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'Gospel of Judas' Called An Authentic Fabrication
The New York Sun ^ | April 7, 2006 | BRUCE CHILTON

Posted on 04/07/2006 6:38:55 AM PDT by presidio9

The National Geographic Society released the manuscript of what is called "The Gospel of Judas" yesterday. By National Geographic's own account, a team first assembled by the Maecenas Foundation has been working on the text since 2001. As a result of press releases tied to publication of the text, widespread coverage has repeated the claim that this is an authentic and unique representation of the historical relationship between Jesus and Judas, and that Jesus encouraged Judas to betray him.

Despite the careful work by scholars that has gone into a document of obvious interest, I have to express disappointment when I see National Geographic stoop so low into hyperbole as to distort the significance of this discovery.

In its release, National Geographic repeatedly states that it has "authenticated" the document. Several press outlets have simply repeated those claims. But "authentic" turns out to be a slippery term as used by the National Geographic Society. No scholar associated with the find argues this is a first century document, or that it derives from Judas. The release says the document was "copied down in Coptic probably around A.D. 300," although later that is changed to "let's say around the year 400." This amounts to saying that "The Gospel of Judas" is an authentic fabrication produced by a group of Gnostics in Egypt. Gnostics believed that their direct knowledge of heaven permitted them to understand what no one else knew, or could know by historical knowledge. For ancient Gnostics to believe in their own powers of divination is charming; for their flights of imagination to be passed off as historical knowledge in our time is dishonest or self-deceived.

During the second century, a theologian of the Catholic Church named Irenaeus referred to a writing named "The Gospel of Judas." Was that

(Excerpt) Read more at nysun.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: authenticfabrication; crapola; fabrication; fakebutaccurate; fakewhenitwaswritten; gnostic; gospelofjudas; ignorantmedia; irreligiousmedia; jeeznotthisagain; judas; justsomegnosticcrap; msmdontknowhistory; msmdontknowreligion; muchadoaboutnothing; wtfk
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1 posted on 04/07/2006 6:38:57 AM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9

Fake but accurate?


2 posted on 04/07/2006 6:43:23 AM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: presidio9

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. Certain quarters won't be satisfied until they've reduced Jesus to a common rabble-rouser. Once we've dumped the "Son of God" notion, we can get on with multiculturalism in earnest.


3 posted on 04/07/2006 6:46:26 AM PDT by hershey
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To: presidio9

Mary Mapes long lost ancestors........


4 posted on 04/07/2006 6:46:29 AM PDT by Red Badger (I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.....)
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To: Red Badger

Laughed so hard my minidachs fell off my lap.


5 posted on 04/07/2006 6:47:10 AM PDT by hershey
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To: BenLurkin

Fake but fake.


6 posted on 04/07/2006 6:49:14 AM PDT by formercalifornian (One nation, under whatever popular fad comes to mind at the moment, indivisible...)
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To: hershey
Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. Certain quarters won't be satisfied until they've reduced Jesus to a common rabble-rouser. Once we've dumped the "Son of God" notion, we can get on with multiculturalism in earnest.

Just witness how enthralled the idiot press and those who follow them are, still, over The DaVinci Codes.

Katie Couric brought them up this morning, in a discussion about this silly Judas gospel.

One of the participants had to point out to her that "Katie, the DaVinci Codes are a work of fiction."

7 posted on 04/07/2006 6:49:57 AM PDT by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: BenLurkin
As another poster noted why Gnostics are not Christians:
Gnostics (no matter what their stripe, or how Christian they seemed at first glance, and the philosophy predates the Christian faith) believed:

The God of the world was more or less evil because he made things out of matter.

The True God is only spirit, and each level of being, is less spiritual and more contaminated by matter.

That you have to have the secret gnosis to get out of the matter realm and into the spirit realm.

The Christian sounding gnostics didn't believe that Jesus came here in a real body, because that would mean he was contaminated with Matter.

