Posted on 12/13/2005 10:46:42 PM PST by Congressman Billybob
On Special Report with Brit Hume on Fox News, 13 December, 2005, Senator Joe Biden (D, Delaware) said the following in reply to President Bush’s third policy speech on Iraq in Philadelphia yesterday:
“Failure to get a consensus constitution spells doom for our policy in Iraq. So what is the plan, Mr. President? That is still lacking.”
After saying that means participation by the UN, NATO, and Iraq’s neighbors, Biden added:
“If this time next year nothing has changed concerning in terms of our success rate, we will be out of Iraq. The American people will not sustain this.”
The transcript of this is not up yet, but these quotes are TiVo’ed and accurate.
The full answer to these historically foolish statements by Senator Biden were given by President Bush in the first ten minutes of his speech in Philadelphia, on Monday. Bush began by recounting the history of America writing its own Constitution. He took time to note that our first attempt to draft an acceptable constitution was an abject failure. Under the Articles of Confederation, our government failed financially, and there were armed rebellions in the streets.
As the President carefully pointed out, it took us “eight years to write our Constitution.” The Battle of Yorktown effectively ended the American Revolution in 1781. It was not until 1789 that our Constitution was both written and ratified, to replace the Articles of Confederation, which had failed.
So the first historical nonsense stated by Senator Biden was that the American people will not “sustain” more than a one-year wait to obtain workable constitution.
But the worse error in Senator Biden’s remarks, as compared to America’s own constitutional history, was his claim that to be successful, Iraq had to write a “consensus constitution,” acceptable to its neighbors. Is the Senator totally ignorant of recent history? Money, fighters and weapons are leaking into Iraq across its borders with Iran and Syria. Just today, Americans captured a tanker truck that came in from Iran which concealed thousands of forged ballots for the current Iraq election.
What kind of constitution would Iraq have, if its neighbors who want it to fail, had any kind of approval rights over it? None.
The same answer comes from American history. What kind of Constitution would we have written and ratified if it had to be by “consensus” with our neighbors? Our neighbors were then Britain, which still controlled Canada, and France, which still controlled the Louisiana Territory. We, too, would have never achieved our Constitution, under conditions like those that Senator Biden said are essential.
But Americans in reading or watching the news would be totally unaware of the American history which demonstrates that Senator Biden’s remarks are foolish, from the MSM coverage of Bush’s speech. Only 6 of the 128 hits from “Articles of Confederation” on Google News are news stories. Most of the rest are the full text of the Bush speech. Most Americans don’t read the whole text of speeches, nor watch them live in full on TV.
The simple fact is that the MSM, because they are lazy, foolish or biased, buried the lede. The important comparison between American and Iraqi constitution writing, including initial and major failures, was edited out of almost all news stories about that speech. So, the comparison which demonstrated in advance that Senator Biden’s remarks are downright foolish, wasn’t presented.
Contrary to the way that history is (mis)taught in American schools today, history did not begin yesterday. The history of America’s constitution writing is directly relevant to the current history of Iraq’s similar efforts today. And these facts were presented by the President, but largely ignored by the MSM.
John_Armor@aya.yale.edu
They do not call him Slow Joe Biden for nothing. The inside the Beltway thinking that Biden is the Democrat Senate's "intellectual powerhouse" demonstrates just how empty the Democrat Leadership currently is of anyone with any real political talent or intellectual ability. Must really suck to be a Democrat these days when THAT rapidly aging double digit IQ Dinosaur is the best your party can put up as a spokesperson.
The Continental Congress, the Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution. Seems we too are on our "third" founding as well BB.
Really sad how childish so many elderly Americans, such as billbears, are clinging so desperately to their delusions about Iraq. They seem despeate to avoid the reality that it is the same failed ideology of the "Realists", like billbears, which created this Islamic Fundamentalist mess to start with
Really sad that certain Freepers lack the emotional or intellectual ability to admit how grotesquely wrong their Neo-Isolationist dogma is in a post 9-11 world. Sorry but the bad men are not going to go way just cause YOU want to hide under your bed and wish them away BB.
Indeed they did. But they also had 500 years of democratization to build on. It was within their culture and had been growing for close to half a millenium. Care to tell us what the Muslim community was doing 500 years ago? Being that history is so relevant, I would look to their past to see if they are ready for a Republic. As there are few if any Muslim writers praising the aspects of democracy in the past 500 years, one may question whether or not it will work, or even if they want it to work. BTW, how many Muslim run nations are Republics, Democracies, or any form of Western government again? Out of how many?
Were they wrong to do that? Or, are you wrong to ignore George Santayana's caution, "Those who forget their history are condemned to repeat it"?
Alas, I am not the one ignoring. Rather the past 100 years of history in Iraq could have taught us, westernization in several forms has been tried, and failed. But carry on. They will be a theocracy within a generation
If you want more recent history that even you could not decry as irrelevant, look at the "nation-building" which General MacArthur in Japan and General Eisenhower in Germany, after WW II. Germany is especially relevant, in light of the assassinations and sabotage that the werewolves carried out for years after being created by the Nazis to do exactly that, after the end of the war in Europe.
Simply sad. You paraphrased Santanyana's statement and yet you yourself forget both Japan and Germany had started, and had a working form of, republican government before intervention by these United States and prior to WWII. Also you are missing that aspect of religion controlling one's whole life in both nations.
