Russian Spy Agency Denies Pentagon Report ~

Las Vegas Sun ^ | March 25, 2006 at 11:41:26 PST | JUDITH INGRAM ASSOCIATED PRESS

[ozzymandus]

No need to be insulting to me just because you're defending a bunch of spies. I am Pro-America, not anti-russia. Are you a traitor too?

[Marine_Uncle]

"Think outside the box a little people. Some of you sound as simplistic as the Iraqi generals in your analysis."
Hard to argue with that one. Like I keep saying, until a few well versed authors, with military/intel experience write books and provide carefull analysis on each event as required, a lot of stuff will just get thrown around and lead toward knee jerking. At least the docs, are being made available, and over all pictures can be established. Of course much again, has been already written in tibits over the past few years. Folks just forget what they may have read a year back.
I personally do not think a "battle plan" was handed over. I think the Russians simply put together a list based on observations as pre-invasion movements/activities where made visible. And I don't think some mole in CENTCOM for instance gave them anything to go on. But the record may eventually be written with some elements of truth included.
At least we now have access to some documentation from the Harmony Database, to view.

[bill1952]

Not buying it.

Far more plausible is that Russia was doing what it always does, that we anticipated that fact, and that it got played like the two dollar whore that it is.

I suppose that the Russian effort to secure the bomb for Iran is also worth a 'tip o the hat.'

[Romanov]

I've dealt with Felgenhauer in the past. The experience could hardly be called "pleasurable." The last time I actually saw him in person was a couple of years ago at the Moscow premire of the move "13 Days" - he seemed to me a bitter man. My experience with Russian journalists have been the same - they will publish anything sensational; facts be damned.

Having said that, this whole scandal about the intel allegedly provided to the Iraqis is intriguing and raises more questions than it answers:

1.) If it was an officially sanctioned (i.e, Putin's government allowed the intel to be passed to the Iraqis) event then the next phone call from our President to Vovochka better be to call him out on it and remind him that "partners" in the WOT do NOT provide data that can cause the deaths of their forces - that's a BIG trump card - one I would try to use to get the Russians to agree to Iran sanctions at the UN. I would also like to see someone from the Western press hammer him (Putin) on this at the next press conference (I won't hold my breath).

Russia needs to understand that they still need our cooperation and sanction on a lot of issues that they hold near and dear. If they want to become that "opposite pole" in the multipolar world they seek, they better be prepared for the consequences. I might suggest the leaders over there, and ones who want to lead in the future, take a good hard look at the Cold War and the outcome of said conflict.

If they think Europe is turning away from us, they better think a little harder - while there are some "anti-American" movements in Europe, in the long run, deep down Europe knows which side is the right side - nobody likes to be on the losing side, and Russian playing footsies with Hamas, China, and Iran isn't making any friends in Europe. Add to that the perception (important word) that Putin is trying to control events in Ukraine, Belarus, and the rest of the Near Abroad, you have Europeans coming back into our sphere of influence.

2.) If it was a case of a rogue Ambassador (Titorenko) passing data to the Iraqis without the endorsement from the highest levels (Putin), this could be yet another example of Putin actually not being in complete control of the security forces. This is more in line with what I believe (for now). I don't think Putin has a good grasp or control over the silovki and each new scandal seems to prove this theory.

3.) If there was a "mole" at CentCom why wasn't the release of these documents accompanied by an arrest, or identification of who it may have been (if not an American, then who? or from what country? and how did they get access?). To me, this is strange - it's like showing your cards to your opponents before bets are placed.

4.) Why would the Russians pass intel to the Iraqis if they had a pretty damn good idea that we were going to defeat Saddam and occupy the country? If this was a GRU operation it shows some amazing incompetence on their part. Surely they didn't actually think that we would not defeat Saddam? That would be even more incompetence.

I also find it interesting that the GRU has been so openly vehement that this was not them (all over the Russian press). Is this a case of "me thinks thou doth protest too much" or are they incensed that they're being blamed for something they didn't sanction?

Regardless, this will be an interesting story for quite some time.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Got my breakfast rumbling here....

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks for the good comments!

[GSlob]

Truth about the evil empire is neither simplistic nor particularly complicated. It was, and remains, an evil place.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Some update pings!

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Got some updates on the thread, see above.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

And we have this tthread thanks to Proctor:

Mole may have been fed false information

[Marine_Uncle]

"Got my breakfast rumbling here...."
Her true beauty seems only to improve with ags.

[Fruit of the Spirit]

real of ficticious?

[Fruit of the Spirit]

"More plausible is it sounds like the Russians were helping us out..."

But they're denying they had any involvement now. Could it because they're saturated with Muslims in their country?

[Proctor]

Of course they would deny it.