It gets weird and interesting, and farther and farther away from what most people think of as Christianity the more you get into it.

So why should we really care. There are a lot of gnostic texts out there, easy to get hold of. They have no more validity as scripture to Christians than the Golden Ass does, except that they use a framework of Christian names to spout off what has a lot in common with the Golden Ass and other mystery religions like the Orphic traditions.


8 posted on 04/07/2006 6:51:38 AM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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To: presidio9

Authentic Fabrication....does that mean Real Fake


9 posted on 04/07/2006 6:53:02 AM PDT by Military family member (GO Colts!!)
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To: presidio9

National Geographic places their own desires for confirmation of THEIR presuppositions ahead of actual fact. That's why they got caught with their pants down a couple of years ago when they trumpeted a fossil that showed a flying dinosaur. They wanted to believe it was true, so they did. They got burned big time and issued a rather haughty mea culpa.

Too bad they didn't learn their lesson.


10 posted on 04/07/2006 6:54:01 AM PDT by Kieri (Dump "Dangerously Incompetent" Debbie, Support Keith Butler for Senate)
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To: formercalifornian

Translation of a copy of a fake............


11 posted on 04/07/2006 6:54:31 AM PDT by Red Badger (I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.....)
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To: presidio9

Actually, they know the name of the Coptic monk who "found" the original manuscript in the early 4th century: Ratericos Danilos. It was revealed as a forgery because it was created using a stylus that hadn't been invented until AD 378.


12 posted on 04/07/2006 6:54:47 AM PDT by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals regardless of their party affiliation.)
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To: Military family member

Real Fake, as in those damn Rolex junk spam e-mails..........


13 posted on 04/07/2006 6:55:15 AM PDT by Red Badger (I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.....)
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To: Antoninus
Ratericos Danilos.....Who had a secretary named Marius Mapeus.............
14 posted on 04/07/2006 6:56:46 AM PDT by Red Badger (I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.....)
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To: presidio9

It's as legitimate as "The Hitler Diaries."


15 posted on 04/07/2006 6:57:21 AM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: presidio9
In its release, National Geographic repeatedly states that it has "authenticated" the document

Post the original and let the pajamahadeen authenticate the typewriter font :-)
16 posted on 04/07/2006 6:58:34 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: presidio9
Great article. No one in the MSM covering this story has mentioned it could have been forged way back in the third or fourth centuries or how they are certain it was written by Judas.

It's just accepted as the Gospel truth. Amazing!

17 posted on 04/07/2006 6:59:01 AM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: presidio9

I don't think any of the New Testament is derived from first century documents or is an original.


18 posted on 04/07/2006 6:59:05 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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Tempest in a teacup
Mountain out of a molehill

There are lots of addtional "gosepels"
see www.earlychristianwritings.com

The Bible in its current form is the Word of God. Always has been always will be.


19 posted on 04/07/2006 7:01:58 AM PDT by ejroth
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: FormerLib

Gnosticism sounds similar to Christian Science belief.

Mrs VS


21 posted on 04/07/2006 7:09:36 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: Dog Gone
I don't think any of the New Testament is derived from first century documents or is an original.

Well, according to anyone who's ever done intensive work on the NT - be they Christian, Jewish, agnostic or what have you - all the NT documents except two absolutely date from the 1st century, and there is a good chance that the remaining two do date from the 1st century as well.

In addition to this unanimous scholarly opinion, there is the fact that early 2nd century writers (100-125 AD) reference the NT documents as if they were already well-known and established documents. Additionally there are substantial manuscripts of the NT existing from about the year 200 AD and fragments from before 125 AD, including a possible fragment from before 68 AD.

So the facts contradict you.

22 posted on 04/07/2006 7:09:38 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: presidio9

I was listening to a dj talk about this story this morning. The DJ said that the Judas Gospel dispels the story that Judas betrayed Christ of his own will, i.e. Christ asked Judas to drop the dime on him.

