THE KEY WORD HERE IS ILLEGAL

Sierra Times ^ | 4/14/2006 | Al Benson, Jr.

[r9etb]

Those weren't insults. Just observations. Because you cannot understand the answers does not mean that I have not stated my case.

I'm simply asking "searching questions," and asking for clarification where I see the need for it. As an engineer (who is, btw, quite conversant with math) I always like to be clear on the problem before I attempt to solve it. I'm asking you to help define the problem. You seem to be treating that as an argument against what you're saying, but it's not.

It is way too late to deal with the bleeding hearts. They've done their damage and it is probably too late to fix it.

To quote the late James Burnham: "If there's no solution, there's no problem." Are you saying that there's no solution to the domestic problem? And are you saying that we can somehow fix the illegal immigration problem without being able to solve its domestic roots?

How can we do that?

[P-40]

It's your time. Just be careful. Some of the Mods appear to be sympathetic for some reason.

That would actually be kind of funny.

[P-40]

And are you saying that we can somehow fix the illegal immigration problem without being able to solve its domestic roots?

That is what the House *was* doing. As I recall, they were called every name in the book.

[r9etb]

That is what the House *was* doing. As I recall, they were called every name in the book.

Seems to me that that would be one of the things any real solution would have to address, then. And it also seems to me that no other effort will bear fruit until that issue is resolved.

So how would you propose to go about it?

[CowboyJay]

"All the donor money in the world doesn't mean jack without our votes."

I'm convinced that the RNC could not possibly care less about winning elections. It's all about keeping themselves flush with cash from PAC's.

[CowboyJay]

"So it's clearly not a matter of mere "illegality" for some of the folks who post extensively on this topic."

Correct. That would have to do with the constitutional premise that the right to govern is derived from the consent of the governed. The 'governed' in this case most certainly do not consent to amnesty. It also has to do with the right of expatriation which our congresscritters are threatening to breach.

...and then there's the small matter of providing for the common defense.

[P-40]

And it also seems to me that no other effort will bear fruit until that issue is resolved.

Unless all of the critical angles are addressed at once, there will be no solution. Fortunately, the Senators from my state were really starting to grasp that we preferred no bill to a bad bill.

A little insight on how things *used* to be. At one time, predominately single males came across the border to work a bit and then go home. We got the cheap labor and they got the advantage of the currency differential that made them a bit more middle class in their home country with the power that came with it. Bringing the family here was discouraged, actively so. Then the Supreme Court said we needed to educate their kids at the State's expense. They said they had every right to welfare. We were supposed to treat them like any other citizen. The trickle across the border became a flood.

Until we reverse this mess, nothing will change. We don't need to build a wall along the entire border, we just need to remove the incentives to come here..like Prop 187 tried to do. People will scream "racist!" at anyone who attempts to do this. These are the people that are not only supporting a massive corporate welfare system but also a system of brutal repression in Mexico towards anyone whose skin is a bit too brown.

That is it in a nutshell.

[jordan8]

At the heart of today's immigration problem is its illegality

Nonsense. It's about race, culture, politics and, above all, numbers. Legality is just words on paper. If legal slots were unlimited and it only took 5 minutes and 5 bucks to get your papers illegality would no longer be an issue. Would the problem go away? Harping on legality is simply a way to avoid the real questions.

[FerdieMurphy]

It's about watering down the country with stupid, ignorant scum from Mexico.

[r9etb]

Until we reverse this mess, nothing will change. We don't need to build a wall along the entire border, we just need to remove the incentives to come here..like Prop 187 tried to do.

I agree with that. But the question is, since you say it's already too late to fix, how do you go about fixing it?

Are you suggesting that it's too late to fix at the state level, but can be addressed at the federal level? Or is it too late to fix it even at the federal level?

If the former, how would you suggest it get fixed (and what would you suggest the fixes be)?

And if the latter -- if it's too late even for the feds to fix it -- what then?

[r9etb]

We'll mark you down in the "bigot" column.

[FerdieMurphy]

Many are sexual predators who are after our youngsters!

Those who cross our border include the scum of Mexico and it's just as though Senor Fox is cleaning out his prisons and shoving the garbage across our border.

Let's deport our political class along with the 11,000,000 plus that we should be ejecting.

Ejected? These imbeciles are rejects that believe America is their public park.

[Abundy]

bump for later reading

[FerdieMurphy]

Your bigoted complaint, OTOH, needs to be pointed out and rejected out of hand.)

And what might that bigoted complaint be, Oh PC one?

If it's about the fact that these are rejects from Mexican society who no doubt have an IQ that doesn't approach normal room temperature, then I stand firmly behind that.

It is very easy to see which side of the fence you're on.

[FerdieMurphy]

Communism can't get a foot hold in a wealthy nation, so they have to destroy our economy.

Bingo!

[P-40]

Are you suggesting that it's too late to fix at the state level, but can be addressed at the federal level?

Probably neither, but then I am cynical these days. In my state things may get fixed because we simply do not have the money it will take to sustain the problem and the people paying the bills are getting a little ticked off. We also don't have the "you are Hispanic so you must support illegal immigration" problem that more urbanized states have. But then, many of the "fixes" we would need at the state level would require breaking federal laws...and on the federal level, I don't see anything positive happening until things have gotten so bad that people are rioting in the streets and that will result in a temporary patch at best. Hopefully, the conservative Republicans, and the conservative Democrats, in the southern states will get the ball at least rolling. I'm not holding my breath though.

[P-40]

If it's about the fact that these are rejects from Mexican society

There are a lot of them that would be rejects from any society...but then there are many that are willing to work and would make good guest workers under a controlled entry/exit system. Most of them just have too brown of skin to have a good life in Mexico.

[upchuck]

How many Mexicans will come across the border illegally today?

I don't think anyone knows for sure, not even our much vaunted Department of Homeland Security. (And that is a joke in it's self.)

But all the estimates I've read are around 1000+ per month.

[r9etb]

It is very easy to see which side of the fence you're on.

Oh? I think your biases prevent you from even seeing the fence, much less which side of the fence I'm on.

[r9etb]

I think you're probably too cynical, though it could certainly get as bad as you suggest. The problem is addressable even now -- a reasonably-effective guest worker program would probably do the trick: ensure that Americans hire only registered "guests" (which can be done via internet!); and make sure that the "guests" are taxed, through witholding.

Taxes will address many of the imposed costs; registration and tracking addresses the national security issues; and registration and witholding requirements address the financial incentives for businesses to hire illegals or guests.

But supposing you're right, and the problem cannot be fixed: wouldn't it make more sense to make the best of it?