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Airline terror baggage ban hits a bum note: musicians
AFP ^ | Sun Sep 10 | Katherine Haddon

Posted on 09/10/2006 8:02:03 PM PDT by Westlander

A group of top classical musicians has warned of the threat to artistic life from a hand baggage ban introduced after police foiled an alleged bomb plot against transatlantic airliners.

Many performers refuse to let their instruments, often centuries old and extremely valuable, out of their sight when they travel on planes in case they are damaged in the hold.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: airline; bags; ban; musicians; rop; terror; terrorwar; trop; waronterror
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1 posted on 09/10/2006 8:02:07 PM PDT by Westlander
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To: Westlander
A group of top classical musicians has warned of the threat to artistic life

Ohh boo friggin hooo being an "artistic type' is soooo hard wah wah wah.

2 posted on 09/10/2006 8:06:43 PM PDT by badpacifist (Stop the suffrage of uninformed voters)
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To: Westlander

Dang it, now those Middle Eastern err, um, "bands" flying out to Vegas will have to go to Plan B.


3 posted on 09/10/2006 8:07:11 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: badpacifist

Yea, fault the western musicians who don't want to sacrifice 300 years + of western christian music tradition based on muslim produced fear. I am all for these musicians.


4 posted on 09/10/2006 8:09:57 PM PDT by The Cuban
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To: Westlander
A group of top classical musicians has warned of the threat to artistic life.

Change careers to become contemporary artists by using your instruments as platforms to cover with elephant dung.

5 posted on 09/10/2006 8:10:02 PM PDT by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: Westlander

New tactic.

Terrorists disguised as "artists" will whine endlessly about the damage done to their art until the pilot, of his own free will, crashes the plane into the ground.

No need for box cutters or explosives.


6 posted on 09/10/2006 8:10:45 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: badpacifist

Not a lot of chamber music gets to your trailer park, does it?


7 posted on 09/10/2006 8:12:08 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: Westlander

As a frequent flyer, I feel for these guys.


8 posted on 09/10/2006 8:14:03 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast
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To: Westlander

"Many performers refuse to let their instruments, often centuries old and extremely valuable, out of their sight when they travel on planes in case they are damaged in the hold.
"

smart, luggage flies meters when thrown, can have very heavy items dropped from above onto it, etc.


9 posted on 09/10/2006 8:14:30 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: Westlander

Well, it's stupid. I wouldn't let my hi-priced fiddle out of my sight, either. I've never minded checking Fender Gtars though, they're built like canoe paddles. If we'd just...I don't know, maybe...PROFILE, and make Muslims check their "centuries old" fiddles, we'd be safe enough.


10 posted on 09/10/2006 8:14:54 PM PDT by genetic homophobe (it lay dormant most of my life)
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To: badpacifist

So you prefer to have a ban on carry-on luggage as opposed to ban on terrorists?

It'd be safer to simply ban Muslims from flying...

...instead of allowing Muslims to fly, but banning anything that could possibly ever be used to fashion any sort of item that could ever be considered harmful.


11 posted on 09/10/2006 8:16:51 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (I criticize everyone... and then breath some radioactive fire and stomp on things.)
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To: Westlander

I'm with the musicians on this one. When I played sax, no way would I ever let me tenor out of my sight. It was not worth anything near a Stradivarius, but it was irreplaceable and easily damaged.


12 posted on 09/10/2006 8:18:43 PM PDT by July 4th (A vacant lot cancelled out my vote for Bush.)
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To: Westlander

I understand their concerns.

I knew a bagpiper who checked his pipes. When he saw the case come up on the carousel, he noticed that one latch was unlocked. Grabbing the case and flinging it open, he realized that his worst nightmare had come true:

Someone had put a second set of bagpipes in.


13 posted on 09/10/2006 8:21:37 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("I've never seen so many testicles in my life.")
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To: July 4th

30K Cello, top dollar hard case...

destroyed.

Thanks US Air.

No comp., wasn't marked "delicate", "Fragile, Musical instrumant" not good enough.


14 posted on 09/10/2006 8:23:00 PM PDT by sschaloc
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To: badpacifist
Sorry, dude. I'm a professional musician. Ever seen someone's livelihood destroyed by a baggage handler? I have. There are some musical instruments that are not replaceable. I know a cellist who had an instrument that was worth over $100,000 dollars- and it arrived at her destination destroyed. It was a serious blow to her finances and her career that she is still recovering from to this day (that's with the insurance policy, as well) and that was eight years ago. Hell, I've had three thousand dollars of damage done to my trumpets in flight before. So remember- this can actually cause someone a significant problem. I don't care if you're a plumber, a carpenter, and electrician, or a musician- you can't do the job without the right tools.

