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Creation evangelist derides evolution as ‘dumbest’ theory [Kent Hovind Alert!]
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Post ^ | 17 December 2005 | Kayla Bunge

Posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:48 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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To: Senator Bedfellow
LOL. This is how Hovind makes a living - he doesn't speak for free. If you look up his tax lien (available here in PDF format) and then work the tax tables backwards (Hovind is married, right?), you realize that the IRS is calculating his 1995 income at about $430,000, 1996 at about $365,000, and 1997 at around $750,000.

It makes you wonder what must have happened to Hovind's income since the internet got really BIG. Look at how the incomes of other internet operations have rocketed...

51 posted on 12/17/2005 6:56:42 AM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: bobdsmith
Of course there is evidence for that,

There is pure CONJECTURE for that and you know it and to assert otherwise is being totally dishonest.

This is a perfect example of evolutionist trying to make something factual which is not!
Holy Moly, I put up a laughable conjecturous theme up in the air and you're going to try to turn it into a fact? And you evolutionist wonder why people don't believe your B.S.?

52 posted on 12/17/2005 6:57:14 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: shuckmaster

Well, we don't know how much is donations versus speaking fees, but other than that, pretty much :)


53 posted on 12/17/2005 6:59:23 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: sirchtruth
And you evolutionist wonder why people don't believe your B.S.?

I've found the usual reason to be a complete lack of interest in the evidence, and a complete lack of interest in "searching for the truth".

54 posted on 12/17/2005 6:59:57 AM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: sirchtruth
There is pure CONJECTURE for that and you know it and to assert otherwise is being totally dishonest.

Nope sorry, the idea that the grand canyon was created in 30 minutes (or seconds, or hours) is pure CONJECTURE. Anything that is based on at least some evidence is better than such conjecture.

55 posted on 12/17/2005 7:01:36 AM PST by bobdsmith
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To: Thatcherite
Look at how the incomes of other internet operations have rocketed...

True. And I probably omitted his largest source of income from my last post, his book and video sales. I would hazard that being able to sell directly on the internet has caused his income on that front to go through the roof. The conclusion is obvious - we're in the wrong line of work, my friend...

56 posted on 12/17/2005 7:02:55 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: bobdsmith
Nope sorry, the idea that the grand canyon was created in 30 minutes (or seconds, or hours) is pure CONJECTURE.

You give it too much credit. I would classify it either as delusion or fantasy, on a par with any folly that includes Xenu as a causative agent somewhere within its line of reasoning.

57 posted on 12/17/2005 7:05:29 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
The peppered moth is a fine example of natural selection in action. There is nothing wrong wrong with using it.

What Hovind exposes is the fact that believers in the religion of evolutionist theory GLUED the moths to trees to try and support their "thoery."

Needless to say, after the evolutionist got through pasting the moths to tress, they were still moths.

Yeah Kent for exposing the ignorant people behind evolution!!!

58 posted on 12/17/2005 7:13:41 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: AntiScumbag

If you think the IRS waits a year and a half to indict people, you will be quite happy believing the fairty tale of evolution.

BTW, the IRS has tried the same tactic with Kent before and they ended up apologizing and returning his cars.


59 posted on 12/17/2005 7:15:42 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: peyton randolph; PatrickHenry

Man, you are really showing your ignorance!!!

Dr. Hovind is not a part of the Bible Believers Bookshop. And he makes very little money off the materials he produces because he does not copyright them. He allows people to copy them and do with them what they will.

He has some excellent materials at a great price. But he never tries to charge people more than what they are worth and if you called him today and told him you needed something and could not afford it, he would give it away to you for free.

I have personally seen him do that.

So stop trying to malign the guy and get your facts straight before you post lies about the man on a public forum.


60 posted on 12/17/2005 7:19:43 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: PatrickHenry

Boy, they just get wierder and wierder. This guy basicly says he doesn't give a damn what facts and reason say.

The one that has always dropped my jaw has been the one about the Grand Canyon and the Great Flood. This guy's statements about the Great Flood prove the old adage that you can't win an argument with a fool. Of course, the fool never realizes he is a fool so he just wouldn't understand why 3,000 scientists won't debate him.


61 posted on 12/17/2005 7:24:05 AM PST by DaGman
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To: Full Court
"What Hovind exposes is the fact that believers in the religion of evolutionist theory GLUED the moths to trees to try and support their "thoery.""

No, that is not what happened. It was only in a few pictures that this was done, and only to have two moths shown together, a light and a dark one side by side for contrast. This would probably never happen in nature, but was necessary for the comparison. The rest of the pictures were of single moths that were photographed on tree trunks; these were not *glued* there. They were photographed in the wild as is. Creationists who use this in an effort to discredit the studies are woefully ignorant about how nature photography works.

