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Seeing Mountains in Starry Clouds of Creation
NY Times ^ | November 15, 2005 | DENNIS OVERBYE

Posted on 11/18/2005 11:38:26 PM PST by neverdem

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To: phantomworker; RadioAstronomer
Thanks. But we shouldn't turn this thread into a war zone.

Rades, neat pics!

21 posted on 11/19/2005 7:36:39 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Expect no response if you're a troll, lunatic, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: Ichneumon

cre·ate (kr-t)
tr.v. cre·at·ed, cre·at·ing, cre·ates
1. To cause to exist; bring into being

As much as you would like, the word "create" means something out of nothing. In your opinion there is always something to start with.


22 posted on 11/19/2005 11:11:27 AM PST by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever
cre·ate (kr-t)
tr.v. cre·at·ed, cre·at·ing, cre·ates
1. To cause to exist; bring into being

As much as you would like, the word "create" means something out of nothing.

No, it doesn't, and not even the definition which you yourself posted says so. Learn to read. Michaelangelo created the "David" statue, but he didn't do it out of nothing, he did it out of a large chunk of rock.

Hailstones are created in thunderclouds, but not out of nothing, out of moisture that's already present in the cloud.

In both cases, the items were "caused to exist" by a sculptor and weather conditions, they were "brought into being" where they had not before (the statue wasn't there ntil it was carved, there was no hail until it coalesced and froze), but in neither case was it "out of nothing".

In your opinion there is always something to start with.

You miss my point entirely. But I've gotten used to that from you.

23 posted on 11/19/2005 12:08:15 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Ichneumon
Michaelangelo created the "David" statue, but he didn't do it out of nothing, he did it out of a large chunk of rock..

Just because the term "created" is used does not mean it was used correctly. In this case the word "made" should have been used since the statute was made out of something. It reminds me of the way the word "hero" is used. Talk about missing the point, it went "swoooosh" over you.

24 posted on 11/19/2005 1:35:40 PM PST by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever

" In this case the word "made" should have been used since the statute was made out of something."

And the form the stone took was a creation of Michaelangelo, expressing his profound admiration for the beauty of the form of Man. The David didn't exist until Michaelangelo created it.


25 posted on 11/19/2005 2:00:44 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: neverdem

Is that related to dark matter? It isn't entirely dark, but only because there are energy sources nearby and within.


26 posted on 11/19/2005 2:03:12 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Jaysun
an anxiety attack

What if the Big Bang is an illusion and the universe is infinitely old. That would cast us adrift with no anchors at all. What if the Hubble volume is such a small portion of the universe that we can't even begin to imagine the fulluniverse, or what if the universe really goes on forever in the spatial dimension so we aren't anchored that way either. Got anxiety yet? Want the old Big Bang beginning and finite universe back?

27 posted on 11/19/2005 2:07:10 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Spanaway Lori

I don't know why astronomy pictures bring out the creator myth almost every time. That piece of modern mythology is not any better than the old myths it displaced. The same feeling can be had by viewing dewdrops on a spiderweb, and without the expense.


28 posted on 11/19/2005 2:11:31 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: neverdem

Kool. Looks like a Klingon Bird of Prey materializing out of it's cloaking device.


29 posted on 11/19/2005 2:11:52 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
The David didn't exist until Michaelangelo created it.

Wrong. It was a rock before it was shaped into a statute. Like I said, creation is something out of nothing and that is where the line gets drawn between creation and evolution. Man would like to think that they create things. Makes them feel like a god.

30 posted on 11/19/2005 2:15:08 PM PST by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: Ichneumon
he did it out of a large chunk of rock

He created it long before that. The flip side of genius is communicating the creation to others. We all do considerable creating, but not many manage to communicate the creation with enough technical excellence to get others to feel the same exhilaration. We admire this piece of rock because it was made to communicate the feeling and apparently with some success. We don't admire the artist, though, because we can't know the artist and if we knew him personally we might not like him at all. We do admire the skill, but in all honesty, we probably do not feel the same exhilaration the artist intended to communicate.

31 posted on 11/19/2005 2:20:01 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: taxesareforever
Man would like to think that they create things.

We do, though. Plenty of what we create has no material basis at all. Just look at what the House did last night.

32 posted on 11/19/2005 2:22:24 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: mrsmith

That's what THEY would have you believe. It just LOOKS like one! ;)


33 posted on 11/19/2005 2:27:08 PM PST by geopyg (Ever Vigilant, Never Fearful)
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To: RightWhale
Is that related to dark matter?

No. In cosmology, dark matter consists of matter particles that cannot be detected by their emitted radiation but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter such as stars and galaxies. Estimates of the amount of matter in the galaxies, based on gravitational effects, consistently suggest that there is far more matter than is directly observable. In addition, the existence of dark matter resolves a number of inconsistencies in the Big Bang theory, and is crucial for structure formation.

The Spitzer Space Telescope makes an infrared(electromagnetic) image from emitted radiation.

34 posted on 11/19/2005 2:53:07 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: RightWhale

LOL


35 posted on 11/19/2005 2:54:13 PM PST by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: sagar

Sagar,
Sorry, science can't explain the beginning of the universe - starting with nothing. Nor can they replicate the creation of life.
best,
ampu


36 posted on 11/19/2005 2:56:54 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (outside a good dog, a book is your best friend. inside a dog it's too dark to read)
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To: taxesareforever
"Wrong. It was a rock before it was shaped into a statute."

And that rock had no shape resembling the David. The David was a creation of Michaelangelo.

"Like I said, creation is something out of nothing and that is where the line gets drawn between creation and evolution."

That is your redefinition of creation. And it is wrong.

"Man would like to think that they create things. Makes them feel like a god."

And people like you would like to think that Man is incapable of creating things. Makes them feel better about their own personal inability to create.
37 posted on 11/19/2005 3:52:09 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
And people like you would like to think that Man is incapable of creating things. Makes them feel better about their own personal inability to create.

Unlike you I have no problem admitting my inability to do what only God can and has done. And yes, I feel real good about that.

38 posted on 11/19/2005 5:06:51 PM PST by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: taxesareforever
"Unlike you I have no problem admitting my inability to do what only God can and has done. And yes, I feel real good about that."

You need to stop projecting your inadequacies on others. I am capable of creating.
39 posted on 11/19/2005 5:11:31 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
You need to stop projecting your inadequacies on others. I am capable of creating.

Suit yourself. I am sure that your feeling of superiority builds up your ego and others may just be thriving on your creative abilities.

40 posted on 11/19/2005 5:39:29 PM PST by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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