"Ohh boo friggin hooo being an "artistic type' is soooo hard wah wah wah."

Also remember, a professional ballplayer is considered to be fantastic if get gets a hit every third try. Musicians have to be perfect. You miss once, you get fired. Just imagine what your favorite band would sound like if they missed two thirds of the notes!!!

I have worked too hard for my entire life in the effort to achieve perfection solely for other peoples enjoyment for your comment to go unanswered.
15 posted on 09/10/2006 8:25:43 PM PDT by musical_airman (You don't wield supreme autocratic power just because some watery tart lobs a scimitar at you!?!?!)
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To: Slings and Arrows
Someone had put a second set of bagpipes in.

LOL! Shame on you! For some strange reason, I love bagpipe music. I don't understand why people don't like it.

On a serious note, these instruments are how the musicians earn their living. A bang, a dent, can ruin a guitar as much as it can a concert violin. We need to get smart about airline travel and start PROFILING. Leave grandma and Yo Yo Ma alone.

16 posted on 09/10/2006 8:27:09 PM PDT by radiohead (Hey Kerry, I'm still here; still hating your lying, stinking, guts you coward.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Nice flame ....funny too! We who fly all have hassles now. Artists just whine louder and maybe have better tone than the rest of us out here.


17 posted on 09/10/2006 8:27:58 PM PDT by badpacifist (Stop the suffrage of uninformed voters)
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To: radiohead

I love pipe music too...and pipe jokes.

And I quite agree re the musicians - I play, and I'd never check an instrument.


18 posted on 09/10/2006 8:33:12 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("I've never seen so many testicles in my life.")
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To: radiohead
On a serious note, these instruments are how the musicians earn their living.

Musical instruments are not the only ones at risk. Sometimes I travel with carefully calibrated electronic instruments. Having those bashed in the baggage hold would negate the purpose of the trip, even if the instruments weren't permanently damaged and could be re-calibrated once I got home again.

19 posted on 09/10/2006 8:34:35 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (My book is out. Read excerpts at www.thejusticecooperative.com)
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To: Westlander

The idiocy of a one-size-fits-all bureaucracy. There must be a way to inspect and bond those instruments, especially when prior arrangements are made.


20 posted on 09/10/2006 8:35:33 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Katherine Harris for US Senate!)
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To: Westlander
This is a result of our not using profiling when searching bags of people.

Who's more likely to have a bomb in their bag? A middle-aged professional cellist with the National Symphony en route to Europe or a group of 30 year old Arab males?

When I was growing up, my cello teacher had to purchase a separate ticket for her cello when she flew somewhere, because she wouldn't trust baggage handlers with the instrument.

21 posted on 09/10/2006 8:37:01 PM PDT by Koblenz (Holland: a very tolerant country. Until someone shoots you on a public street in broad daylight...)
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To: musical_airman

FR has its share of anti-art conservatives too.


22 posted on 09/10/2006 8:38:01 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Westlander
Many performers refuse to let their instruments, often centuries old and extremely valuable, out of their sight when they travel on planes in case they are damaged in the hold.

Then these folks need to resort to what has worked in previous days, a bus tour. There are plenty of folks out there who choose not to fly for a variety of reasons, and somebody with a (rare musical instrument|artifact|test equipment|cool NFA weapons) would do well to also become a "not-flyer" type. Hey, it works for John Madden, right?

Plenty of not-major-leage sports teams and not-quite-MTV bands live off of the ol' Bus Tour. Musicians and traveling performers simply need to coodinate their tours in a circuit that works with a travel-by-road schedule, that's all. Might lead to a less hectic lifestyle, too. Less stressful.

23 posted on 09/10/2006 8:42:15 PM PDT by kittycatonline.com
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To: Westlander

Well, there is talk of banning electronic devices from aircraft. Laptop batteries have been known to catch on fire and cell phones can be used as detonators. It's just a matter of time until those items will be prohibited from aircraft, too, even as stowed baggage.


24 posted on 09/10/2006 8:43:24 PM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: doc30
Well, there is talk of banning electronic devices from aircraft. Laptop batteries have been known to catch on fire and cell phones can be used as detonators. It's just a matter of time until those items will be prohibited from aircraft, too, even as stowed baggage.

Probably just a matter of time before the two choices for flying will be nude and conscious or clothed and knocked out with an IV sedative.

