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In Praise of FR's freedom - from a progressive
by ClassConscious aka SoLongCrooks ^

Posted on 02/06/2006 7:52:43 PM PST by ClassConscious

Edited on 02/07/2006 3:38:17 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

Link

Earlier thread by this poster under another name before he was banned, linked above also:

Bye-bye Delay! So long crooks! Goodbye world, I'm gone by ZOT!

Posted on 01/08/2006 8:43:32 PM CST by SoLongCrooks

Yaa, you repukes are not doing so well, huh? Imagine, you repukes control the presidency, both houses of Congress, and appointed 7 of the 9 Supreme Court justices. Yet the Supreme Court thre out sodomy laws in all 50 states and recognized the right of government to seize land for any reason. And you couldn't pass your Social Security changes could you? Sorry, that was your last shot. Come November, we're going to start seeing more Democratic faces in the House. It's the end for you guys. You guys are celebrating when Bush's numbers go *up* to 45%. Then Faux News trumpets this like it's some kind of victory.

I should add I am not a Democrat, I am a communist. And I know one day the workers will control the means of production, and all the capitalist idle class parasites you guys love will be eliminated as a class. But I also recognize, like the CPUSA, sometimes you must enter a front with the liberals for tactical reasons. We had fun sticking it to the liberals with Nader and the Greens in 2000, 2002 and 2004, but this year we're switching gears. Evo Morales in Bolivia, Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, plus all are other Latin American comrades, and the Left Party in Germany, the Socialist Party in Spain pulling the troops out of Iraq. It's a come back for the workers of the world, BIG TIME. Sorry to all you capitalists and sycophants, or Jesus-believing loonies.

Oh yaa - Bye bye Tom Delay. We control nothing in the government, yet we still control so much! Gramsci was right to make a long march through the institutions. Too bad your shot at power amounted to so little! At least you got your estate tax cut...for a few years anyhow.

*******Beginning of new thread by the same Troll**************

The first thing I will say up front - I am a progressive, not a conservative. This message is about the freedom of Free Republic, versus the party line of Democratic Underground.

If you look at Democratic Underground's rules ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html ), one is "Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates." Note, this doesn't say Republicans, this doesn't say "progressive candidates", it says Democratic candidates, period. Now let's compare this to Free Republic's posting guidelines ( http://www.freerepublic.com/help.htm ) - "Broadly stated, the goals of this site are to further conservatism, expose political corruption, and recover a truly constitutional form of government." No mention of the Republican Party. No jihad against you if you make up your mind to vote for Pertouka. No "party line" from the Republican leadership. Significantly, even though DU and FR are compared often, that is a (unofficial) Democratic Party site, you are a conservative site.

I just made two posts saying positive things about the Green party, talking about how people like Clinton and Kerry do not represent working class people and so forth. This was after 200+ posts there by me on other topics. Both of my threads were locked and I was directed to the above mentioned rules, which say those who don't follow the Democratic Party line are not welcome. I then posted a thread saying Free Republic had more freedom of expression than Democratic Underground, and that that was a shame. That was erased.

While my discussion of this was banned on DU, I don't think it will be banned here. I can't believe I am more free to discuss my support of the Greens, or talk about freedom of political discussion on Free Republic than Democratic Underground. And as I said before, the fact that you are a conservative site, not a official or unofficial Republican Party site is probably due to this. The party that runs the White House, Congress and 7 of 9 Supreme Court seats allows people to support Pertouka over Bush on its main political board. The main discussion board for people of the progressive movement declares all must follow the Democratic Party line, and any other discussion is locked and erased. I've even seen people banned before.

This is not going to make me a conservative or Republican. I am a working class person and hate capitalists. Note, I hate capitalists, not conservatives. I know plenty of conservatives, but am not a regular at the mansions of wealthy heirs. Anyhow, my point is this will not make me like capitalism any more, but I am very fed up with the Democrats and places like DU. They restrict freedom, make people follow a party line - and lose. You allow discussion, allow people to choose between Pertouka, Bush and whatnot - and win. Very sad.

