Posted on 05/03/2006 1:45:51 PM PDT by Prince Caspian
"I would say that from his wife's perspective that's a very unfortunate case of sleep apnea."
Yes - it most certainly was.
I guess we can't always get what we want.
But we almost always get what we expect.
"But we almost always get what we expect."
I wish I could agree with you there, but I've been thrown enough surprises in my life where I'll have to digress.
So, you're saying you expect the unexpected? ;-)
You said -- "I am suprised at how eager people are to believe this nonsense for any reason."
So, basically you're saying that they're liars and they never did consider these things. They only made it up after the fact (or rather the wife did) -- and thus there is no truth to it...
If that's what you're saying -- it sounds like you're saying that *simply* because you cannot accept that someone would have thought that or acted like that *before the fact*. So, "testimony" doesn't mean anything to you. All that matters is whether you can believe it or not.
Actually it's not too hard for me to believe that this is *true testimony* of the wife -- about her and her husband. Why is it that hard to believe. Let's say (for sake of discussion) that they were misled in their own emotions and that it couldn't possibly be "true". That being the case -- they *still wouldn't be lying* (in their testimony to this "fact") -- but only that they believed something that wasn't actually true (in your mind, at least).
But, you -- on the other hand -- have to say that they *have to be lying* and that's the only option.
I'm afraid you've got a very limited view of the whole thing -- no matter whether you believe such a thing is true or not.
Regards,
Star Traveler
"So, you're saying you expect the unexpected? ;-)"
hee hee! Good one.
I just take it as it comes.
You said -- "Yup. lying is the only rational option here too."
Well..., you see..., this is where you're wrong.
Let's grant -- for the sake of discussion -- that it is *nonsense* that someone can *truly* have a premonition like that. You believe (if I've gotten this correct) that there is no such thing as premonitions.
Now, where you're wrong -- is not necessarily in your belief on "premonitions" -- but rather -- in whether someone else can *believe* in something that is wrong (i.e., wrong from your view or perspective).
Namely, there are other people who believe in premonitions. And *therefore* they act upon that belief.
In your mind -- since it's "not true" (i.e., the "existence of premonitions") -- they *have to be lying*.
You've failed to take into consideration that other people don't believe as you do -- and THEREFORE they *can act* on a belief that is different than yours -- and still *not be lying* -- even if what they act upon is not true.
So, that's where you're wrong -- regardless of whether premonitions are real or not.
And thusly, that's why I say I take their "testimony" as truthful. They have no real reason to lie about "concrete things" that happened to them, personally, before Flight 93 occured.
Regards,
Star Traveler
As a Christian I know you know that God spoke to people through dreams and visions quite frequently in the Bible.
Just a few places include: Genesis 15:12-21; Genesis 28:11-22; Genesis 37:5-10; Numbers 12:4-6; Judges 7:13;
"For God does not speak - now one way, now another - though man may not perceive it. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds, he may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings, to turn man from wrongdoing and keep him from pride, Job 33:14-17
Matthew 1:20-21..when Joseph was told about Jesus' birth in a dream.;Acts 16:9-11; Acts 18:9-11.
The Bible also speaks about people who say they have dreams in order to lead people astray as in Deuteronomy 13:1-5 and Jeremiah 23:25-29.
Jesus speaks in Matthew 12:22-37 about those who would attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil. Basically he says doing so is unforgiveable.
Unless the dream or vision is contrary to what is in God's Word I suggest we be very careful about assuming it is of the devil/sorcery. But if it is contrary to God's Word we are supposed to close our ears to it. I don't see having a premonition about someone's death as being contrary to anything in the Bible. In fact, there are instances in the Bible where such things are revealed in dreams.
Psssssst I don't believe in ghosts or dead people talking to you either. I chalk this stuff up to the same - nonsense!
Ping to #130 for more info.
Yes, God did in the Bible but this is not the same kind of situation.
BTW, ever count how many times "it is written" is written in the Bible? You should. It's telling.
How does this situation differ? Do you think God only did things in the past and is somehow sitting around twiddling his thumbs today?
You represented yourself as a Christian earlier yet find it offensive when your own Bible is quoted to you?
Bookmark to read later...
You said -- "Have you ever asked yourself WHY YOU are so intolerant?"
On this particular issue -- my position is more tolerant than yours. I'm saying that there are more options than you seem to be willing to consider. You are narrowing down the options. I have widened them out -- and have done so without even violating your own personal opinion of the matter.
Yet, you still seem unwilling to accept it.
You are shutting your eyes to reality, regardless of your personal position on the matter.
From what I've read, it seems very clear that this is not something that was made up "after the fact" -- and therefore represents the "true testimony" of the person involved -- regardless of the matter whether "premonitions" are something valid or not. They don't have to be valid for someone to testify to the fact that they (personally) believe them to be so. And if they do that -- then they are testifying *truthfully* -- even if the basic concept is invalid.
Regards,
Star Traveler
To repeat my earlier post - "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."
Now, there you go again . . . posting heresy. Obviously you didn't get authorization from the TULIP contingent. LOL.
/sar
Great points. God is exceedingly merciful. It's interesting to see how He so often gives such advance notice to His beloved.
I agree. Sounds like he
KNEW BECAUSE HE KNEW BECAUSE HE KNEW.
But the super rationalists have no tolerance for things they can't control, authorize and/or understand.
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