" Needless to say, after the evolutionist got through pasting the moths to tress, they were still moths."

Since nobody was saying the study was an example of speciation, what is your point?

" Yeah Kent for exposing the ignorant people behind evolution!!!"

How many of his videos did he sucker you into buying? :)
62 posted on 12/17/2005 7:24:48 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: shuckmaster; Senator Bedfellow; AntiScumbag

Where do you get the idea that Hovind is fleecing people to the tune of millions of dollars???

That is totally ludicrious!!!

He produces materials that people are free to buy or not buy. He never goes to speak at any church without being invited and he does not charge churches to come.

Before you go around lying about the guy and making yourself look like an idiot, you ought to get a few facts.


63 posted on 12/17/2005 7:26:49 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: DaGman

No way is Kent Hovind a fool. He is a rich man, who got that way by exploiting the gullibility of fundamentalist Christians, and telling them what they want to hear. A very clever charlatan who makes use of the "one born every minute".


64 posted on 12/17/2005 7:28:30 AM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: AntiScumbag
They love his tax-exempt theme park!

Now aren't you really showing your ignorance. The "theme park" is a hands on kids activity place in the back yard of his home. Any admission feee (which I think is 5 dollars) goes to support the missionaries that work there.

65 posted on 12/17/2005 7:29:35 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Full Court
Before you go around lying about the guy and making yourself look like an idiot, you ought to get a few facts.

The facts as they pertain to the lying charlatan Kent Hovind are freely available on the internet. The best primary source that demonstrates his dishonesty is his own website. You only have to look at the ludicrous YEC arguments on his website (arguments so stupid and dishonest that even other creationist lie-sites like AiG say that they are stupid and dishonest) to see what kind of man we are dealing with here.

66 posted on 12/17/2005 7:31:36 AM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: Senator Bedfellow; Thatcherite

He makes very little money off the materials he produces because he does not copyright them. He allows people to copy them and do with them what they will.

He has some excellent materials at a great price. But he never tries to charge people more than what they are worth and if you called him today and told him you needed something and could not afford it, he would give it away to you for free.

I have personally seen him do that.

So stop trying to malign the guy and get your facts straight before you post lies about the man on a public forum.



67 posted on 12/17/2005 7:31:49 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
How many of his videos did he sucker you into buying? :)

I wouldn't have to buy any, he allows people to copy them and give them away.

But one of my favorites is where is exposes the frauds in evolution like Piltdoan Man, Glued Moths, human fetuses drawn to look like pig fetuses, the way Hawking pretends like the Law of recapitulation just doesn't exist. Oh, the list is long.

See, people who believe in the religion of evolution have to make us fairy tales to prove their "theory."

Sad.

68 posted on 12/17/2005 7:35:21 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Full Court
I have personally seen him do that.

Interesting. What exactly is your relationship with Hovind? Under what circumstances did you see him give his material away to the needy?

69 posted on 12/17/2005 7:35:57 AM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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Comment #70 Removed by Moderator

To: Thatcherite
He is a rich man

Oh yeah, now we have another ignoramous on the thread. Hovind is not rich by any means.

Why do you evo's have to create fiction to try and support your weak theories?

You can't prove the guy wrong so you try and pretend he is some Jim Bakker wanna be who is fleecing millions of people of millions of dollars.

What a crock. His amusment park is in the back yard of his three bed room home in Pensacola.

71 posted on 12/17/2005 7:38:28 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Full Court
Where do you get the idea that Hovind is fleecing people to the tune of millions of dollars???

The lien against him is a matter of public record - one of the IRS agents on the case has publicly stated that they have records of bank deposits exceeding $1 million/year for Hovind. Estimating his income from the amount the IRS claims he owes is a simple matter - do the math yourself, if you like.

Also, Hovind's 1996 Chapter 13 petition to recover his cars was tossed out of court as a sham - the IRS never apologized and did not, to the best of my kowledge, return the cars. If they did, it's almost certainly because he paid the back taxes owed.

As for me lying about him, let him subpoena my identity from FR and sue me for libel. I'm more that willing to stand by what I said.

72 posted on 12/17/2005 7:40:04 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Full Court
The theory of evolution has about 5 frauds associated with it in the last 150 years. Peppered moths are not a fraud, the photographic techniques used are absolutely standard, and are designed to show why the colouring adaption is useful.

All the real frauds were all exposed by the normal process of science. Not one was exposed by a creationist. In fact Piltdown man was increasingly seen as an irrelevant anomaly precisely because it didn't fit in with the pattern of hominid finds. Because creationists don't have any theory that explains the pattern of fossil finds they had no basis for rejecting Piltdown.

