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Review of Godless -- (Centers on Evolution)
Powells Review a Day ^ | August 10, 2006 | Jerry Coyne

Posted on 08/17/2006 11:04:51 AM PDT by publius1

Godless: The Church of Liberalism by Ann Coulter Coultergeist A Review by Jerry Coyne

H. L. Mencken once responded to a question asked by many of his readers: "If you find so much that is unworthy of reverence in the United States, then why do you live here?" His answer was, "Why do men go to zoos?" Sadly, Mencken is not here to ogle the newest creature in the American Zoo: the Bleached Flamingo, otherwise known as Ann Coulter. This beast draws crowds by its frequent, raucous calls, eerily resembling a human voice, and its unearthly appearance, scrawny and pallid. (Wikipedia notes that "a white or pale flamingo ... is usually unhealthy or suffering from a lack of food.") The etiolated Coulter issued a piercing squawk this spring with her now-notorious book, Godless: The Church of Liberalism. Its thesis, harebrained even by her standards, is that liberals are an atheistic lot who have devised a substitute religion, replete with the sacraments of abortion, feminism, coddling of criminals, and -- you guessed it -- bestiality. Liberals also have their god, who, like Coulter's, is bearded and imposing. He is none other than Charles Darwin. But the left-wing god is malevolent, for Coulter sees Darwin as the root cause of every ill afflicting our society, not to mention being responsible for the historical atrocities of Hitler and Stalin.

The furor caused by her vicious remarks about the 9/11 widows ("I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much.") has distracted people from the main topic of her book: evolutionary biology, or rather the pathetic pseudoscientific arguments of its modern fundamentalist challenger, Intelligent Design (ID). This occupies four of Coulter's eleven chapters. Enamored of ID, and unable to fathom a scientific reason why biologists don't buy it, Coulter suggests that scientists are an evil sub-cabal of atheist liberals, a group so addicted to godlessness that they must hide at all costs the awful "truth" that evolution didn't happen. She accuses evolutionists of brainwashing children with phony fossils and made-up "evidence," turning the kids into "Darwiniacs" stripped of all moral (i.e., biblical) grounding and prone to become beasts and genocidal lunatics. To Coulter, biologists are folks who, when not playing with test tubes or warping children's minds, encourage people to have sex with dogs. (I am not making this up.)

Any sane person who starts reading Godless will soon ask, Does Coulter really believe this stuff? The answer is that it doesn't much matter. What's far more disturbing than Coulter herself (and she's plenty disturbing: On the cover photo she has the scariest eyes since Rasputin) is the fact that Americans are lapping up her latest prose like a pack of starved cats. The buyers cannot be political opponents who just want to enjoy her "humor"; like me, those people wouldn't enrich her by a dime. (I didn't pay for my copy.) Rather, a lot of folks apparently like her ravings -- suggesting that, on some level at least, they must agree with her. And this means that the hundreds of thousands of Americans who put Coulter at the top of the best-seller lists see evolution as a national menace.

Well, that's hardly news. We've known for years that nearly half of all Americans believe in the Genesis account of creation, and only about 10 percent want evolution taught in public schools without mentioning ID or other forms of creationism. But it's worth taking up the cudgels once again, if only to show that, contrary to Coulter's claim, accepting Darwinism is not tantamount to endorsing immorality and genocide.

First, one has to ask whether Coulter (who, by the way, attacks me in her book) really understands the Darwinism she rejects. The answer is a resounding No. According to the book's acknowledgments, Coulter was tutored in the "complex ideas" of evolution by David Berlinski, a science writer; Michael Behe, a third-rate biologist at Lehigh University (whose own department's website disowns his bizarre ideas); and William Dembski, a fairly bright theologian who went off the intellectual rails and now peddles creationism at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. These are the "giants" of the ID movement, which shows how retarded it really is. Learning biology from this lot is like learning elocution from George W. Bush.

As expected with such tutors, the Darwinism decried by Coulter is the usual distorted cardboard cut-out. All she does is parrot the ID line: There are no transitional fossils; natural selection can't create true novelty; some features of organisms could not have evolved and therefore must have been designed by an unspecified supernatural agent. And her "research" method consists of using quotes taken out of context, scouring biased secondary sources, and distorting what appears in the scientific literature. Judging by the shoddy documentation of the evolution section, I'm not convinced that the rest of the book isn't based on equally shoddy research. At any rate, I won't belabor the case that Coulter makes for ID, as I've already shown in TNR that her arguments are completely bogus.

What is especially striking is Coulter's failure to tell us what she really believes about how the earth's species got here. It's clear that she thinks God had a direct hand in it, but beyond that we remain unenlightened. IDers believe in limited amounts of evolution. Does Coulter think that mammals evolved from reptiles? If not, what are those curious mammal-like reptiles that appear exactly at the right time in the fossil record? Did humans evolve from ape-like primates, or did the Designer conjure us into existence all at once? How did all those annoying fossils get there, in remarkable evolutionary order?

