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Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question ^ | 1/13/05 | By Marc Morano and Randy Hall

Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz

( - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.

A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.

"[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.

Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.

Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."

In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.

"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.

However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.

When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.

"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.

On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.

"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.

Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.

"Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.

Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.

"In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.

But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.

"I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.

A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."

Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.

"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."

Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."

"I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.

In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.

'He's a phony and a liar'

Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.

... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.

Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.

"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.

"You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.

In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.

"The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.

Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.

"The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.

According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"

But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.

"You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.

Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.

"Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.

"Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.

Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'

During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.

"Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.

In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.

"I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.

"I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.

Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.

"I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.

The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.

Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.

(Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)

Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam

TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; abscam; anotherpurpleowie; cnsnews; exmarine; foundkerrysmedals; liar; murtha; murthamedals; phony; phonyandaliar; purpleheart; purplehearts
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To: jwalsh07

"Murtha has stuck his ample foot in his ample mouth more times than is necessary to cast doubt on his opinion."

Why haven't the MP's called this idiot into their office, and perhaps take away that, "Hero" status/purple hearts if he doesn't button his lip?

521 posted on 01/15/2006 6:32:06 PM PST by Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Image hosted by
522 posted on 01/15/2006 6:33:38 PM PST by JLO (
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan
Thank you for Trying to Repost the Picture of Bush Sr. being Pulled Out of the Water! I'm on my Other Computer, but I still can't See it. (But Thank you for your Thoughtfulness in Trying to Post it!)

I have Seen a Video Clip of him being Pulled to Safety on the News a Couple of Years Ago; I was Amazed that the Clip Even Existed! God Bless this Dear and Courageous man!

523 posted on 01/15/2006 9:05:04 PM PST by Kitty Mittens
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks for the ping Tonkin. Good graphic!!

524 posted on 01/15/2006 9:16:57 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: brazzaville
Unless things have changed, or I'm losing my memory, you aren't "put in" for a purple heart. When you are treated for a wound by medical personnel they fill out a tag on the injury and that report makes it's way up the chain and the medal is awarded.

If that detail is wrong, it must be a mistake on my part. This guy is the real deal. I've not only seen the shrapnel, I've seen footage of him in Vietnam.

525 posted on 01/15/2006 10:59:20 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Politics is war by other means, and just as in war we need to hit the enemy at their centers of gravity. For example, you don't go after every soldier in the enemy army just because they exist and could hurt you, you hit where it will gain you the most.

When some Freeper disagrees with you about what is and isn't an important center of gravity to hit at this moment, that doesn't make them a traitor.

526 posted on 01/15/2006 11:25:28 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: river rat; RVN Airplane Driver

The draft is the last thing the Army wants, and Air Force guys I served with had nothing good to say about it. It is counterproductive at this point.

527 posted on 01/15/2006 11:29:05 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: paltz

While I whole heartedly disagree with Murtha's stance, as a veteran of long term service, I am sick and tired of these attacks on the service of various veterans.

528 posted on 01/16/2006 7:59:37 AM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Mr. Silverback

I agree that is exactly my point.

529 posted on 01/16/2006 7:59:55 AM PST by JIM O
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To: Bob
Last Name, First Name
530 posted on 01/16/2006 8:07:16 AM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: paltz

Most likely true but the wrong approach.

531 posted on 01/16/2006 8:10:47 AM PST by grace522 (Let's not slander our intelligence to that degree)
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To: Mr. Silverback

"When some Freeper disagrees with you about what is and isn't an important center of gravity to hit at this moment, that doesn't make them a traitor."

Just when did I say that made them a traitor?

532 posted on 01/16/2006 8:37:08 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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After 37 years, what rank did he retire...Lt Colonel?

533 posted on 01/16/2006 8:52:31 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: jb6
Last Name, First Name

Or something very similar. I just received a replacement DD-214.

On the cover letter:

First Name Last Name (signed)

First Name Last Name (printed)

Archives Technician (printed)

Core 3, Team A (printed)

On the DD-214 (from 1975):



Separate block: written signature

534 posted on 01/16/2006 9:47:53 AM PST by Bob
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To: MadeInAmerica

It would only take five minutes for the two of them to discuss their war stories. Neither had anything true to talk about. Cheez.

535 posted on 01/16/2006 9:49:20 AM PST by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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To: MadeInAmerica

ROFLMAO...him and Kerry should get together and swap war stories. By the time they are done...they would have been both killed and raised from the dead.


And then GW Bush could come along and tell his war stories?
Seriously, this is a stupid route to go down. If you think someone's policies, then say so. If you think their policies will be bad for the country, then say so and say why.
This whole thing of discussing what people did decades ago is rather depressing. Politics should be about the future, not the past.