I should close this by saying I agree with nothing the Republicans or conservatives are for - except one thing. I am a complete supporter of the Second Amendment. I have been on the left for a long time and the scariest people around are the gun control people. Not the soccer moms who the leaders of gun control people try to appeal to, but the leaders themselves, the people who want more and more gun control. I have heard people like this talk about how they are scared that people up in Appalachia and in the South have so many guns. I am always puzzled like this. For myself, I feel pretty SAFE knowing people in Appalachia, the South and so forth have guns. Why would someone be scared that the working people in rural areas have rifles, shotguns and so forth? The people who say this usually aren't working class people, they are usually liberal yuppie types. So all you second amendment supporters - you're more right than you know, if you heard how these people talk, you'd be more freaked out by all this gun control stuff than you probably already are. The gun control people are the creepiest, scariest people on the left and in the Democratic party. Meaning not the soccer moms and so forth they try to appeal to, but the people masterminding the fight on that. In fact, if you look at DU polls - many many DUers are more pro-2nd amendment than pro-gun control. So who are these gun control people? So keep fighting on this, at least one party supports the 2nd Amendment. Other than this, I don't agree with conservatives or Republicans on anything, especially in terms of the working class. Hopefully this post will shame some DU admin into allowing more freedom of expression for progressives there. You guys can discuss problems in the conservative movement while we can't - we're only allowed to praise the Democratic party, otherwise, hit the road. I hope I shame some DU admin into making changes with this, but I doubt I will.


TOPICS: Editorial; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: anticapitalisttrash; banglist; communisttroll; democrapticundergrnd; du; dummie; dutroll; liberal; marxist; possiblezot; retreadtroll; welcometofr; zot; zotbait; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzot
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To: ClassConscious

i'll be checking back with you shortly


201 posted on 02/06/2006 8:46:19 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: Maximus_Ridiculousness

Hey Maximus.


202 posted on 02/06/2006 8:46:28 PM PST by pcottraux (It's pronounced "P. Coe-troe.")
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To: Sam Cree

I can never understand socialists, I guess that is because they "feel" instead of think. Socialists claim to want to share and share alike, but they are really a very selfish, lazy breed, who just want to feed off of other's enterprise.


203 posted on 02/06/2006 8:46:48 PM PST by Eva
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To: ClassConscious

I read somewhere that most "millionaires" started out as ordinary working-class people.

My husband & I own a business - we are the only 2 employees & sometimes making ends meet is very difficult - but we love being our own boss. We love being in control of our own destiny.

Nothing makes me madder than to have to hand my hard-earned tax money over to some lazy, able-bodied POS that wouldn't hit a lick at a snake, much less get a job.

I'm proud to be called a Capitalist & I'm also proud to be a part of the working class - it's what America is all about.

Welcome to Free Republic!


204 posted on 02/06/2006 8:46:54 PM PST by alicewonders
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To: ClassConscious
Well, a couple thoughts for you:

While you may be surprised, those of us who have lived as conservatives in primarily liberal cities are not. Modern liberalism is not Classic Liberalism, the Dems are simply the products of an elitist world view.

Next, we are all Capitalists. We all invest time and money in order to gain intellectual capital (skill, trade, education) that we employ for personal gain. The dividing labor, capital, and entrepreneurs only serves as a dialectic straw man to make Socialism look like a good idea.

Progressives Aren't

Conservatism is the for the common and working man. Teach them, train them, and stay the hell out of their.

Mansion dwelling trust fun babies vote for the D, ask yourself why. Check out Thomas Sowell (Marxism:Philosophy and Economics) and Von Hayek (The Road to Surdom).
205 posted on 02/06/2006 8:47:14 PM PST by Dead Dog
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To: Sally'sConcerns

Well, he/she's been here almost an hour.
Either the AM is considering our requests,
or they're sleeping/eating/other or...
they're letting the kitties come out and play with their food.