And, when faced with the real evidence that shows how strongly evolution trumps ID, she clams up completely. What about the massive fossil evidence for human evolution -- what exactly were those creatures 2 million years ago that had human-like skeletons but ape-like brains? Did a race of Limbaughs walk the earth? And why did God -- sorry, the Intelligent Designer -- give whales a vestigial pelvis, and the flightless kiwi bird tiny, nonfunctional wings? Why do we carry around in our DNA useless genes that are functional in similar species? Did the Designer decide to make the world look as though life had evolved? What a joker! And the Designer doesn't seem all that intelligent, either. He must have been asleep at the wheel when he designed our appendix, back, and prostate gland.

There are none so blind as those who will not see, and Coulter knows that myopia about evolution is a lucrative game. After all, she is a millionaire, reveling in her status as a celebrity and stalked by ignorazzis. I have never seen anyone enjoy her own inanity so much.

But after ranting for nearly a hundred pages about evolution, Coulter finally gives away the game on page 277: "God exists whether or not archaeopteryx ever evolved into something better. If evolution is true, then God created evolution." Gee. Evolution might be true after all! But she's just spent a hundred pages telling us it isn't! What gives? As Tennessee Williams's Big Daddy said, there's a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room.

What's annoying about Coulter (note: there's more than one thing!) is that she insistently demands evidence for evolution (none of which she'll ever accept), but requires not a shred of evidence for her "alternative hypothesis." She repeatedly assures us that God exists (not just any God -- the Christian God), that there is only one God (she's no Hindu, folks), that we are made in the image of said God, that the Christian Bible, like Antonin Scalia's Constitution, "is not a 'living' document" (that is, not susceptible to changing interpretation; so does she think that Genesis is literally true?), and that God just might have used evolution as part of His plan. What makes her so sure about all this? And how does she know that the Supreme Being, even if It exists, goes by the name of Yahweh, rather than Allah, Wotan, Zeus, or Mabel? If Coulter just knows these things by faith alone, she should say so, and then tell us why she's so sure that what Parsees or Zunis just know is wrong. I, for one, am not prepared to believe that Ann Coulter is made in God's image without seeing some proof.

Moreover, if evolution is wrong, why is it the central paradigm of biology? According to Coulter, it's all a big con game. In smoky back rooms at annual meetings, evolutionists plot ways to jam Darwin down America's throat, knowing that even though it is scientifically incorrect, Darwinism (Coulter says) "lets them off the hook morally. Do whatever you feel like doing -- screw your secretary, kill Grandma, abort your defective child -- Darwin says it will benefit humanity!"

Unfortunately for Coulter (but fortunately for humanity), science doesn't work this way. Scientists gain fame and high reputation not for propping up their personal prejudices, but for finding out facts about nature. And if evolution really were wrong, the renegade scientist who disproved it -- and showed that generations of his predecessors were misled -- would reach the top of the scientific ladder in one leap, gaining fame and riches. All it would take to trash Darwinism is a simple demonstration that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time, or that our closest genetic relative is the rabbit. There is no cabal, no back-room conspiracy. Instead, the empirical evidence for evolution just keeps piling up, year after year.

As for biologists' supposed agenda of godlessness -- how ridiculous! Yes, a lot of scientists are atheists, but most have better things to do than deliberately destroy people's faith. This goes doubly for the many scientists -- roughly a third of them -- who are religious. After all, one of the most vocal (and effective) opponents of ID is Ken Miller of Brown University, a devout Catholic.

The real reason Coulter goes after evolution is not because it's wrong, but because she doesn't like it -- it doesn't accord with how she thinks the world should be. That's because she feels, along with many Americans, that "Darwin's theory overturned every aspect of Biblical morality." What's so sad -- not so much for Coulter as for Americans as a whole -- is that this idea is simply wrong. Darwinism, after all, is just a body of thought about the origin and change of biological diversity, not a handbook of ethics. (I just consulted my copy of The Origin of Species, and I swear that there's nothing in there about abortion or eugenics, much less about shtupping one's secretary.)

If Coulter were right, evolutionists would be the most beastly people on earth, not to be trusted in the vicinity of a goat. But I've been around biologists all of my adult life, and I can tell you that they're a lot more civil than, say, Coulter. It's a simple fact that you don't need the Bible -- or even religion -- to be moral. Buddhists, Hindus, and Jews, who don't follow the New Testament, usually behave responsibly despite this problem; and atheists and agnostics derive morality from non-biblical philosophy. In fact, one of the most ethical people I know is Coulter's version of the Antichrist: the atheistic biologist Richard Dawkins (more about that below). Dawkins would never say -- as Coulter does -- that Cindy Sheehan doesn't look good in shorts, that Al Franken resembles a monkey, or that 9/11 widows enjoyed the deaths of their husbands. Isn't there something in the Bible about doing unto others?