536 posted on 01/16/2006 10:19:34 AM PST by TheWormster
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Perhaps you have never explicitly used the term "traitor" to describe the "Move On Freepers," but your statements about them clearly are meant to leave the impression that they are enemies of the troops, or at least that they "put politics 1st, then money, then the troops." In post 461 of this thread you said that they "are out to sabotage the 2006 and 2008 elections" and posted that over a photo of John Kerry stabbing a soldier in the back. Is that supposed to mean something other than treason? The only way you could imply it more strongly is to post a photo of Benedict Arnold and label it "18th Century Move On Freeper." If you're surprised I'm getting the "They're traitors" vibe from your posts, maybe you should read back through some of them and think about it a bit.

Yes, some of the people who disagree with you on Murtha and Kerry are hostile about it. That doesn't make them Kerry and Murtha's allies. If a prosecutor doesn't want to take a case to court because they won't get a conviction, that doesn't make them a criminal, or a lover of crime. Yet when someone believes that your tactics will not gain anything for the troops or the conservative cause, you publicly associate them with people who are guilty of treason, and often do so with illustrations that show someone committing treasonous acts. As I said, it would be difficult for you to imply it more strongly.

If you think these people really are DUers, then get some Freeper researchers together and see if you can bust them. My problem is I'd bet you'd lump me in with the "Move On Freepers" because I think there's no chance in the world we'd ever get Kerry removed from the Senate and shouldn't waste our time. Let me tell you, I sure as heck haven't spent the last four years doing troop support work so somebody can lump me in with John Kerry and Jack Murtha.

537 posted on 01/16/2006 10:35:30 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: TheWormster
And then GW Bush could come along and tell his war stories?

I am not in favor of giving much attention to Murtha's medals, but this is beyond silly. First, let's note that the President has not ever used his service as a qualification for his elected jobs, and Murtha and Kerry have used it as their foremost qualification. Second, let's review the record:

Kerry gamed the system for medals and committed treason.

Murtha may have gamed the system for medals, and is certainly giving aid and comfort to our enemies now.

GWB volunteered for Vietnam twice according to witnesses, volunteered to fly a plane known for killing pilots, and served his time honorably.

You don't have to think G.W. is a hero to see that there is no comparison between him and these scumbags. And as a veteran, I have no problem with a medlahound being exposed. I don't think we should make it a line of attack with Murtha, but I see no problem with it in general. Those who game the system deserve to be exposed, no matter how much later it occurs.

538 posted on 01/16/2006 10:43:14 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Do they sell walls there?"--Paris Hilton asks about Wal-Mart.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

"Yes, some of the people who disagree with you on Murtha and Kerry are hostile about it."

And now they resort to getting my FR account suspended,
for what was a private discussion in FReep mail.

It was the 1st time ever that they resorted to this tactic.

Notice how they never say anything against hanoi kerry or cut and run murtha, BUT attack me.

Just keep in mind that
"Move On FReepers" "swore" klintoon, hitlery, hanoi kerry, sanbdi ber(bur)glar, al bore, jane beno,
would be prosecuted for
pardongate, chinagate, the bribes in upstate NY in the 2000 NY Senate race, waco, etc, etc,
"when" the "time was right".

Now we have to deal with hitlery because the
"Move On FReepers" told everyone to "wait"

I'm far from the only person on this thread, or in the forum, that has enough of the "PC" crowd.

The "PC" crowd is in fact the minority on FR.

Time to get to the basics.

Just ask Karl Rove who really won the Nov 2 2004 election

Rove Credits Swiftvets With 'Energizing' Bush Vote (Thank You Karl Rove!)

539 posted on 01/16/2006 11:05:45 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Plank Owner : Department of Homeland Security)
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To: Mr. Silverback

"I think there's no chance in the world we'd ever get Kerry removed from the Senate and shouldn't waste our time."

With a soon 6-3 US Supreme Court it's a no brainer!

It's not "my bright idea", it's what the law of the land says.

There is no need to impeach Hanoi Kerry from the US Senate

He is there illegally!


For those who "forgot" what Hanoi Kerry
did in the past read on and learn the truth.

Hanoi Kerry was still a USNR officer while he:
gave false hearsay testimony to Congress
negotiated with the enemy
helped the US lose a war
abetted in the deaths of millions
created a hostile environment for all servicemen

Why is Kerry still in the US Senate?
This is in violation of
U.S. Constitution Amendment 14 Sec 3

And the FBI has proof of his treason.

Hanoi Kerry Timeline of a traitor
includes FBI files

May 1970
Kerry and Julia traveled to Paris, France and met with Madame Nguyen Thi Binh, the Foreign Minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG), the political wing of the Vietcong, and other Viet Cong and Communist Vietnamese representatives to the Paris peace talks, a trip he now calls a "fact-finding" mission.

(U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953, declares it illegal for a U.S. citizen to go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power.)

a) A person charged with absence without leave or missing movement in time of war,
or with any offense punishable by death,
may be tried at any time without limitation.*%20843.%20ART.%2043.%20STATUTE%20OF%20LIMITATIONS

540 posted on 01/16/2006 11:13:09 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Plank Owner : Department of Homeland Security)
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