Most churches would die for the freedom from fraud and error associated with ToE over the last 150 years, and its demonstrable ability to police itself and to discover its own frauds and errors.

73 posted on 12/17/2005 7:41:07 AM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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To: Thatcherite
(arguments so stupid and dishonest that even other creationist lie-sites like AiG say that they are stupid and dishonest)

AIG would like to think that they own the creationsim movement,but they don't. Their biggest problem with Hovind is that he tells them that they are not going to dictate to him. They hate that.

He also chastizes them for copyrighting their materials and trying to make a buck off the people who need the information.

They hate Kent for being generous and giving stuff away. It just makes them look selfish.

74 posted on 12/17/2005 7:41:38 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Full Court
"But one of my favorites is where is exposes the frauds in evolution like Piltdoan Man, Glued Moths, human fetuses drawn to look like pig fetuses, the way Hawking pretends like the Law of recapitulation just doesn't exist. Oh, the list is long."

Piltdownman was exposed by evolutionists decades ago. The moths, as I already told you, were not glued on to the trees in the photos that were taken of them individually. This would be 99% of the photos of them. Haeckel's drawings were exposed almost immediately, and were not used by Darwin to promote evolution. Hawking? Do you mean the physicist?

Here's a link I am sure you will not look at:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/iconob.html

" See, people who believe in the religion of evolution have to make us fairy tales to prove their "theory."

Sad."

Some people like Hovind (who has a fake degree) have to dupe uneducated boobs out of their money in order to make a living.
75 posted on 12/17/2005 7:42:11 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Baraonda
"In another time, another age, its adherents used to be burned at the stake or given the rope."

I am sure that is what you wish to do to people who agree with evolution, but fortunately you are just another shmoo hiding behind your keyboard.
76 posted on 12/17/2005 7:43:52 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Thatcherite
What exactly is your relationship with Hovind? Under what circumstances did you see him give his material away to the needy?

I have visited with Dr. Hovind on many occasions in Pensacola, including the "theme park."
I have had ample opportunity to observe his operation, every there is open doors. I am not a personal friend of his and there are areas which I would disagree with him, but I know that he is not some kind of rip off artist like you people would like to paint him.

I have seen him give materials away on more than one occasion and his materials are not copyright, so anything he sells can be copied and passed around. However, many people copy his stuff and then sell it. So more people make a profit off his stuff than he does.

77 posted on 12/17/2005 7:45:28 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Also, Hovind's 1996 Chapter 13 petition to recover his cars was tossed out of court as a sham - the IRS never apologized and did not, to the best of my kowledge, return the cars. If they did, it's almost certainly because he paid the back taxes owed.

Well bro, looks like you don't know squat then, because he has the cars back.
Better check your facts better next time.

78 posted on 12/17/2005 7:47:07 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
The lien against him is a matter of public record - one of the IRS agents on the case has publicly stated that they have records of bank deposits exceeding $1 million/year for Hovind.

THat would be interesting to see, but I doubt you can furnish it.

However, he does have a ministry where he goes and speaks to churches and he does sell products that he produces. Are you implying that he is not intitled to the fruit of his labor?

79 posted on 12/17/2005 7:49:06 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
As for me lying about him, let him subpoena my identity from FR and sue me for libel. I'm more that willing to stand by what I said.

The point is that you don't know what you are talking about. YOu have stated things about Dr. H that are not true.

Why would you do something like that?

80 posted on 12/17/2005 7:50:17 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Full Court
... the frauds in evolution like Piltdoan [sic] Man, Glued Moths, human fetuses drawn to look like pig fetuses ...

I know this won't help you. It's for the lurkers -- pretty much the whole catalogue of "frauds" on the evolution side (no need to detail the long, woeful list of creationist frauds, as it's beyond my hard drive's capacity to present):

Piltdown Man. Science (not creationism) uncovered the fraud.
Nebraska Man. NEW Also: Nebraska Man in Textbooks? It wasn't much of a fraud.
Peppered Moths. Another non-issue.
Haeckel's Embryos. Yet another.
Ichneumon's Discussion of Haeckel's embryo drawings. A FreeRepublic post (#62).
Archaeopteryx. Despite howls from creationists, it's not a fake.
Archaeoraptor. A crude fake, publicized by Nat'l Geographic, then quickly exposed.
Lucy. The "fraud" claim is actually a creationist fraud.

81 posted on 12/17/2005 7:50:34 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: wallcrawlr; sirchtruth
Thanks for the ping wallcawlr.

Interesting isn't it sirchtruth?

The posters here have plenty of pejorative judgments to make about him and references to you but very little to offer for TOE.

These guys are a mass of contradicitons here sirchtruth

They say this Hovind guy is a crackpot nut ball and make forest gump comparison to him, bla bla 3d grade bla bla schuck and jive bla bla.

