Majority of Serbs back secession from Bosnia, says opinion poll

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Rest+of+the+World&month=July2006&file=World_News2006070674332.xml ^

[kronos77]

BANJA LUKA, Bosnia • A majority of Bosnian Serbs support secession from Bosnia if Serbia's UN-run province of Kosovo was granted independence, a poll published in a Bosnian Serb newspaper yesterday showed.

Forty percent of 850 people polled in Bosnia's Serb Republic fully agree and 22.3 per cent mostly agree with the idea of breaking away and joining Serbia, showed the Partner Marketing poll published in the independent weekly magazine Reporter.

Twenty-eight per cent fully or mostly reject the idea.

The Bosnian Serbs' lingering secession sentiment was revived after the Montenegrin vote in May to end a union with Serbia, which Bosnian Serbs see as their homeland after the breakup of the former Yugoslavia.

It could get a much stronger boost if Kosovo's Albanian majority was allowed, as expected, to declare independence by the end of the year.

The Serb Republic has reluctantly shared Bosnia with a Muslim-Croat federation under the Dayton peace treaty that ended the 1992-95 war in which at least 100,000 people were killed. It was backed by Belgrade in the conflict.

Bosnian Serb politicians dropped secession referendum rhetoric after Western peace officials warned them that it would be contrary to Bosnia's constitution and the terms of the peace treaty and would be met with a resolute response.

But the Bosnian Serb leaders have said it would remain an option if the existence of the Serb Republic-which Muslims and Croats say was created on genocide and ethnic cleansing and want abolished-came under threat.

[kronos77]

You have a drink from me for what you said!

[Hoplite]

if we followed your policy

You're inferring a dichotomy between some imaginary policy I've promulgated vs. American policy under the Bush administration.

Whatever works for you, I guess.

Meanwhile, life goes on, and American policy continues to suck for Serb nationalists.

It's all good.

[FormerLib]

...and American policy continues to suck for Serb nationalists.

Only if you ignore the part about the US military's increased cooperation with the Serbs which the toothless, pancake-flipping Dhimmi known as Ihoppy still can't accept.

[JSDude1]

I am all for serb nationalism: I just don't think ignoring the trechery of the Clinton admin does any good in explaining why we are in this mess: the Bosnian war WAS/IS a mistake for the USA the same for interfering in Kosovo..

BTW I am not infering anything..

In fact I'll probably agree with all that Bush isn't doing enough to exit the USA from the balkins and stop STATE dp from supporting the Bosnians and Albanians (in fact they are supporting them).

[JSDude1]

I am all for serb nationalism: I just don't think ignoring the trechery of the Clinton admin does any good in explaining why we are in this mess: the Bosnian war WAS/IS a mistake for the USA the same for interfering in Kosovo..

BTW I am not infering anything..

In fact I'll probably agree with all that Bush isn't doing enough to exit the USA from the balkins and stop STATE dp from supporting the Bosnians and Albanians (in fact they are supporting them).

[Hoplite]

I am all for serb nationalism

Then you're not for American interests.

It's as simple as that.

Meanwhile, under President Bush, Bosnia has come further along the road to unification, and Kosovo has come further along the road to independence, and America continues to demand that the poster boy of Serbian nationalism, Ratko Mladic, be turned over to the Hague for prosecution for his crimes.

America's present Balkan Policy is being executed by Bush appointed officials, from Condi Rice, down to the Ambassadors and special representatives. However, if you choose to believe that the President is being stymied by an independent State Department due to Clinton holdovers, feel free to continue enjoying your illusion.

BTW I am not infering anything..

Then explain this statement:

if we followed your policy

[JSDude1]

I believed that you were defending Islamic goals in the region; if I have misspoken of your motives, THEN I appolgize.


It would be in America's interest to side with the Serbs over the Islamic (fundamentalist) Nation-states in the region whether the US govt realizes it or not..

[Hoplite]

It's not about me, hoss, it's about American goals and how they're being implemented.

Presently, there are no Islamic (fundamentalist) Nation-states in the region, and we aim to keep it that way. Both Albania and Bosnia have provided troops for Iraq, and though Kosovo volunteered troops, like Serbia, we've made clear to them that they need to take care of their domestic problems before we'll consider their help abroad.

[montyspython]

"You still haven't answered my question. "

He never does.