The mistake of equating Darwinism with a code of behavior leads Coulter into her most idiotic accusation: that the Holocaust and numberless murders of Stalin can be laid at Darwin's door. "From Marx to Hitler, the men responsible for the greatest mass murders of the twentieth century were avid Darwinists." Anyone who is religious should be very careful about saying something like this, because, throughout history, more killings have been done in the name of religion than of anything else. What's going on in the Middle East, and what happened in Serbia and Northern Ireland? What was the Inquisition about, and the Crusades, and the slaughter following the partition of India? Religion, of course -- or rather, religiously inspired killing. (Come to think of it, the reason Hitler singled out the Jews is that Christians regarded them for centuries as the killers of Christ. And I don't remember any mention of Darwinism in the Moscow Doctors' Trial.) If Darwin is guilty of genocide, then so are God, Jesus, Brahma, Martin Luther, and countless popes.

As Coulter well knows, the misuse of an idea for evil purposes does not mean that idea is wrong. In fact, she accuses liberals of making this very error: She attacks them for worrying that the message of racial inequality conveyed by the book The Bell Curve could promote genocide: "Only liberals could interpret a statement that people have varying IQs as a call to start killing people." Back at you, Ann: Only conservatives could interpret a statement that species evolved as a call to start killing people.

Coulter clearly knows better. I conclude that the trash-talking blonde bit is just a shtick (admittedly, a clever one) calculated to make her rich and famous. (Look at her website, where she whines regularly that she is not getting enough notice.) Her hyper-conservativism seems no more grounded than her faith. She has claimed that the Bible is her favorite book, she is rumored to go to church, and on the cover of Godless you see a cross dangling tantalizingly in her décolletage. But could anybody who absorbed the Sermon on the Mount write, as she does of Richard Dawkins, "I defy any of my coreligionists to tell me they do not laugh at the idea of Dawkins burning in hell"? Well, I wouldn't want Coulter to roast (there's not much meat there anyway), but I wish she'd shut up and learn something about evolution. Her case for ID involves the same stupid arguments that fundamentalists have made for a hundred years. They're about as convincing as the blonde hair that gets her so much attention. By their roots shall ye know them.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: anncoulter; anothercrevothread; bookreview; coulter; crevolist; enoughalready; genesis1; irreligiousleft; jerklist; pavlovian; thewordistruth
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My favorite quote in this: "... if evolution is wrong, why is it the central paradigm of biology..."

All seriousness aside, are there Freepers who understand the evolution/ID stuff well enough to give me--and others--a set of brains on it?

1 posted on 08/17/2006 11:04:54 AM PDT by publius1
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To: publius1
All seriousness aside, are there Freepers who understand the evolution/ID stuff well enough to give me--and others--a set of brains on it?

Not without 'Christians who believe in Creationism are like the Taliban' comments coming out.
2 posted on 08/17/2006 11:09:07 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: publius1

I guess he didn't like the book. lol


3 posted on 08/17/2006 11:09:26 AM PDT by BlueSky194
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To: publius1
What's far more disturbing than Coulter herself ... is the fact that Americans are lapping up her latest prose like a pack of starved cats.

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." -- William F. Buckley

4 posted on 08/17/2006 11:09:45 AM PDT by tx_eggman (Islamofascism ... bringing you the best of the 7th century for the past 1300 years.)
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To: publius1
All seriousness aside, are there Freepers who understand the evolution/ID stuff well enough to give me--and others--a set of brains on it?

Well, the easy answer is the Evolution is the most obvious conclusion to be drawn from observed data as reached by the vast majority of scientists who study this sort of thing.

ID is basically religious dogma restated in scientific terms to lend credibility to that which isn't credible.

That said, I read "Godless" and loved it until the chapter on evolution. Ann has flaws and that is clearly one of them but it doesn't detract from the rest of her work.
5 posted on 08/17/2006 11:09:45 AM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: publius1

I hadn't realized tht Powell's allows for responses. I'm sharing this one because it is so... soo... well, because there is no word for what it is that allows thwe writer to stll be human...

Marianne says:

August 13th, 2006 at 1:56 am
You write beautifully and I'll admit I'm only half way through it, but I simply must point out that it is not true that every one is lapping it up. You must be basing that on her book sales.