I know better than to try to guess the mighty AM's intentions. I'll just accept what happens.
(fingers crossed)


206 posted on 02/06/2006 8:47:40 PM PST by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)
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To: nopardons

It sounds like you are the one with a closed mind.


207 posted on 02/06/2006 8:48:14 PM PST by LibertarianCandidate
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To: Trteamer
Try cutting your hair, moving away from the college campus, getting a career and dedicating yourself to being the best. Give capitalism a try, you may like it.

Or better yet, let him/her try and play capitalist for real and put their money, mouth and heart and soul on the line by starting their own capitalistic business.

I'm sure that would be a REAL eye-opener into the inner workings of captialism. They'd find out that capitalism isn't just a word.

208 posted on 02/06/2006 8:48:20 PM PST by America's Resolve (I've become a 'single issue voter' for 06 and 08. My issue is illegal immigration!)
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To: Sally'sConcerns
LOL...the longer this thread is up and running, the more people who agree with me, will appear on it. I was just early to the party.

You betcha I called for a ZOT! This site isn't for stinking COMMIES; it's for CONSERVATIVES.

I should make a list and call all of your naive people out, when this troll goes and posts something about this thread on DU and/or posts his stinking COMMIE trip on other threads; but I wont do shame you so.

Change? The poster rather explicitly stated that he didn't come here to "change" and someone who has also stated that he hates capitalists, and then refuses to answer those who have called him out on that, is NOT here for any other reason than to 1) complain that DU isn't LEFT enough for him 2) spew his ideas and ignore debate.

So he loves the Second Amendment; big deal! He's against everything else a Conservative stands for.

209 posted on 02/06/2006 8:49:42 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

I remember when I use to watch the news and believe what was reported.

Then I took an interest in politics and eventually found my way to FR. I didn't take long before I felt like Roddy Piper in "Frogtown", you know, when he found the sunglasses that let him see the real world. lol

An open mind is all it takes and if this one sticks around I'll bet that some of those "Progressive" ideas disappear.
210 posted on 02/06/2006 8:50:15 PM PST by TheForceOfOne
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To: ClassConscious

Just wait until you actually start making it financially and have children for whom the shaping of their eternal destiny is largely yours for a couple of decades.

THEN you might realize that Conservative Constitutionalist Americanism is more than a movement, cliche or identity.


211 posted on 02/06/2006 8:51:22 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.)
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To: nopardons
2) spew his ideas and ignore debate.

THAT I agree with. If he/she won't debate, boot time.
212 posted on 02/06/2006 8:51:28 PM PST by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)
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To: Congressman Billybob
"Congressman Billybob (Hillary! delendum est.) "

I hadn't realized that Hillary! is a neuter noun.

Is this a subtle manifestation of triangulation?

213 posted on 02/06/2006 8:51:34 PM PST by Peelod (Decentia est fragilis. Curatoribus validis indiget.)
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To: ClassConscious
Let me begin by saying that I see that your post has 188 replies...I have not read any of them. I will bet that many of the replies will be "IBTZ" (In Before The Zot.)"

If your acount is still active, it is only by the grace of God, or the moderators...one and the same on this forum.

Your post would have had some relevance at one time...back when dissent and debate were welcome here.

Niether is welcome any longer.

This forum used to be a better place tha DU because of the difference that you pointed out, but that is no longer the case.

Thanks for the thought, anyway.

214 posted on 02/06/2006 8:52:21 PM PST by Washi
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To: JRandomFreeper

Being as I am not a conservative, I will be slightly circumspect in my discussion, since I suspect if I opt more for "heat" than "light", I will be zotted.

Well Molotov, not someone who praised the US lightly, said in his old age that the capitalist US saved Europe in the last world war.