IIRC, Judas committed suicide the morning after he betrayed Christ. My question is this: When did Judas have time to write his Gospel if said Gospel includes events that took place only hours before his death?


23 posted on 04/07/2006 7:10:00 AM PDT by randog (What the...?!)
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To: presidio9

Why is even FNC reporting the story as based on a true original rather than a fake copy.

The media should be screaming fromthe top.


24 posted on 04/07/2006 7:10:54 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: presidio9

I tend to think this is just an ancient version of the "Da Vinci Code"...or near equivalent.

Fiction has always been popular. ;)

Regards, Ivan


25 posted on 04/07/2006 7:12:03 AM PDT by MadIvan (Ya hya chouhada! Dune fans, visit - http://www.thesietch.com/)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo; metmom; RunningWolf
Finally a Gospel the evos will believe.!!!!
26 posted on 04/07/2006 7:12:27 AM PDT by WKB (Science Fiction= Any science that omits God.)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: BenLurkin

Genuine ancient fiction. Written by Danus Brownus.


28 posted on 04/07/2006 7:13:48 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: BenLurkin
LOL.

MY first thoughts also. Bet that was common for many of us here on this site.

29 posted on 04/07/2006 7:14:31 AM PDT by TruthWillWin
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To: All

Yes, yes, we have the new christian doctrine being heaved upon us....

Jesus did not rise from the dead, he was only sleepy, and after some herbs and a nice nap he awoke to proclaim "Look dude's I'm back from the dead!!"

Jesus did not walk on water. It was cold, he walked on ice.

Jesus was in cahoots with Judas to have him betray him. The kicker being he must have also told him to kil himself-- just to make the cover up more believeable.

Pattern here?
Nah.


30 posted on 04/07/2006 7:15:21 AM PDT by CygnusXI (Where's that dang Meteor already?)
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To: Dog Gone

You would be in the extreme minority on your view. Even most secular scholars who do not believe the NT holds any divine significance agree that most all the books of the NT were written in the 1st century.


31 posted on 04/07/2006 7:15:55 AM PDT by bethelgrad (for God, country, the Marine Corps, and now the Navy Chaplain Corps OOH RAH!)
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To: presidio9

So what's the date of the earliest surviving manuscript of the canonical Gospels?


32 posted on 04/07/2006 7:16:07 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: BenLurkin

It's probably the Times font that gave it away.


33 posted on 04/07/2006 7:17:21 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch (But even if he does not...)
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To: presidio9
It sounds like the GoJ is an authentic historical artifact, just as a 2000 year-old mosaic depicting the labors of Hercules would be an authentic historical artifact. It's a shame that National Geographic damages the significance of the finding by trying to make it into something that it isn't.
34 posted on 04/07/2006 7:17:23 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (When Al Franken had his bris, they threw away the baby and saved the foreskin.)
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To: wideawake
Well, according to anyone who's ever done intensive work on the NT - be they Christian, Jewish, agnostic or what have you - all the NT documents except two absolutely date from the 1st century, and there is a good chance that the remaining two do date from the 1st century as well.

That's a gross exaggeration.

35 posted on 04/07/2006 7:17:53 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: formercalifornian
>Fake but fake
"After being discovered in Egypt in the 1970s, National Geographic's manuscript was badly damaged, perhaps as a result of repeated attempts by earlier owners to sell it (sometimes at a high price, which it never fetched). As late as last February, National Geographic reports, "a missing half-page of the gospel resurfaced in New York City." This does not inspire confidence in the chain of custody or the document itself..."



36 posted on 04/07/2006 7:18:37 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: wideawake

There are original fragments of Paul's writings?


37 posted on 04/07/2006 7:18:49 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: presidio9
Judas 1:1

And it came to pass that afterwards I didst receiveth a tidy sum of 30 pieces of silver for doing my Lord's bidding. But, yea I was consumeth by guilt for not having asketh more to aideth in the production of my original screenplay: Jesus Christ Superstar and thus find myself about to steppeth off a chair with a rope around my nec

38 posted on 04/07/2006 7:19:17 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.)
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To: VeritatisSplendor

Really good heresies never go away, they just sort of recycle as part of someone's latest revelation.


