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Cops could check traffic stops for concealed carry permits
WBAY TV 2 ^ | 11-30-2005 | WBAY TV 2

Posted on 11/30/2005 10:01:39 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist

MADISON, Wis. One of law enforcement's biggest objections to allowing people to carry concealed weapons may have been overcome.

Sponsors of a Republican concealed-carry bill say they've reached a compromise with police groups. An amendment would allow officers on the road to run checks on cars they stop, to see if the owner has a permit to pack a weapon.

Casey Perry is executive director of the Wisconsin Troopers Association. He says the change would protect both people in the car and officers on the approach.

The bill's creators have insisted the list of permit holders remain secret to ensure criminals don't prey on people who aren't carrying.

Perry says under the amendment, any officer caught running registrations excessively to find out who has permits would be charged with a misdemeanor.

Melanie Fonder is a spokeswoman for Governor Doyle. She says Doyle still won't sign the bill.

He vetoed a previous concealed carry bill that cleared the Legislature.

Authors of the bill plan a news conference with police representatives tomorrow to give details of the amendment.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: banglist; bradywatch; concealedcarry; cops; doyle; fourthamendment; fouthamendment; secondamendment; trojanhorse; wisconsin
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Gutless, feckless Republicans in the Wisconsin Legislature have again caved to Governor Doyle. There is absolutely no need for any police officers to run background checks on concealed-carry permit holders, and will do nothing in terms of combating crime.

I'm actually hoping that Doyle vetoes this bill.

1 posted on 11/30/2005 10:01:41 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Here in Texas, you MUST hand over your CC permit along with license when stopped.
2 posted on 11/30/2005 10:05:04 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

They're doing it in MN.

Carry and break no laws.

It's working.

I'm not entirely happy with it, but it's working.


3 posted on 11/30/2005 10:05:46 PM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Well, that's some BS. On the other hand, it's my understanding that WI is one of the few states that currently doesn't permit 2nd Amendment rights under any circumstances. If that's correct, maybe a compromise (with evil) is better than the alternative?


4 posted on 11/30/2005 10:05:54 PM PST by Turbopilot (Nothing in the above post is or should be construed as legal research, analysis, or advice.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
I'm actually hoping that Doyle vetoes this bill.

Actually, the article states that the compromise was made to get the police groups on their side. Doyle has constantly said that he will veto this bill. But hopefully this time around the legislature will have enough votes to override Doyle's veto.

5 posted on 11/30/2005 10:06:50 PM PST by ozoneliar ("The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants" -T.J.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
Here in Texas, you MUST hand over your CC permit along with license when stopped.

Why? If criminals are stopped, they don't hand over permits, because they're fricking criminals. Why should law-abiding citizens do the same? What is the police afraid of?

6 posted on 11/30/2005 10:07:15 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (JOE WILSON IS A MUTHAFAKING LIAR)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
any officer caught running registrations excessively to find out who has permits would be charged with a misdemeanor.

Uh huh. Sure.
7 posted on 11/30/2005 10:07:42 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: Turbopilot
If that's correct, maybe a compromise (with evil) is better than the alternative?

Sorry, gun rights are non-negotiable.

8 posted on 11/30/2005 10:08:15 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (JOE WILSON IS A MUTHAFAKING LIAR)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Why don't they pass a law to see if you're a legal citizen or have a permit to be here?!?

Gutless wonders...


9 posted on 11/30/2005 10:08:28 PM PST by WKUHilltopper
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
It's just so they know that you are allowed to carry. No need to call in anything since they have your ID & CC permit. It's no big deal IMO. I think it is a better solution than running permit checks during a stop. That seems like a waste of time and resources.
10 posted on 11/30/2005 10:09:21 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: ozoneliar
Doyle has constantly said that he will veto this bill.

Per the article, Doyle is going to veto it anyway. And I'm glad - because Republicans in the Legislature need to grow a spine and introduce a real CCW bill.

11 posted on 11/30/2005 10:09:50 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (JOE WILSON IS A MUTHAFAKING LIAR)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

In MN, if the LEO asks if you are holdin' you must answer correctly.

I have no problem with that. As a law-abiding-citizen.


12 posted on 11/30/2005 10:10:03 PM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo
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To: Texas_Jarhead
I don't blame LEOs for wanting to know as soon as possible that you have a firearm with you.
13 posted on 11/30/2005 10:10:24 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Check all you want, but there is no law that requires anyone to drive a car they own. Set up an LLC (preferably in another state) and the cops will be as clueless as if you were a crook with a gun and no permit.

Any cop afraid of an armed law-abiding citizen should not be on the job.