As far as US leadership opening the door to communism, I think people tend to forget how isolationist the US was before World War II. How many people in the US thought that the chief bearers of the burden of containing communism worldwide would fall on US shoulders? Smarter people may have, I don't think it had sinked in nationwide though. I think you really have to go back in time to 1945 without 20/20 hindsight. I don't really feel the need to defend the Democratic party in any way though. I mean, read VP Wallace was saying at the time, it should be clear where the heads of some of the Democrats were.


215 posted on 02/06/2006 8:52:35 PM PST by ClassConscious
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To: LibertarianCandidate
Why, because I HATE, LOATHE, and ABOMINATE stinking Commies?

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

216 posted on 02/06/2006 8:52:52 PM PST by nopardons
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To: The Old Hoosier

I agree--why zot this when he is zotting DU?


217 posted on 02/06/2006 8:53:20 PM PST by wouldntbprudent (If you can: Contribute more (babies) to the next generation of God-fearing American Patriots!)
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To: ClassConscious

You've lasted this long, haven't been zotted. Good. Stick around, welcome aboard, from a former Democrat, more of the Henry Jackson variety.

Suggested reading:

The Road to Serfdom, by Freidrich A. von Hayek. von Hayek was hated by both the Nazis and Stalin. His colleague, Ludwig von Mises, had the misfortune of remaining in Austria, wound up in a concentration camp, and then the GULAG.

Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand. I will admit that she gets a bit preachy, and I also disagree with her atheism, among other things, but she does have some valid points.

The above some may consider more libertarian than conservative - yes we got some infighting here between the two groups, but that's another discussion altogether.

Stick around, have fun!


218 posted on 02/06/2006 8:53:24 PM PST by Fred Hayek (Liberalism is a mental disorder)
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To: ClassConscious

IBTZ. Where's the zot?


219 posted on 02/06/2006 8:53:27 PM PST by lmr (You can have my Tactical Nuclear Weapons when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.)
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To: ClassConscious

Capitalism is the creation of wealth, through which you can retire early and shoot your guns more.


220 posted on 02/06/2006 8:53:44 PM PST by gotribe (Hillary: Accessory to Rape)
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To: decal

So what--he was upfront about not being a conservative. If he wants to come here and not cause trouble--i.e., not do something truly troll=like and worthy of zotting---betcha a dollar he'll BECOME a conservative given enough time and brain investment on his part.


222 posted on 02/06/2006 8:55:44 PM PST by wouldntbprudent (If you can: Contribute more (babies) to the next generation of God-fearing American Patriots!)
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To: TheForceOfOne
Hmmmmmmmmm...hasn't worked for MurrayMom, nor any other of FR's "pet" LIBERALS and most of them have been here far longer than the people on this thread, who want to give the toll a chance. :-)

You came here, unlike the troll, already primed to be a Conservative; he didn't. He's just mad at DU; if that is even true.

223 posted on 02/06/2006 8:55:57 PM PST by nopardons
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To: ClassConscious

BTW, welcome and God bless you.

The Lord loves you so much he came down from Heaven, lived a sinless life and was slain like a filthy animal just to allow you the opportunity to live free, even if you are in shackles physically.

Embrace His love and learn His unique purpose for your life.


224 posted on 02/06/2006 8:57:55 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.)
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To: RandallFlagg
He's been mostly AWOL, has NOT replied , not even once, to those who have posted about being capitalist.

Where is the refutation?

Where is the debate?

WHERE IS HE ?

225 posted on 02/06/2006 8:58:30 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

That's alright.
I think I just changed my mind.
Post 214.
If he is defending the guy, that means there has GOT to be something wrong here.


226 posted on 02/06/2006 8:58:38 PM PST by Darksheare (Aim low! They got knees!)
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To: ClassConscious
Welcome to Free Republic. Maybe we can help. For me, it was Ronald Reagan that turned me into a conservative. For others, It took other events. I would like to recommend one of my favorites: Cinnamon Stillwell: The making of a 9/11 Republican.
227 posted on 02/06/2006 8:58:50 PM PST by SmithL (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: ClassConscious

I made about 25 posts over there, got bored and came home.