39 posted on 04/07/2006 7:19:39 AM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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To: N. Theknow

ROFL!


40 posted on 04/07/2006 7:20:36 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (When Al Franken had his bris, they threw away the baby and saved the foreskin.)
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To: longtermmemmory
The media should be screaming fromthe top.

Every year around Easter time, the MSM-Dinosaur Media hauls out some new reason why we can't trust the Bible or believe Christ was really who and what he said he was. Usually, it's trotted out in the guise of some wonderful new scholarship or historical research, and it's presented in a "stealthy" sort of way, to lure in genuinely curious Christians. The agenda is always the same - to gently demoralize and sow doubts. It's "almost" like they are working for the Enemy...

41 posted on 04/07/2006 7:22:47 AM PDT by LikeLight
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To: Dog Gone
***I don't think any of the New Testament is derived from first century documents or is an original.***

I'm no Bible expert but I think the Letters of Paul are from the 1st Century.

42 posted on 04/07/2006 7:23:43 AM PDT by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: Dog Gone
No one said there were any extant "originals" - merely that the text of the NT documents are from the 1st century.
43 posted on 04/07/2006 7:24:48 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: presidio9

Has anyone noticed how the MSM always picks Christmas and Easter to release stories questioning the Gospels? I guess this is the only time they give the subject a passing thought, so it seems appropriate to them. They never stop to think that bringing this stuff up on the most important days of the religious calendar is an insult to believers.


44 posted on 04/07/2006 7:24:54 AM PDT by joylyn
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To: bethelgrad

I'm not saying they weren't written in the first century. I'm saying that the earliest copies of these texts don't themselves date to the first century.

And I don't think we have any of the originals.

I would love to be convinced otherwise.


45 posted on 04/07/2006 7:26:36 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Slings and Arrows
It sounds like the GoJ is an authentic historical artifact, just as a 2000 year-old mosaic depicting the labors of Hercules would be an authentic historical artifact.

Exactly. The fact that the the mosaic was truly 2,000 years old does not make it "true" but does make it archaeologically interesting. Imagine if 2,000 years from now archaeologists discovered the film collection of Oliver Stone and Michael Moore. I am sure it would be of interest, but not a representation of fact.

46 posted on 04/07/2006 7:27:42 AM PDT by Armando Guerra
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To: ejroth
>There are lots of addtional "gosepels"

That's why the First Church
of Pamelatology

recommends just two

texts for anyone
to read. They are approved and
easy to acquire . . .

47 posted on 04/07/2006 7:28:17 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: Right Wing Professor; wideawake
Why is his statement a gross exaggeration?

There is nothing on the link you provided that exaggerates his claim at all.

all the NT documents except two absolutely date from the 1st century.

48 posted on 04/07/2006 7:28:40 AM PDT by Angus MacGregor (Wars are fought in the will...)
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To: BenLurkin
Fake but accurate?

It's apparently genuinely from around 400 AD, regardless of its contents. Thus it's not "Fake but accurate", but rather genuine but innaccurate.

Rather like a thousand years from now finding a recording of the infamous "I did not have sex with that woman" speech by Clinton: It's an actual recording; Bill Clinton really said that; but the contents are of a falsehood being uttered.

49 posted on 04/07/2006 7:30:21 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: presidio9
IMHO, here is the money quote from the article:
That is a waste of a unique finding; "The Gospel of Judas" offers rich insights into ancient Gnosticism, particularly into the way in which Gnostics saw Jewish institutions transformed by Jesus.

The author also indicates that this includes a different spin on the story in John 13:21-30. Same basic facts, but different interpretation.

50 posted on 04/07/2006 7:33:08 AM PDT by RebelBanker (If you can't do something smart, do something right.)
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