Believe me they are bought up by Regnery Books and the likes of Foundations funded by Richard Mellon Scaife. The hard rights equivalent of the lefts George Soros. Then the books are handed out freely to true believers. The title says it all. (though, it's doubtful they would admit buy blocks of book. I'm certain David Brock, the President of Media Matters.org and author of Blinded by the Right, would know. I seem to remember reading in his book that they did that routinely, at least with their own published authors) It's not a conspiracy theroy. It's hard ball politics. Down and dirty. And, it's smart strategy. Their investments in buying up blocks of her books makes her rating on the NY Times Book list go up and that open her up to shows like Good Morning America, Hardball on MSNBC, The Tonight Show, ect. The fact that she's attractive doesn't hurt her there either. Matthews gushed all over her and even allowed her 30 nauseating minutes to spew her venom and insults to hafe the country. You see, the term Liberal, to her, means any one who happens to disagree with her,or the current Administration or any number of other social issues. Let's face it, she's a self-hating feminist. LOL.

So, please, don't be fooled. I don't know anyone who can even stand her for more than two minutes. Even my horny brother who happend to catch her on the tube on day ended up screaming at the top of his lungs at the TV set to "shut the F* up!!) He hates big mouth women who think they know every thing and interupt constantly. Most folks I know can't stand her. Even the ones who don't care about politics. They watch much like one watches a train wreck.

She's in her 40's now and her look are starting to fade...so then what. By then I suppose she'll be rich enough it won't matter. But one thing is certain. The country will be much poorer.

Thanks for your beautifully written review. Very descriptive.

Best,
Marianne
Bonney Lake, WA


6 posted on 08/17/2006 11:12:20 AM PDT by publius1 (Just to be clear: my position is no.)
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To: publius1
Rules are rules ...


7 posted on 08/17/2006 11:13:47 AM PDT by tx_eggman (Islamofascism ... bringing you the best of the 7th century for the past 1300 years.)
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To: publius1

I stopped reading after the "scrawny and pallid" remark. If Coulter had been fat and black would the writer have used "squat and dusky"?

I doubt it.


8 posted on 08/17/2006 11:13:53 AM PDT by Gingersnap
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To: publius1

Oh jeeze... you just opened a can of worms.

It is hard to tell who are the more fanatical zealots: the rabid Creationists or the militant Evolutionists.


9 posted on 08/17/2006 11:15:22 AM PDT by Thrusher ("...there is no peace without victory.")
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To: publius1
"To Coulter, biologists are folks who, when not playing with test tubes or warping children's minds, encourage people to have sex with dogs. (I am not making this up.) "

To be fair, there has been a lot of sex with monkey threads lately.

10 posted on 08/17/2006 11:17:10 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Sounds like something that would be on Jerry Springer.
Then again, he has like the highest ratings in the mourning.


11 posted on 08/17/2006 11:18:27 AM PDT by BlueSky194
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===> Placemarker <===
12 posted on 08/17/2006 11:18:54 AM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: publius1
"And this means that the hundreds of thousands of Americans who put Coulter at the top of the best-seller lists see evolution as a national menace. "

Not "hundreds of thousands". Don't be ridiculous! It's more like 77% of the population. It's hundreds of millions that don't buy evolution.

13 posted on 08/17/2006 11:18:55 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: publius1
After all, she is a millionaire, reveling in her status as a celebrity and stalked by ignorazzis.

Oh the height of jealousy.

14 posted on 08/17/2006 11:19:55 AM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: publius1

Who is this chickensh*t Coyne?

Behe is labeled a "third rate" biologist? Why? Because he has elected to challenge the enforced dogma of evolution?

Anyone who has read Behe or heard him speak would come away quite impressed with his intellect. Quite a formidable mind.


15 posted on 08/17/2006 11:23:25 AM PDT by Elpasser
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To: publius1
All seriousness aside, are there Freepers who understand the evolution/ID stuff well enough to give me--and others--a set of brains on it?

All seriousness aside, it's been tried, but the transplant is generally rejected.

16 posted on 08/17/2006 11:23:47 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: publius1

at the risk of engendering controversy (sly grin) here, I am going to state what I think about ID.

ID is ***not*** science. It is not a *scientific* alternative to the Theory of Evolution (tm) because it is not science in the first place.

It is entirely possible that the theory of evolution (which includes Interspecial and Intraspecial evolution. ID'ers usually only have a problem with the former btw) is fundamentally wrong. It would not be the first example of consensus scientific theory that was overthrown by a new theory.

However...

it is BY FAR the most scientific supported theory out there. And it cannot be countered, in the scientific realm, by promoting ID. Because ID is not science.

Famously, when the Soviets shot the first men into space, they declared that this proved god did not exist. That of course is absurd, since the scientific fact that sputnik did not crash into the pearly gates (and the russians get cited for hit and run) is not proof of the nonexistence is god.

Similarly, the facts that the theory of evolution has holes in it (all scientific theories of any breadth whatsoever do) does not mean that ID is a valid counter to evolution.