You know I do believe you are an idiot. I'm sorry but at no point did I say that nor did I insinuate it. My point was that the culture of Western nations, England in particular, and political actions within said nations brought about a very slow move toward republican government. A move that began with the Magna Carta and peaked at the time of the American Revolution. Tell us, since you claim such a knowledge of history. What has been the culture of the Islamic nations for the past 500 years? The Iraqis may get it. However it won't be next week, next month, or next year. It won't be in the next decade either. If their form of government is still holding in a generation, I would hold out a small hope for it. Of course the last time popular government was introduced in Iraq, it took less than a generation for it to be overrun
And under your theory, there is no possible explanation of the students who demonstrated and died in Tienanmen Square in China. After all, those demonstrators were all raised from birth, aggressively, as communists. And yet, they put up a replica of the Statue of Liberty, and quoted liberally from Thomas Jefferson.
By that argument, if we're to believe your simplistic version of the world, the English monarchy should have come crashing down once Locke's writings were released in the 1690s. It takes decades, if not centuries of lone voices, sometimes small groups, not only quoting past dissidents, but living (and dying) towards an ideal of a Republic. Of course history shows us this. And since you have 'learned' from history, you should know this.
China will eventually fall. Not from outside influences but because of the people within the nation. Of course again they don't have to tell with the rigors of Islam, which will help.
You reject the idea that a new generation in any nation can choose a radically different political path than their parents. I'm sorry you have such a benighted view of the capacity of human beings to change.
In no fashion at all. I am just not as naive to believe the Iraqis, or any nation for that matter, will wake up overnight and understand the importance of having a Republic.
But do carry on Oliver. It only took the English 10 years to run back to a monarchy, the only question in the minds of the realists is how long will it take for Iraq to return to a theocracy. Of course I suppose if it's popularly elected you'll have no problem with it?
I also notice for some reason you chose not to address the historical references refuting your tired talking points. Perhaps in your next post you could do something about that, although I doubt it.
I do hope Iraq eventually becomes a Republic, not a democracy. I don't hold much hope for it, especially after speaking to several friends who have returned from Iraq in the past few weeks. If they do eventually morph into one, it will not be because of US involvement but because the Iraqis choose it. The best possible solution would be to split the region into three parts. One for the Kurds, one for the Sunnis, and one for the Shiites. And that very well may eventually happen on it's own. Everything else instituted in that nation by Western countries in the past century has fallen apart, why shouldn't that too?
On a different note, Congressman, all that time to dig into Judge Alito doesn't seem to have resulted in much fodder for the Borkers, has it? Tough to assassinate the character of a good man during the Christmas Season I think.
Nevertheless, we all need to bundle up, go outside every week or so and make sure the powder is still dry and the barrels well-greased. I don't like to get cocky, but I'm feeling like General Lee at Fredericksburg knowing that idiot Burnside is about to attack our well-entrenched lines. (Although, to be fair, I think Burnside was a better strategerist than Biden).
Better examples would be Germany and Japan. These were two countries with no real democratic heritage at the time we conquered them in 1945. (In Japan's case, it had been in the Middle Ages until 1854). Lots of people thought neither of those countries could develop free, democratic systems either; one swift boot to ass from the USA cured that nonsense.
" Just today, Americans captured a tanker truck that came in from Iran which concealed thousands of forged ballots for the current Iraq election."
This story, which appeared in the New York Times this morning, is apparently false. Reuters says that it could find no confirmation and statements from the Iraq Border Police said the border has been closed since Tuesday and no trucks have been allowed through. U.S. military represenative said there are safeguards against the use of forged ballots and use of a large number would be caught.
My info came from Rush's show this morning..
Of course no popular elections throughout the 1920s or even in 1933 in Germany was there? Germany and Japan both had working, albeit limited, democracies before WWII. And look what it brought the Germans. Yes, rah-rah, democracy..
Hmmm. Just when I was settling on the moniker "Defeatocrats" Biden throws me. Now I have to consider "DOOMocrats".
Those aren't Senators. In any case... [throws down Patty Murray high; rakes pot]
Had we remained engaged after WWI, we would likely have avoid the holocaust of WWII.
And as far as "democracy" in Japan before WWII -- you've got to be kidding. The Army ran the country, not the civilian government. That was a legacy of the "Shogun" era in Japan -- the country modernized, but the Army still called the shots. Only the victory of the United States changed that.
I'll see your Murray and raise a Kucinich (who gets extra points for having been a Presidential Candidate). Fortunately, Carol Mostly-Fraud is out of Congress and doesn't qualify.
-PJ
I seem to remember back in the mists of time, being taught that during the time of *our* revolution against tghe
British crown, that those actively seeking independance
from King George, was only about 33% of the European
settlers, about another 30% were Tories, favoring
British Rule, and the rest were indifferent, or so
deep in the "woods", that they were basicly unaware
or unab\le to do anything about it, beyond a
conversation around a campfire, if they even got
some news that was less than a month or two old.
And far more Americans than 29% now think things are headed in the wrong direction, though god knows why.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Because, all the lying rats on ABC, CBS, NBC. and CNN
keep up a constant stream of *lies*, lies of omissission,
lies of exaggeration, lies of slant, lies of dimunition..
whatever lies and spin that they can, to make it look like
Bush and the Republicans are the liars, and not *them*.
But they no longer have the communistic lock on all
forms of communication and news outlets. They can no
longer get away with all their DemoSocialist pervert Cultutre of Death propaganda, unchallenged, and
unexposed as the feak rat craven traitor souless liars
they are. But they are doing their worst..hoping against hope...as they allways do...
The Democrat Party: "Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here!"
Gee, Congressman Billybob, who did Sen. Biden plagarize to come up with this line of hooey? I think he needs some more brain surgery to fix his optic nerves as it must be hooked up to his rectal nerves and that is why he has such a crappy outlook on what is really going on in Iraq! His comments show he ain't no rocket scientest, in fact he doesn't understand anything from a historical point of view. Typical dimorat, and a poor example of what a Senator should be.
Bogus story. Didn't happen according to the Iraqi government. Undermines the rest of your piece.
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