14 posted on 11/30/2005 10:10:53 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: festus
Reporter took a flying leap of faith. It should read:

any officer caught running registrations excessively to find out who has permits would be chargeable with a misdemeanor.

15 posted on 11/30/2005 10:11:02 PM PST by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

I just think it's redundant, IMO. People are just nosy.


16 posted on 11/30/2005 10:11:41 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (JOE WILSON IS A MUTHAFAKING LIAR)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

Perfectly acceptable.


17 posted on 11/30/2005 10:12:03 PM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo
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To: Texas_Jarhead

It's just so they know that you are allowed to carry.



It would make more sense to run background checks on every drivers license applicant, and have a special flag for those who are criminals, and NOT allowed to carry. Why should the cops care who is carrying, among law-abiding citizens?


18 posted on 11/30/2005 10:12:47 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
"Here in Texas, you MUST hand over your CC permit along with license when stopped."

Even if your not caring?

In Idaho, it comes up on their computer if you have a permit, but they just ask you if your carrying. (that's what I've heard anyway, I haven't been pulled over in more than 20 years...)
19 posted on 11/30/2005 10:14:11 PM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

Why is it any of the cop's business, any more than it is that of the shopkeeper, bartender, priest, or pal I encounter while carrying?


20 posted on 11/30/2005 10:14:14 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Well its like in OH. The key isn't winning over Doyle, its winning over a few crossover Democratic votes in an override. Live with some restrictions now and relax them down the road.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

21 posted on 11/30/2005 10:17:35 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Beelzebubba
"Any cop afraid of an armed law-abiding citizen should not be on the job."

I would guess that it's just the opposite with cops. The fact that I have a permit, tells them I'm not a crazy. (so they think!)
22 posted on 11/30/2005 10:19:57 PM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
He says the change would protect both people in the car and officers on the approach

What do police have to fear from responsible law abiding gun owners? Now, what responsible, law abiding gun owners have to fear from police, that could be another discussion.

23 posted on 11/30/2005 10:20:29 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Beelzebubba
I can understand if the cops want to snoop. In IL it's common practice to ask, "Got anything in the car you shouldn't have?" Of course the idiots say, "sure, some dope and a glock right under the seat officer." The brighter ones say, "No. And no I don't consent to you sniffing around my car, because you don't trust what I just said."
24 posted on 11/30/2005 10:21:15 PM PST by endthematrix (Those who despise freedom and progress have condemned themselves to isolation, decline, and collapse)
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To: goldstategop
"But he (Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau Claire) said he hopes the amendments might persuade Doyle to sign the bill. If not, they should improve the chances of the Legislature overriding a veto, he said. Some of the changes could be removed later, he added. "When it does become law, we'll tinker with it," Zien said.

Concealed Weapons Bills Edges Closer

Well, you might be right after all. But you know how politicians are. Once something's in place it'll remain there longer than the half-lives of spent nuclear fuel.

25 posted on 11/30/2005 10:23:27 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (JOE WILSON IS A MUTHAFAKING LIAR)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

"There is absolutely no need for any police officers to run background checks on concealed-carry permit holders"

They won't be running background checks on CCW holders. This just allows them to see if the person the vehicle is registered to has a CCW permit.

It's a feel good / do nothing amendment, designed to gain political support. There's no telling when you run a tag before you approach if the owner is the one driving. Or if it's a criminal who's stolen the car and it hasn't been reported yet.

It does nothing for officer safety, but it keeps a couple of police groups from objecting to the bill, which makes it more likely the veto would be overturned.

"I'm actually hoping that Doyle vetoes this bill."

Well, he will. But are you hoping the veto is upheld? That would be foolish.

The concealed carry bill sucks. Too much training time, too many restrictions.

However, it's better than what wisconsin has now.

Likely it will be vetoed, which will be fodder for 2006. But adding something like this makes an override of that veto more likely.

Once it gets passed, and there's a republican governor in place, restrictions can be removed and training time can be lowered to something that isn't so ridiculous. But you need to get the foot in the door first, so they can come back and say "we've had CCW for a year and it's been great, now we need to improve it".

If you want a perfect bill, there's no chance your going to get it at this time.


26 posted on 11/30/2005 10:34:41 PM PST by flashbunny (To err is human. But to really screw something up, have the government try to fix it.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"What is the police afraid of?"

And what grade is you in, EEE?

27 posted on 11/30/2005 10:36:29 PM PST by de Buillion (The Fat Turd from MA is an Enemy, domestic.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"Once something's in place it'll remain there longer than the half-lives of spent nuclear fuel."

Have you even paid attention to how the CCW fight has gone in other states?

