 80% of which became Jordan and the other 20% for the creation of 2 states -- Israel and a state for the Arabs. I don't think that Abbas has the fortitude or the political strength to disarm the groups that are opposed to the existence of a state of Israel.


43 posted on 11/17/2005 8:05:00 AM PST by unionblue83
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To: unionblue83


In a sense. The Arab League has long rejected the concept. The West Bank and Gaza were under Jordanian and Egyptian control from 47 to 67, pending the destruction of Israel and unification as one nation. The Oslo concept established a less that sovereign state. Israel would have been responsible for defense, foreign affairs and controlled the airspace. The idea of a completely sovereign state is GWB’s. Most of the issues we’re reading about, like the borders or a West Bank-Gaza link were to have been settled in final negotiations under Oslo. Now they’re to be accomplished up front, prior to the Palestinians even embarking on their most basic pre-negotiation obligations, dismantling terror and ceasing incitement.


44 posted on 11/17/2005 10:56:41 AM PST by SJackson (People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
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To: SJackson

Thanks again for the refresher; I had forgotten that the Oslo accords had never been "finished". I do believe that a sovereign state is needed, but with Abbas' shaky grip on the security situation as well as some of his recent rhetoric, it seems further off. I don't want this to turn into another Islamic Republic(see Iran) that will feed more foreign fighters into the fledgling Iraq or continue to launch terror strikes into Israel. I understand that you cannot completely eliminate the suicide bombers.


45 posted on 11/17/2005 11:08:16 AM PST by unionblue83
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To: anotherview

Eventually Iran will destroy Israel, probably in the next 2-5 years. All it'll take is 2-5 low-tech gun style uranium bombs.

Israel will lash out and probably destroy most of the islamic world, but what will be lost is immeasurable.

The only thing that may save Israel is the fact that most islamics value Jerusalem (for false reasons of course).

Just a comment. Letting Pakistan be armed is bad enough.


46 posted on 11/17/2005 11:15:56 AM PST by Lauretij2
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To: unionblue83

I won't be surprised to see efforts to destabilize Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia emanating from Gaza for decades.


47 posted on 11/17/2005 11:16:49 AM PST by SJackson (People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
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To: SJackson

I fear you are correct, good sir.


48 posted on 11/17/2005 11:27:31 AM PST by unionblue83
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