228 posted on 02/06/2006 8:59:10 PM PST by Luke21
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To: ClassConscious; Darksheare; darkwing104; MikeinIraq
How many people in the US thought that the chief bearers of the burden of containing communism worldwide would fall on US shoulders? Smarter people may have, I don't think it had sinked in nationwide though. I think you really have to go back in time to 1945 without 20/20 hindsight.

Bzzzzt.

NB4ZOT

229 posted on 02/06/2006 8:59:46 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever
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To: ClassConscious
the capitalist US saved Europe in the last world war.

And Europe didn't learn much did it?

230 posted on 02/06/2006 9:01:06 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Happy New Year FReepers.)
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To: ClassConscious

You are an honest liberal. If you stay you may find more to agree with us about than the 2nd Amendment, though that's a great start.

Just watch out for all the infighting between Republicans and Conservatives. It gets pretty old and tedious.


231 posted on 02/06/2006 9:02:01 PM PST by Luke21
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To: nopardons
He/she just posted a few minutes ago.
232 posted on 02/06/2006 9:02:12 PM PST by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)
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To: nopardons

The ZOT is always on standby. :)

Some of us are only offering a chance because he/she responded and didn't post and run. If he/she thinks they're going to recite Karl Marx every day and find acceptance, well, I don't think that will last long. Some people are just misguided, and we have a lot to offer here on FR for those people.


233 posted on 02/06/2006 9:02:56 PM PST by TheForceOfOne
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To: ClassConscious
Sorry, you're a bit shy of the mark.

American anti-Communism reared its head, from the time of the Bolshi Revolution. Yes, some American were Commies, even back then, more joined the party or at the least, were fellow travelers, during the Depression, but it is specious to claim that it was only in 1945, that people began to see the threat.

So, just WHY are you a stinking Commie?

234 posted on 02/06/2006 9:03:52 PM PST by nopardons
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To: day10

"Progressive" = Progression on the road toward Socialism.


235 posted on 02/06/2006 9:03:53 PM PST by Zman516 ("Allah" is Satan, actually.)
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To: nopardons
I should make a list and call all of your naive people out, when this troll goes and posts something about this thread on DU and/or posts his stinking COMMIE trip on other threads; but I wont do shame you so.

You're no fun at all.

236 posted on 02/06/2006 9:04:37 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government "job" attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: ClassConscious
ClassConscious, I understand why the Admin Mod said what he or she said in that post #72 (I think it was #72), because they don't want to be working overtime to moderate the kind of board that Jim Robinson did not intend to create, re discussions by those who "hate" what you said you hated.

On the other hand, I also understand post #99 to you, from Congressman BillyBob, because I think he took a look at what else you said and concluded: maybe you wanted to learn more and so you took a chance and came here.

I enjoyed reading most of your post, and I just want to tell you something funny: I voted Dem a long time, before I became an independent (leaning conservative), but frankly, I did not think too much about most issues when I voted Dem. And, when I first came to FR, I was still a registered Dem! However, I did not want to talk about that, as I was a disillusioned Dem.

I later found out there are quite a few conservative positions I can agree with. But, I was basically here to learn, and that's what I explained in a freepmail I wrote to Jim Robinson, asking him if it was OK if I could be here to learn even though I was a registered Dem. And, he said OK, and so I did. (Now, do you think anyone at DU would have given me a chance if I said I was still a registered member of the GOP?)

In short, I hope you might be here to learn, and what you don't or can't agree with, well, a lot of these people don't agree on things either. But, perhaps there is something you can agree with -- for example, did you know the GOP, not the Dems, receive more smaller donations than Dems in election years? I always found that fascinating because it says there are a lot of "working people" who are GOP, which was news to my brainwashed mind about who can be GOP or conservative (I thought only rich people) and who are Dems or liberals (I had never heard of limosine liberals.)