They passed compromise laws to get it signed. After awhile, they start chipping away at the restrictions and requirements, because they have in-state evidence that it's working and there's no danger in allowing CCW. So they allow carrying in more places, lower some requirements, maybe lower fees or extend permit time, and in the case of alaska, made the need to get a CCW permit unnecessary.
28 posted on 11/30/2005 10:36:58 PM PST by flashbunny (To err is human. But to really screw something up, have the government try to fix it.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
Here in Texas, you MUST hand over your CC permit along with license when stopped.

Here is CA, we are not required to mention we have a CCW. In fact we are told not to mention it because this saves problems with cops going paranoid over our having a permit. I guess CA is not as oppressed as some other states, such as Texas and WI.

29 posted on 11/30/2005 10:37:58 PM PST by calex59 (Seeing the light shouldn't make you blind...)
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To: Beelzebubba
Any cop afraid of an armed law-abiding citizen should not be on the job.

I agree.

Usually those objecting are Police Chiefs, or upper level management, most of the guys on the streets don't object to law-abiding citizens carrying guns.

30 posted on 11/30/2005 10:39:52 PM PST by c-b 1
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Oh, great.....coming to Oregon soon, I'm sure.....where you're not allowed to Carry if you don't have a CARRY PERMIT in THEIR STATE! (We live in WA and have permits here, but go to Oregon often.....carrying.)


31 posted on 11/30/2005 10:40:54 PM PST by goodnesswins (I'll fight a war in my time......so my grandchildren have peace in theirs.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

"I don't blame LEOs for wanting to know as soon as possible that you have a firearm with you."

However, this is meaningless, because every cop should approach every traffic stop as though the occupants of the car are armed.

The people they need to worry about aren't going to be listed on any database.


32 posted on 11/30/2005 10:41:07 PM PST by flashbunny (To err is human. But to really screw something up, have the government try to fix it.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
In Mississippi it is legal to carry a firearm/handgun without a permit. LEO assume everyone they stop has a weapon immediately and are careful at all stops. LEO's should assume all are armed that they stop because if they become complacent and careless, they will put their lives in peril when they do encounter a criminal.

Every law abiding American citizen should have the legal right to carry a defense handgun without any government encumbrance.

33 posted on 11/30/2005 10:41:26 PM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

LEOs have NOTHING to fear from armed, law-abiding citizens.

However, it IS nice to know that the guy you just pulled over is packing - but there is no need to run a check on every vehicle you pull over.

When I get pulled over by a fellow LEO (it happens fairly regularly; I have a heavy foot), I roll down the window, put both hands on the window ledge and announce that I have a concealed firearm. I then go on to state that I have a CCW and am a member of LE.

Forewarned is forearmed.


34 posted on 11/30/2005 10:43:33 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: babygene
Here in Texas, if you have a gun with you and you're pulled over, you're required to notify the officer that you have one. You don't and you can lose the license to carry.

To the best of my knowledge, you don't have to hand your CCL over if you're not carrying, BUT...it will come up on the system when they check your DL and they'll probably come back and ask if you have a handgun with you. So it actually cuts down on the awkardness to go ahead and give it to 'em.

I've had a couple of tickets since I got my CCL, once when I had a pistol in the car and once not, and it wasn't a problem either time.

35 posted on 11/30/2005 10:44:03 PM PST by Chasaway (Note to self: Remember to change your tagline!)
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To: babygene

Rank-and-file LEOs have no fear of armed, law-abiding citizens.


36 posted on 11/30/2005 10:45:45 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: de Buillion
And what grade is you in, EEE?

Excuse me? What grade is I'm in?

Do your parents know you're on the computer?

37 posted on 11/30/2005 10:50:07 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (JOE WILSON IS A MUTHAFAKING LIAR)
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To: flashbunny
Have you even paid attention to how the CCW fight has gone in other states?

I admit that I haven't and concede that I jumped the gun (pun intended) a little.

38 posted on 11/30/2005 10:51:19 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (JOE WILSON IS A MUTHAFAKING LIAR)
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To: calex59
In fact we are told not to mention it because this saves problems with cops going paranoid over our having a permit. I guess CA is not as oppressed as some other states, such as Texas and WI.

Actually, I think CA is more oppressed if the police get paranoid about a "mere citizen" legally having a gun. In a freer state, most police are not shocked (as if it is something unusual) if a citizen legally carries a gun. In the People's Republic of California, many people have been conditioned to believe that it is unthinkable that a peon should own a gun, much less legally carry one.