[Stellar Dendrite]

please do not believe these russian troll opinion shapers. they are liars who come to these forums to propagandize and shill for putin.

"russia was helping us" HAHAHAHAHA do NOT believe these lies.





let's recall what putin did before the war...they were NOT "helping us"

respected WASHINGTON TIMES reporter BILL GERTZ in his book "Treachery" state that:
"Foreign munitions were used against coalition forces during the war and continue to be a potential source of explosives for improvised explosive devices still being used to kill U.S. soldiers."

Iraq's arms ["The big three arms suppliers were Russia (and the Soviet Union), China and France"] and "Russia supplied 122 different types of arms and a total of nearly 13 million items" Russian Delegation in Baghdad With Putin Message for Saddam Hussein

Moscow 'vehemently' opposes attacks on Iraq Sees Saddam's terror-sponsor state as 'long-term partner'





ask yourself, was russia "helping" us when they helped iran with numerous arms sales including a ONE BILLION DOLLAR DEAL??? they helped iran with having the ability for missiles to THREATEN EUROPE!

Russia to sell 29 air defense systems to Iran

Russia will sell SAMs to Iran

Russia to meet pledge on air defense system deliveries to Iran

Iran and Russia sign $1 bln defense deal: reports

Russians help Iran with missile threat to Europe

was russia "helping" us when they sold MiGs, helicopters, machine guns,submarines, training of venezuelan troops?

Venezuela Receives First Shipment of Russian Military Helicopters

Russia is ready to sell aircraft to Venezuela

Russia must begin the training, arming Venezuela's armed forces against US threat of invasion

Venezuela formalizes Russian arms deal

Venezuela to Buy Russian Submarines and Machine Guns

Hugo Chavez: MiGs, SAMs and 900,000 more assault rifles

ask yourself, was russia "helping" us when they said hamas was NOT a terrorist organization? or when they supplied missles to syria that were fired into israel?


Hamas not a terrorist organisation for Russia: Putin

Rockets fired from Lebanon into Israel are Russian-made, sold to Syria

Israel worried about possible new Russia-Syria arms deals

"Russia to supply Syria with ammunition, train officers"

'Russia's trying to save the Syrians'

another particularly DAMNING series of stories...

The KGB's Man (arafat was TRAINED and BANKROLLED by KGB!)

Bin Laden aide ‘had KGB link’

To The Qaeda:Ex Russian Agent, Vice Bin Laden Trained From Kgb

Russian secret agency FSB trained Al Qaeda's al-Zawahiri: Report:

Al Qaeda’s Al-Zawahiri Received Terrorist Training in Russia

KGB trained Zawahiri, says former agent

other stories of interest, for instance why does rusia have the same amont of spies in the US/UK as during the cold war??

"Russian agents flood UK in revival of intelligence Cold War"

"The Russians Are Coming - As Many Russian Spies Now In The U.S. as during the Cold War"



Powell Concerned by Putin Political Changes



The Increasingly Intertwined Bear and Dragon Russia providing Military Technology and Arms to China

[Stellar Dendrite]

PING to #76!!!

[GarySpFc]

You go from one thread to another posting things to play on people emotions but now it is time you are faced with some logic, something that you have never had.

[GarySpFc]

Anyone can shrill and post lots of links, which agree with their position. Let the State Department do their work, examine the evidence, and see where this leads. If the Russians are guilty, then they should fry. That said, there is also evidence you want to overlook that bad information was fed to the Iraqis. From the AP article:

The report does not address the possibility that the U.S. military deliberately fed false information to the Russians, expecting them to pass it to Saddam. It does say that "such external sources of information were only one of the fog-generators obscuring the minds of Iraq's senior leadership."

Among the information the Iraqis said they received from the Russians, some of which proved inaccurate, was: That the movement of U.S. troops into southern Iraq from Kuwait was a diversion. In fact it was the main avenue of attack, supported by special forces entering from Jordan and paratroopers flying into northern Iraq.

That the ground assault on Baghdad would not begin until the Army's 4th Infantry Division was in place, around April 15. In fact, the 4th Infantry, whose originally planned invasion route from Turkey was blocked by the Turkish government, was not yet on Iraqi territory when the Baghdad ground assault began April 7. Thus, by design or chance, the information from the Russians actually reinforced a U.S. military deception effort.

Additionally, some reports have listed the Special Forces positions as having been revealed. That I can guarantee you is bogus, and did not happen, because 99.99% of those in the Pentagon would not even know where they were located. Furthermore, to prove this point none of the teams were compromised.

[popdonnelly]

"I recall stories during the war of Russian advisors having helped prepare Iraq's defences in Baghdad"

Having witnessed how the defense of Baghdad failed completely, I believe it.