[tgambill]

If you haven't figured it out already, my posts are to you but not for you. From the MSM there are little or no established fact. How can you actually say that and believe it is beyond my understanding. Show me the facts that I've given and that you dispute or not. If not, that's fine as well. Where is the 10,000? where are the 8,000? for starters. Even if they use the figures of what they did find......it still doesn't add up....:)) No answers are expected.......just rhetorical questions......by the way, your comment that the State Department is not part of the MSM....then why publish fabrications..since no one in the MSM reads the website ....? it must then be published only for state employees???? :)

[flaglady47]

"100% correct! I cannot and will never understand why it is that we (the USA) have not and do not support the Serbs completely. It is Serbia which best represents freedom and democracy in the Balkans as it is today. It is Serbia which has been our historical friend and has fought with us against fascism and terrorists (a perfect example being their struggle against the terrorist KLA)."

I share this sentiment your 100 percent and raise it to 200%.

[infidel_and_proud]

Don't worry. Mr Einstein places complete faith in transcripts made by Islamists who were trained by VEVAK, and made a point of writing these devastating intercepts with no date, no time, no signature, nothing.

For, Monsieur Einstein, this means nothing, for he truly believes that military intel. work this way. Purposely not bothering with any kind of historical accuracy. I mean, when has time ever been a factor in any battle?

For Einstein, time is irrelevant. And since he never bothers with times, why on earth should an army fighting in real time bother either? Time is old hat. Get over it.

The same goes for the medium used to write down these highly damaging intercepts. Childrens notebooks. With elephants on the cover. Pink elephants.

Yes, PINK ELEPHANTS. I really really think that ABiH witnesses at the ICTY were sending us infidel fools one huge message.

Ironic to say the least for LSD produces images of pink elephants.

Anyway, that's by the by, for yet again, Prof. Einstein lives under the illusion that the elite units of any army don't have notebooks and have to spend their time scouring the area for primary school kids books.

You've got to understand the minds of geniuses like Einstein here. They work on a completely different level.

[ma bell]

There are no "Islamamental" states, but their pressure onto the local populace shows what happens - free reign of Iranian agents floating around Kosovo and BiH. Davidovic is one paradigm; the mujas ran out all Serbs and Croats except for one, my friends’ grandmother. She is resolute in staying with my visiting her next summer. HO-HO, now you go run and notify your muslim friends that I'll be in their AO so they can sit and wait for me..

The core fact is the intrusion tolerated by the Clinton WH. It has since been slowed down by the Bush WH. Clintons “look blindly away” to not agitate the natives’ works for a short-term. What you have next is similar to having Mites; they fester, grow and become a grave problem. Solution? It'll get messy.

So, what is happening in Kosovos soon to be independence and the closer cooperation with the Serbian military? Nostalgia from the KLA-Nato alliance, feeding each other better sitreps for a cleaner war next time around. We have a quandary on our hands, so we are drawing down our troops. It will soon come to a head where the Serbian Army will be given the Green Light to move in, close with and destroy the enemy/Albanian KLA/KPCers.

This is much more multifarious and deeper then you can handle, so I will give you time to absorb the aforesaid.

Again, when were you in Kosovo or BiH to know such information? Where?

[tgambill]

"Ratko Mladic, be turned over to the Hague for prosecution for his crimes."

Along with Ceku, Ramush, Thaqi, and a host of other war criminals that are in the Balkans and were with the KLA.

[tgambill]

that's two of us......we are not handling the Balkans correctly at all.....we are also part of an organization to set things straight.

[tgambill]

"am all for serb nationalism"

you wrote:

"Then you're not for American interests."

***** I can't answer for JSD, but no, I am not for my country's interest in the Balkans when it's predicated on the fabrications that started in the early 90's and continued until today. They change the history books, reports to an accurate account and yes, I am for our interests....presence in the Balkans, the pipelines, and getting close to Russia, controlling the influence of Al Queda...but until we set the record straight, NO I am not for America's interest there...how clear is that?

[tgambill]

"Presently, there are no Islamic (fundamentalist) Nation-states in the region, and we aim to keep it that way. "

**** this is interesting, as Al Qaeda operates there and works with the Mafia, and yet they have been under control by the Albanian mafia for as long as we are pushing for kosovo independence. I do know that Islamic fundies came to Kosovo in 1999 trying to push for Kosovo to become a Nation state, but they were not accepted by the Moderate Albanians..... many Serbian Churches have been destroyed, and more than likely the destruction was caused by Albanian extremists making a political statement. "We want Serbs out". One suicide bomber had planned to detonate a bomb within the Bondsteel dining facility and Hamas did plan that operation that killed the American CivPol officers....They are also working on Macedonia. Technically, there are no Islamic Fundamentalist "Nation-states" there. But the Balkans is an Al Qaeda R&R, and planning region.