Heck, ID'ers may be right. But that's kind of irrelevant to the fact that they are not promoting SCIENCE and ID has no place in a science classroom. Nor does politics, but that's another topic :)

ID absolutely has a place in a class on religious philosophy or metaphysics. But not in science

To 'give you a set of brains' on ID as you request, ID basically boils down to

1) evolution is not a complete theory
2) there is this ":irreducible complexity' in organisms that means "god did it"

Evolution boils down to

1) organisms adapt to environment
2) given sufficient time/generations, increasing complexity can result


17 posted on 08/17/2006 11:24:27 AM PDT by dryden
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To: Elpasser

Not really. His IC isn't exactly accurate.


18 posted on 08/17/2006 11:27:42 AM PDT by Dante Alighieri
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To: publius1
This guy deserves a thorough dissection. I've only got time for one part of it, though:

Anyone who is religious should be very careful about saying something like this, because, throughout history, more killings have been done in the name of religion than of anything else.

False. The greatest mass murders in history have been perpetrated by the godless (atheistic communists).

What's going on in the Middle East...

Islamofascists are trying to dominate.

... and what happened in Serbia...

Islamofascists tried to dominate.

... and Northern Ireland?

There! Christians were murdering each other.

What was the Inquisition about...

Purging Moors and their sympathizers from the halls of Spanish government.

... and the Crusades...

Pushing the Muslims out from the land they conquered and subjugated.

... and the slaughter following the partition of India?

Islamofascists tried to dominate.

----------------

There's a common thread throughout his examples that's hard to get a grasp on...

19 posted on 08/17/2006 11:30:53 AM PDT by pgyanke (Christ embraces sinners; liberals embrace the sin.)
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To: pgyanke

You're joking right? You're justifying the Inquisition and all that?


20 posted on 08/17/2006 11:32:24 AM PDT by Dante Alighieri
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To: publius1
""I defy any of my coreligionists to tell me they do not laugh at the idea of Dawkins burning in hell"?

If Coulter said this, then this is really indefensibile. No Christian who has matured in love really wants to see anyone roast in hell. But there are many immature Christians. Probably all Christians are immature in some ways.

And even the prophet Jonah was angry when God spared Ninevah. Which really was the bigger point of Jonah, not Jonah's disobedience and being swallowed by the fish, but Jonah's lack of love for the people of Ninevah whom God had created. So while Coulter is wrong in laughing at the thought of Dawkins burning, she isn't the first to be wrong.

21 posted on 08/17/2006 11:32:33 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: publius1

Another hack collects a paycheck by bashing Ann.


22 posted on 08/17/2006 11:33:57 AM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: publius1
"Its thesis, harebrained even by her standards, is that liberals are an atheistic lot who have devised a substitute religion, replete with the sacraments of abortion, feminism, coddling of criminals, and -- you guessed it -- bestiality."

Of course, bestiality. What other explanation is there for the physical appearance of the half-animals that always show up at demonstrations for liberal causes??

23 posted on 08/17/2006 11:38:15 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: b_sharp; Ichneumon; longshadow; CarolinaGuitarman; Thatcherite; Coyoteman; js1138; Junior; ...
Pinging "The Few"

24 posted on 08/17/2006 11:44:58 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Everything is blasphemy to somebody.)
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To: PatrickHenry

The few, the proud, the absent.


25 posted on 08/17/2006 11:50:20 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: Dante Alighieri

I'm not joking. Read the real history. There were abuses but nowhere near what has been alleged. Most of the abuses were not by the Church but by political leaders who used the process against their detractors. Although I admit there were abuses by representatives of the Church...


26 posted on 08/17/2006 11:59:17 AM PDT by pgyanke (Christ embraces sinners; liberals embrace the sin.)
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To: pgyanke

Interesting. I never knew that it was that easy to revise history.


27 posted on 08/17/2006 12:00:49 PM PDT by Dante Alighieri
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To: Filo

"Well, the easy answer is the Evolution is the most obvious conclusion to be drawn from observed data as reached by the vast majority of scientists who study this sort of thing.

ID is basically religious dogma restated in scientific terms to lend credibility to that which isn't credible."

Right. Evolution is basically religious dogma restated in scientific terms.

The fact of creation is according to the Word of The Creator. He doesn't lie, nor does he readjust his theories every once in a while because he lacked enough insight. He doesn't have to, because He's right the first time.

Speaking of that, why should he "evolve" man when he knew what the finished product would be like before he ever created a lizard? Henry Ford had no idea what a Mustang would look like, so he started with what he knew and other men built on that. Can't you see that God, who sees the entire future, has no need for product development?


28 posted on 08/17/2006 12:05:00 PM PDT by RoadTest (Secure our borders, not our marines.)
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To: Elpasser
Anyone who has read Behe or heard him speak would come away quite impressed with his intellect.

I have heard Behe speak. He comes across as a religous charlatan, sort of on the Benny Hinn level. I found his arguments unconvincing as well as some of his facts simply erroneous.