But, here -- you might actually find out more than you thought you knew about conservatives. I knew pretty much nothing. However, I think I learned a lot, and am glad I did.

I lurk sometimes at DU, and I also have to tell you this: in all the years I have lurked there, I have never once seen a discussion on education as interesting as any education thread here on FR. (I am a teacher.) People at DU do not discuss. They diss, attack, repeat, and then they're done. (And, I have read MANY terrible threads there against Greens. Yet, here on FR, I have posted threads about Greens in election years, as have others. And, none turn out as hateful as what you read over there!!! ) It's a very different kind of board over there. I learned that, too! Thanks for your post. :)
237 posted on 02/06/2006 9:05:02 PM PST by summer
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To: Darksheare

EXACTLY and FR's bleeding heart contingent needs to get a grip!


238 posted on 02/06/2006 9:05:44 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

Making friends and influencing people again?


239 posted on 02/06/2006 9:05:51 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.)
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To: ClassConscious

Hey man, when you grow up, you might even come to admire the filthy rich capitalists. They give you hope as to what you might become, if you get up off your lazy ass and do something with your life.


240 posted on 02/06/2006 9:06:09 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Darksheare

Hey, where is murrymom? Haven't heard a peep outta her in ages.


241 posted on 02/06/2006 9:08:03 PM PST by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough become truth to 48% of all Americans (NRA)))
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To: RandallFlagg
In praise of Molotov, yet!

He KNOWS that he will be ZOTTED, should he post what he REALLY feels, so is being supra-careful.

And...he has NOT engaged anyone in debate; just posted his "feelings" and random thoughts.

242 posted on 02/06/2006 9:08:42 PM PST by nopardons
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To: ClassConscious

"Classes" only exist in those countries that don't know the freedom of America.

Just ask any european they all think Americans are classless buffoons, little did you know they meant something else entirely.


243 posted on 02/06/2006 9:09:21 PM PST by usmcobra (I'm a Marine on currently on inactive status awaiting an eternal change of duty station)
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To: ClassConscious

One of the best books to read on conservatism is "The Conservative Mind" by Russell Kirk. He is considered to be one of the fathers of the modern (post 1950) conservative movement. In his book, the political philosophy of Edmund Burke is explained, which forms the core of intellectual conservatism. When I was 22, I voted for George McGovern for President. After working for the government for 6 years (and seeing first hand how in spite of good intentions how screwed up it was), I voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980 and again 1n 1984. I don't know what party I will vote for in 2006. I am very disillusioned by the big spending Republicans right now.


244 posted on 02/06/2006 9:09:46 PM PST by LibertarianCandidate
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To: TheForceOfOne

He seems to know his way around and is doing his utmost to not get ZOTTED. This does not bode well, for those who seem to think that we can "change" him!


245 posted on 02/06/2006 9:10:11 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

Zot him then. No sweat off my back.


246 posted on 02/06/2006 9:10:15 PM PST by TheForceOfOne
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To: SmithL
We have had several "Progressives" post over the years that they got a better hearing on FR than in their own venue. I have been hanging around here for a lot of years and if this person minds his manners let him spout. I vote NO ZOT.
247 posted on 02/06/2006 9:10:17 PM PST by Little Bill (A 37%'r, a Red Spot on a Blue State, rats are evil.)
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To: Victoria Delsoul

An interestin' li'l thread o'er 'ere.


248 posted on 02/06/2006 9:10:28 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: dirtboy
I like hanging out with wealthy people.

Their beer is usually better than mine.

And they have the good pot.

249 posted on 02/06/2006 9:10:40 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: ClassConscious

DU doesn't explain why----you're just gone w/o explanation----why should you get one here?


250 posted on 02/06/2006 9:10:55 PM PST by Mears (The Killer Queen-caviar and cigarettes.)
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