39 posted on 11/30/2005 11:58:37 PM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
Mine is visible right behind my ND Driver's license in my wallet. As a practical consideration, it lets the police here know you've been vetted through the State Dept. of Criminal Investigation. You are officially "one of the good guys".

A polite demeanor and being on a first name with all the police does not hurt (His/her first name is "Officer").

The results sure beat having a BS attitude.

Of course, I really haven't been pulled over here for chickencrap, on rare occasions it is just for going faster than the sign says (back when the limit was 55 instead of 70)

40 posted on 12/01/2005 12:16:05 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: calex59

No, your cops are more paranoid.


41 posted on 12/01/2005 12:20:49 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

I have never seen any statistics of action against police by drivers of cars who are stopped and have a concealed weapons permit. Maybe that is because the statistics are rare. Why else aren't they used?


42 posted on 12/01/2005 12:28:50 AM PST by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

And when the officer does find a permit, then what?


43 posted on 12/01/2005 3:05:02 AM PST by shekkian
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Here in Virginia, when an officer runs your tags he is notified if the owner of the car has a Va resident concealed carry permit. I have only been stopped twice (one expired tag and one equipment violation) since getting my CC permit, and have been treated very courteously by both officers, receiving only a warning each time. From what I have read at packing.org that most of the Virginians that posted LEO encounters in VA had similar outcomes.

Granted Virginia is a lot more gun friendly than WI, but I don't see this as a show stopper. If you don't like the bill I would say take it, and work on getting it changed during subsequent legislative sessions. That is how we do it here and have been quite sucessful at it.

Also, if you do not have a state Conceal Carry lobbying group like the VCDL here in Virginia, I suggest it is past time to get one organized.

44 posted on 12/01/2005 3:29:48 AM PST by P8riot (When they come for your guns, give them the bullets first.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
...in Texas, you MUST hand over your CC permit along with license when stopped.

In 1985 I was stopped on Westbound I-10 just 40 miles outside of San Antonio. The graying, statuesque officer told me as long as I slowed down within 50 miles of the city I wouldn't have much of a problem with him. I had out of state plates and was going close to 90 m.p.h.

He ran a plate and warrant check on my Michigan drivers' license.

He asked me if I had a firearm in my pickup and I said I did under the seat. I was instructed to exit the vehicle, was politely escorted to sit in the back of the patrol car. He retrieved my weapon, inspected it, looked around the inside of the cab, released me and returned it to me. He told me just to leave it lying on the seat next to me in the holster.

I stood there waiting for him to start writing a citation and he looked me in the eye and said ‘what are you waiting for, you can go now.’ Off I went, no ticket, no hassle... and a great appreciation for the state of Texas...

45 posted on 12/01/2005 3:39:26 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Wilhelm Tell


You've got it wrong. We don't have to show, not because the cops are all that paranoid, but because that is the state law. I was only kidding about the cops getting hyper if they found out. In this state it is not the cops business if we are carrying or not. This is one of very few good gun laws on the books.


46 posted on 12/01/2005 4:12:30 AM PST by calex59 (Seeing the light shouldn't make you blind...)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1531396/posts

Cross-linking.

47 posted on 12/01/2005 4:30:09 AM PST by Ladysmith ((NRA, SAS) Support Zien's PPA/CCW bill in Wisconsin.)
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To: flashbunny
They passed compromise laws to get it signed. After awhile, they start chipping away at the restrictions and requirements, because they have in-state evidence that it's working and there's no danger in allowing CCW...

IIRC, Arizona recently became more liberal with their CCW laws because it's proving to be a successful law. Can't remember what the changes were, though... Need my morning coffee.

48 posted on 12/01/2005 4:39:16 AM PST by Ladysmith ((NRA, SAS) Support Zien's PPA/CCW bill in Wisconsin.)
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To: flashbunny; Extremely Extreme Extremist
Timing is everything this morning. Someone else posted this on another thread. It wasn't Arizona, it was New Mexico. :o)

http://www.scsun-news.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051130/NEWS01/511300314/-1/SILVERCITY

49 posted on 12/01/2005 5:24:35 AM PST by Ladysmith ((NRA, SAS) Support Zien's PPA/CCW bill in Wisconsin.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist; Texas_Jarhead
Here in Texas, you MUST hand over your CC permit along with license when stopped.

Why? If criminals are stopped, they don't hand over permits, because they're fricking criminals. Why should law-abiding citizens do the same? What is the police afraid of?

The one time I had to show my TX CHL (I was rear-ended in traffic) the cop said, "I don't care about that."

50 posted on 12/01/2005 5:25:50 AM PST by CPOSharky (Taxation WITH representation kinda sucks too.)
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