29 posted on 08/17/2006 12:08:23 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Dante Alighieri

You gonna stand there and make snarky comments or set the record straight?


30 posted on 08/17/2006 12:14:13 PM PDT by pgyanke (Christ embraces sinners; liberals embrace the sin.)
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To: RoadTest
Evolution is basically religious dogma restated in scientific terms.

Wrong. Evolution is a scientific theory based on facts. Check out these definitions (from a google search, with additions from this thread) then note the paragraphs at the bottom:

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses." Addendum: "Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws." (Courtesy of VadeRetro.)

Theory: A scientifically testable general principle or body of principles offered to explain observed phenomena. In scientific usage, a theory is distinct from a hypothesis (or conjecture) that is proposed to explain previously observed phenomena. For a hypothesis to rise to the level of theory, it must predict the existence of new phenomena that are subsequently observed. A theory can be overturned if new phenomena are observed that directly contradict the theory. [Source]

When a scientific theory has a long history of being supported by verifiable evidence, it is appropriate to speak about "acceptance" of (not "belief" in) the theory; or we can say that we have "confidence" (not "faith") in the theory. It is the dependence on verifiable data and the capability of testing that distinguish scientific theories from matters of faith.

Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices."

Proof: Except for math and geometry, there is little that is actually proved. Even well-established scientific theories can't be conclusively proved, because--at least in principle--a counter-example might be discovered. Scientific theories are always accepted provisionally, and are regarded as reliable only because they are supported (not proved) by the verifiable facts they purport to explain and by the predictions which they successfully make. All scientific theories are subject to revision (or even rejection) if new data are discovered which necessitates this.

Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics."

Model: a simplified representation designed to illuminate complex processes; a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; a physical or mathematical representation of a process that can be used to predict some aspect of the process.

Speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence). When a scientist speculates he is drawing on experience, patterns and somewhat unrelated things that are known or appear to be likely. This becomes a very informed guess.

Guess: an opinion or estimate based on incomplete evidence, or on little or no information.

Assumption: premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"

Impression: a vague or subjective idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying."

Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.

Observation: any information collected with the senses.

Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions.

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact.

Truth: This is a word best avoided entirely in physics [and science] except when placed in quotes, or with careful qualification. Its colloquial use has so many shades of meaning from ‘it seems to be correct’ to the absolute truths claimed by religion, that it’s use causes nothing but misunderstanding. Someone once said "Science seeks proximate (approximate) truths." Others speak of provisional or tentative truths. Certainly science claims no final or absolute truths. Source.

Science: a method of learning about the world by applying the principles of the scientific method, which includes making empirical observations, proposing hypotheses to explain those observations, and testing those hypotheses in valid and reliable ways; also refers to the organized body of knowledge that results from scientific study.

Religion: Theistic: 1. the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2. the expression of this in worship. 3. a particular system of faith and worship.

Religion: Non-Theistic: The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. Essentially, religion is belief in spiritual beings. As it relates to the world, religion is a system of beliefs and practices by means of which a group of people struggles with the ultimate problems of human life.

Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith.

Faith: the belief in something for which there is no material evidence or empirical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or observation. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without evidence.

Some good definitions, as used in physics, can be found: Here.

Based on these, evolution is a theory. CS and ID are beliefs.

[Last revised 7/16/06]


From an NSF abstract:

As with all scientific knowledge, a theory can be refined or even replaced by an alternative theory in light of new and compelling evidence. The geocentric theory that the sun revolves around the earth was replaced by the heliocentric theory of the earth's rotation on its axis and revolution around the sun. However, ideas are not referred to as "theories" in science unless they are supported by bodies of evidence that make their subsequent abandonment very unlikely. When a theory is supported by as much evidence as evolution, it is held with a very high degree of confidence.

In science, the word "hypothesis" conveys the tentativeness inherent in the common use of the word "theory.' A hypothesis is a testable statement about the natural world. Through experiment and observation, hypotheses can be supported or rejected. At the earliest level of understanding, hypotheses can be used to construct more complex inferences and explanations. Like "theory," the word "fact" has a different meaning in science than it does in common usage. A scientific fact is an observation that has been confirmed over and over. However, observations are gathered by our senses, which can never be trusted entirely. Observations also can change with better technologies or with better ways of looking at data. For example, it was held as a scientific fact for many years that human cells have 24 pairs of chromosomes, until improved techniques of microscopy revealed that they actually have 23. Ironically, facts in science often are more susceptible to change than theories, which is one reason why the word "fact" is not much used in science.

Finally, "laws" in science are typically descriptions of how the physical world behaves under certain circumstances. For example, the laws of motion describe how objects move when subjected to certain forces. These laws can be very useful in supporting hypotheses and theories, but like all elements of science they can be altered with new information and observations.