[Hoplite]

..by the way, your comment that the State Department is not part of the MSM....then why publish fabrications..since no one in the MSM reads the website ....?

Yeah - that's it Tom: The State Department is the party that's spreading lies about the Balkans, rather than you with your "no mass graves in Kosovo" and mindless repetition of Serb nationalist disinformation.

On July 11, we remember the tragic loss of lives in Srebrenica ten years ago. The mass murder of nearly eight thousand men and boys was Europe's worst massacre of civilians since World War II and a grim reminder that there are evil people who will kill the innocent without conscience or mercy. This horrific event remains a source of pain for people in the Balkan region and for all those who believe in freedom and the dignity of human life. I join all Americans in sending our deepest condolences and expressions of sympathy on this solemn occasion.

That's not the State Department, bub, it's the President, from last year. source link

You going to accuse him of being a liar as well?

Go ahead, make my day. Not because it would have any meaning, what with you already having divested yourself of any integrity and relevance you may have had before engaging upon your present course, but because I want to see just how far you're willing to go past accusing our servicemen of being war criminals based upon their participation in Allied Force.

I bring to your attention your statement:

So, the US Lead attack in Kosovo for example was almost one of the worse in history due to its indiscriminate bombing of both Albanians and Serbs....who were just escaping and we in the work place at the wrong time or, purposely targeted, we'll never know. Tom Gambill, 6/30/06

and bring to your attention the following:

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol 1) [source link]

PART IV: CIVILIAN POPULATION

Section 1: General Protection Against Effects of Hostilities

Chapter II: Civilians and Civilian Population

Article 51. Protection of the Civilian Population
4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:
a. those which are not directed at a specific military objective;
b. those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
c. those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.

which our armed forces observe.

AIR FORCE POLICY DIRECTIVE 51-4 [source link .pdf]
16 APRIL 1993
Law
COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW OF ARMED CONFLICT

2. Air Force personnel will comply with LOAC in military operations and related activities during armed conflicts, no matter how these conflicts are characterized.

6. The terms used in this policy are as follows:

6.4. Law of Armed Conflict. All international law which concerns the conduct of hostilities during armed conflict and is binding on the United States or US citizens. It includes international treaties and agreements to which the United States is a party as well as customary international law. These treaties include the 1949 Geneva Conventions and the 1907 Hague Conventions and Regulations, among oth- ers.

So let's summarize, shall we?

You're calling the State Department liars, you're going to have to call the President a liar, and though you're completely oblivious to it, your assertion that we bombed indiscriminately in violation of the Laws of Armed Conflict makes any members of our military who planned, executed, or were aware of and did not correct the missions in question, war criminals.

"Yeah, been here before. Didn't land last time though. You gonna arrest me for war crimes, or what?"

You're a joke Tom. I don't take you seriously, and neither would anybody with half a clue about the things you choose to expound upon.

[tgambill]

"On July 11, we remember the tragic loss of lives in Srebrenica ten years ago. The mass murder of nearly eight thousand men and boys was Europe's worst massacre of civilians since World War II and a grim reminder that there are evil people who will kill the innocent without conscience or mercy. This horrific event remains a source of pain for people in the Balkan region and for all those who believe in freedom and the dignity of human life. I join all Americans in sending our deepest condolences and expressions of sympathy on this solemn occasion."

**** this is an effort to keep the ruse going. So that I won't call the Then Clinton Administation's claim to all these truths, and since we know the "truthful" administrators of the administration....lolol....where are the 8,000 bodies...., the 11,000 killed in Mass graves in Kosovo...the joke is you as you come up with idealistic policy that was not followed. it means nothing as your posts are empty with any proof......of any claim you make.

the current administration cannot go back on the agenda and the mishaps of the clinton administration for many reasons that are over your head. the Balkan intrusion was built on lies and half truths....Its a serious game being played and a quigmare that we are in and can't get out of. Bush has actually done a masterful job where Clinton failed since the day he was born....and continues....I'll leave it at that because this is another thread and a page or two of elaboration.

[tgambill]

your credibility is shot......and not much more needs to be said......

"If Senator Kennedy wants to talk about fraud [in relation to the Bush administration's invasion of Iraq], he ought to talk..... about what he and President Clinton told us in 1999 when they told us to bomb innocent Serbs, we'd find 100 thousand mass graves. Those mass graves were never found. They lied to the America people to justify the aerial bombardment campaign."

Congressman Curt Weldon (R) Pennsylvania on 'Hardball with Chris Matthews'
NBC News, 19 September 2003