And this is contrasted against that no one in academia or from behind a screen name will step up to the plate for what is obstesibly a very easy hours worth of work (to listen to them) and collect $250K. Very telling.

And then we hear from them this Hovind could well have some tax problems too. Well I guess I could dig around a little and find plenty of dirt in the lives of evo-cultists.

But why bother? Those kind of assaults are only effective when used from the secular humanists of the liberal left. If I brought dirt here on the personal lives of evo-cultists it would be the same as pointing out the deeds of BJ in the oval office or his deeds with the chic-oms. Its expected of and from that side.

Hey, let's count down the posts till

a;
b;
c;

goes down, see freepmail for answer and laugh at the predictability of the 'scientists' lol

Wolf
82 posted on 12/17/2005 7:50:44 AM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Big Brother is watching the anti-Christ!

To know the enemy is to annihilate it.


83 posted on 12/17/2005 7:51:41 AM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Big Brother is watching the anti-Christ!

To know the enemy is to annihilate it.


84 posted on 12/17/2005 7:51:43 AM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Hawking? Do you mean the physicist?

Hawking - Dawkins : what does it matter how you pronounce his name? It's all a LIE that he pretends is a FACT

85 posted on 12/17/2005 7:51:55 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
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To: Full Court
Got anything besides your say so?

Not that it matters - as I said, if they did return them, it's because he made other arrangements to pay his debt. And yet, here he is again, claiming he doesn't have to pay taxes. Only this time, it's not ten grand he owes, but a half-mil. And it's only a matter of time before they move on that lien, my man, so if Kent owes you any money, I suggest you get in touch with him right quick, lest you become yet another unsecured creditor.

86 posted on 12/17/2005 7:52:16 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Baraonda
"Big Brother is watching the anti-Christ!

To know the enemy is to annihilate it."

Is that a threat? If it is it isn't very scary coming from you. :)
87 posted on 12/17/2005 7:52:44 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Baraonda

I pressed Post only once. I swear it to God.


88 posted on 12/17/2005 7:52:45 AM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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To: Thatcherite
The theory of evolution has about 5 frauds associated with it in the last 150 year

Oh, far more than five. And worst of all, the poor little people who still believe their evolution fairy take don't mind lying to kids about it either.

Haeckels drawings were proven fake over 10o years ago, but the National Science Foundation STILL uses the fake drawings to prove the fairy tale.

And stupid evolutionist will still get on forums like this one and defend that kind of a lie.

89 posted on 12/17/2005 7:53:57 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Oztrich Boy
" Hawking - Dawkins : what does it matter how you pronounce his name? It's all a LIE that he pretends is a FACT."

Why do you need facts when you have CAPS? lol
90 posted on 12/17/2005 7:54:19 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Full Court
THat would be interesting to see, but I doubt you can furnish it.

You doubt that I can provide an instance of the agent saying this?

Biblical theme park's finances investigated

However, he does have a ministry where he goes and speaks to churches and he does sell products that he produces. Are you implying that he is not intitled to the fruit of his labor?

Kent can fleece 'em for a billion a year for all I care. But the law says he has to pay taxes on it, which he isn't.

91 posted on 12/17/2005 7:55:16 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: PatrickHenry

Kent Hovind evolved physically, but not intellectually, from an ape.


92 posted on 12/17/2005 7:55:26 AM PST by verity (The MSM is a National disgrace.)
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To: Full Court
"Haeckels drawings were proven fake over 10o years ago, but the National Science Foundation STILL uses the fake drawings to prove the fairy tale."

Outright lie. Prove it.
93 posted on 12/17/2005 7:55:34 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Hawking


94 posted on 12/17/2005 7:55:54 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Full Court
YOu have stated things about Dr. H that are not true.

Let him sue me to redress this injury to his sterling reputation, then. LOL.

95 posted on 12/17/2005 7:56:12 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Full Court

Which Hawking?


96 posted on 12/17/2005 7:56:45 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
"The anti-Christs can hide, but can't run away from the stake."
70 posted on 12/17/2005 10:37:58 AM EST by Baraonda

A keeper? Or should I wait for something better?

97 posted on 12/17/2005 7:57:25 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

You stated that he was fleecing a million dollars a year from people. The newspaper says otherwise.

"Agents on Wednesday confiscated computer and paper records of financial activity since 1997, but no charges have been filed against Hovind."

Gets your facts straight and you won't look quite so stupid next time.


98 posted on 12/17/2005 7:58:19 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: PatrickHenry
And a very Merry Christmas to you!

99 posted on 12/17/2005 7:59:37 AM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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To: PatrickHenry

I'd wait and see; I think he do better if we only let him. :)


100 posted on 12/17/2005 7:59:51 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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