Those who oppose the teaching of evolution often say that evolution should be taught as a "theory, not as a fact." This statement confuses the common use of these words with the scientific use. In science, theories do not turn into facts through the accumulation of evidence. Rather, theories are the end points of science. They are understandings that develop from extensive observation, experimentation, and creative reflection. They incorporate a large body of scientific facts, laws, tested hypotheses, and logical inferences. In this sense, evolution is one of the strongest and most useful scientific theories we have.

Modified from RadioAstronomers's post #27 on another thread.


31 posted on 08/17/2006 12:14:37 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: PatrickHenry

gah.
feh.


32 posted on 08/17/2006 12:20:07 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: publius1

I was prepared to really hate Coulter's discussion of evolution--didn't even read it for weeks after I'd finished the rest of the book--but actually, it's quite interesting. I wondered how a biologist on the other team would respond. Now I see: He responds with the same malice he criticizes in Coulter herself, without once responding to her argument.


33 posted on 08/17/2006 12:29:55 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: publius1

The author of this article just makes Ann's point. She talks of Darwinism, he of evolution. Indeed, the entire tenor of his remarks outline what Ann was talking about. Darwinists cannot tolerate any criticism of their faith.


34 posted on 08/17/2006 12:37:16 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: madprof98

He, in the actual article, linked to his discussion of Ann's points here: http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050822&s=coyne082205


35 posted on 08/17/2006 12:37:35 PM PDT by Dante Alighieri
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
Darwinists cannot tolerate any criticism of their faith.

See post #31.

36 posted on 08/17/2006 12:39:55 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: js1138

"We few, we happy band of tortoise-lovers..."


37 posted on 08/17/2006 12:51:51 PM PDT by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his ninth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: Dante Alighieri; pgyanke
You're joking right? You're justifying the Inquisition and all that?

I don't know what you mean by "all that", but the inquisitions, as opposed to the myths about them, were good things for the most part.

The Real Inquisition

38 posted on 08/17/2006 12:52:43 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Dante Alighieri; pgyanke
Sorry bad link, try this one:

The Real Inquisition

39 posted on 08/17/2006 12:55:41 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: BlueSky194

I think he did like the book. It gave him a perfect opportunity to vomit bile on the American public.The article is so painfully ad hominem it can not stand on its own. There is no there there in this rancid and bloviated rant.


40 posted on 08/17/2006 1:01:46 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (Here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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To: Coyoteman

Posting dense, obtuse and voluminous torts is not an answer to any but judges with too much time on their hands.


41 posted on 08/17/2006 1:07:40 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (Here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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To: js1138; PatrickHenry
Did someone say "formidable intellect"? We report, you decide:

Not a single expert witness over the course of the six week trial identified one major scientific association, society or organization that endorsed ID as science. What is more, defense experts concede that ID is not a theory as that term is defined by the NAS and admit that ID is at best "fringe science" which has achieved no acceptance in the scientific community. (21:37-38 (Behe); Fuller Dep. at 98-101, June 21, 2005; 28:47 (Fuller); Minnich Dep. at 89, May 26, 2005). P. 70

75 By defining irreducible complexity in the way that he has, Professor Behe attempts to exclude the phenomenon of exaptation by definitional fiat, ignoring as he does so abundant evidence which refutes his argument. Notably, the NAS has rejected Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity by using the following cogent reasoning:

[S]tructures and processes that are claimed to be 'irreducibly' complex typically are not on closer inspection. For example, it is incorrect to assume that a complex structure or biochemical process can function only if all its components are present and functioning as we see them today. Complex biochemical systems can be built up from simpler systems through natural selection. Thus, the 'history' of a protein can be traced through simpler organisms . . . The evolution of complex molecular systems can occur in several ways. Natural selection can bring together parts of a system for one function at one time and then, at a later time, recombine those parts with other systems of components to produce a system that has a different function. Genes can be duplicated, altered, and then amplified through natural selection. The complex biochemical cascade resulting in blood clotting has been explained in this fashion. P-192 at 22.

As irreducible complexity is only a negative argument against evolution, it is refutable and accordingly testable, unlike ID, by showing that there are intermediate structures with selectable functions that could have evolved into the allegedly irreducibly complex systems. (2:15-16 (Miller)). Importantly, however, the fact that the negative argument of irreducible complexity is testable does not make testable the argument for ID. (2:15 (Miller); 5:39 (Pennock)). Professor Behe has applied the concept of irreducible complexity to only a few select systems: (1) the bacterial flagellum; (2) the blood-clotting cascade; and (3) the immune system. Contrary to Professor Behe's assertions with respect to these few biochemical systems among the myriad existing in nature, however, Dr. Miller presented evidence, based upon peer-reviewed studies, that they are not in fact irreducibly complex.

Case 4:04-cv-02688-JEJ Document 342 Filed 12/20/2005 Page 76 of 139

And lastly we have the judge's observations of these real gems from Behe's testimony:

On cross-examination, Professor Behe admitted that: "There are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred"(22:22-23 (Behe)). Additionally, Professor Behe conceded that there are no peer-reviewed papers supporting his claims that complex molecular systems, like the bacterial flagellum, the blood-clotting cascade, and the immune system, were intelligently designed. (21:61-62 (complex molecular systems), 23:4-5 (immune system), and 22:124-25 (blood-clotting cascade) (Behe)). In that regard, there are no peer-reviewed articles supporting Professor Behe's argument that certain complex molecular structures are "irreducibly complex."17 (21:62, 22:124-25 (Behe)). In addition to failing to produce papers in peer-reviewed journals, ID also features no scientific research or testing. (28:114-15 (Fuller); 18:22-23, 105-06 (Behe)). After this searching and careful review of ID as espoused by its proponents,

Case 4:04-cv-02688-JEJ Document 342 Filed 12/20/2005 Page 89 of 139

as elaborated upon in submissions to the Court, and as scrutinized over a six week trial, we find that ID is not science and cannot be adjudged a valid, accepted scientific theory as it has failed to publish in peer-reviewed journals, engage in research and testing, and gain acceptance in the scientific community. ID, as noted, is grounded in theology, not science. Accepting for the sake of argument its proponents', as well as Defendants' argument that to introduce ID to students will encourage critical thinking, it still has utterly no place in a science curriculum. Moreover, ID's backers have sought to avoid the scientific scrutiny which we have now determined that it cannot withstand by advocating that the controversy, but not ID itself, should be taught in science class. This tactic is at best disingenuous, and at worst a canard. The goal of the IDM is not to encourage critical thought, but to foment a revolution which would supplant evolutionary theory with ID. To conclude and reiterate, we express no opinion on the ultimate veracity of ID as a supernatural explanation. However, we commend to the attention of those who are inclined to superficially consider ID to be a true "scientific" alternative to evolution without a true understanding of the concept the foregoing detailed analysis. It is our view that a reasonable, objective observer would, after reviewing both the voluminous record in this case, and our narrative, reach the inescapable conclusion that ID is an interesting theological argument, but that it is not science.

Case 4:04-cv-02688-JEJ Document 342 Filed 12/20/2005 Page 90 of 139

Source: Kitzmiller et al. v Dover Area School District et al..

In view of Behe's stunning performance on the witness stand, one is moved to opine that a wooden dummy couldn't have done any worse.

Formidable intellect, indeed.

42 posted on 08/17/2006 1:08:10 PM PDT by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his ninth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: publius1

What was the point of posting this?

If you have questions about evolution, freepmail a fella with the handle "Patrick Henry" and he will add you to the evolution pinglist.

Or check out his Freep-page. There are lots of helpful links posted there.


43 posted on 08/17/2006 1:12:10 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: JamesP81

Why don't you wait for the persecution before keening over it.


44 posted on 08/17/2006 1:12:53 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: DannyTN

Reread that sentence.


45 posted on 08/17/2006 1:15:06 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: publius1
Too many ad hominems to be taken seriously. This guy obviously bears a personal grudge against Ann--as if she insulted his religion.

And considering the article, maybe she did. He should just declare her a witch and demand that she and her book be burned.
46 posted on 08/17/2006 1:16:02 PM PDT by Antoninus (Public schools are the madrassas of the American Left. --Ann Coulter, Godless)
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To: Dante Alighieri
You're joking right? You're justifying the Inquisition and all that?

Find me a court in Europe that produced less death sentences than the Inquisition over the same time period and then maybe we can have a rational discussion about it.
47 posted on 08/17/2006 1:20:15 PM PDT by Antoninus (Public schools are the madrassas of the American Left. --Ann Coulter, Godless)
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To: RoadTest
Evolution is basically religious dogma restated in scientific terms.

No, it isn't.

The fact of creation is according to the Word of The Creator.

Moses wrote the NT. You believe he was told what to write by God. THAT is religious dogma. That is your faith, not evidence.

Speaking of that, why should he "evolve" man when he knew what the finished product would be like before he ever created a lizard?

Why shouldn't he? You seem to think God wouldn't work that way.

Evolution doesn't mean that God wouldn't know what he would create.

48 posted on 08/17/2006 1:21:21 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: Dante Alighieri
Interesting. I never knew that it was that easy to revise history.

It's quite easy when you discover that the "history" you were taught was based on polemical literature and does not correspond to the primary sources.
49 posted on 08/17/2006 1:21:35 PM PDT by Antoninus (Public schools are the madrassas of the American Left. --Ann Coulter, Godless)
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To: Amos the Prophet

People who usually post on science threads aren't afraid to read.

Dense and obtuse? You have to be kidding.


50 posted on 08/17/2006 1:23:14 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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