25 posted on 09/10/2006 8:53:44 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised)
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To: sitetest

Ping


26 posted on 09/10/2006 8:53:52 PM PDT by good old days
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To: musical_airman
Amen! My daughter (at Northwestern) won't check her any of her trumpets, either. When you find a particularly good instrument - even horns still in production - you can't just buy a new one and be the same. One of the CSO's irreplacable York tubas was almost completely destroyed in travel (I think it was in an excellent flight case) and after the most careful restoration is reportedly still not right. A friend had her particularly fine Alexander horn destroyed ... she couldn't afford a new one and the repairs while making the horn play, dont' come close to making it right. Of course, bass players and tuba players have long had to buy a second seat if they don't want to check the horns, and even the best flight cases are only a half solution.

It seems to me they could make an exception for bona fide musicians. It's not that hard to x-ray a tuba or bass, after all.

27 posted on 09/10/2006 9:06:19 PM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Arabiam Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: Westlander
"Well, I won't have to worry about where to put MY flute."


28 posted on 09/10/2006 9:08:44 PM PDT by Clemenza (Dave? Dave?)
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To: Westlander
From the full article:

And Willie Park, a piper at the College of Piping in Glasgow, said he knew of Russian and Japanese pipers who had posted their instruments home rather than putting them in an aeroplane hold.

And how did the postal system get the instruments to their destinations? Did they perchance ship the mail via cargo aeroplanes? In the hold perhaps? Hmm.

29 posted on 09/10/2006 9:11:22 PM PDT by Brujo (Quod volunt, credunt.)
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To: Westlander

I read all the posts and I'm with the musicians on this one. There must be a way to drum (no pun intended) into all real Americans' heads just how difficult it is to be an American because it's more important to accomodate somebody with a towel on their head.


30 posted on 09/10/2006 9:13:48 PM PDT by printhead
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To: Clemenza

... with a piccolo, maybe.... (ok, she could get away with the headjoint....


31 posted on 09/10/2006 9:28:03 PM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Arabiam Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: radiohead

P.S. I meant I play guitar-family instruments. I don't play bagpipes - my hands are too small.


32 posted on 09/10/2006 9:45:33 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("I've never seen so many testicles in my life.")
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To: Westlander

In 1987 the Chicago Symphony came to my town.

Early on the day of the concert, the large instruments were being hauled by a semi from the previous city on the tour. It overturned on the interstate in high winds, a couple hundred miles from us. Orchestra management scrambled to arrange for another truck and driver to get to the scene, with help to salvage the cargo and bring it as quickly as possible to our venue.

The concert was delayed for hours. When we heard that the alternate truck was finally arriving, my friend and I wandered around to back dock of the concert hall.

We watched as the cases were unloaded. Some of the larger instruments hadn't fared too well, despite their elaborate packaging. I remember a few busted basses and cellos in particular. These were replaced by loaners from the members of the local orchestra.

As the unloading begain, I found myself standing next to a tall, gray-haired older fellow who looked vaguely familiar. I said it was a shame about all those big, beautiful, valuable instruments. He said he was glad he could travel with his instrument as a carry-on.

His name was Adolph Herseth.


33 posted on 09/10/2006 11:24:19 PM PDT by Erasmus (It takes branes to make an alternate universe!)
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To: Erasmus

I forgot to mention his instrument. He is now the world's Dean Emeritus of orchestral trumpets.


34 posted on 09/10/2006 11:25:57 PM PDT by Erasmus (It takes branes to make an alternate universe!)
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To: lightman

The bureaucrats would probably get mixed up and give us the choice of conscious and clothed, or nude and drugged out.


35 posted on 09/10/2006 11:34:43 PM PDT by Erasmus (It takes branes to make an alternate universe!)
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To: Slings and Arrows
I don't play bagpipes - my hands are too small.

I always thought that was why I couldn't play the guitar. I tried lessons years ago, but found I just couldn't imitate my favorite rock and rollers. I consoled myself by taking flute lessons a la Ian Anderson from Tull.

I do play classical piano and don't think my hands are particularly small, but when you look at the finger joints on male guitarists, they seem very long compared to those on women. I had no idea that you needed large hands to play the pipes.

36 posted on 09/11/2006 12:02:30 AM PDT by radiohead (Hey Kerry, I'm still here; still hating your lying, stinking, guts you coward.)
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To: badpacifist

This reminds me of a story I read about the Chicago Symphony Orchestra travelling to Vienna back in the '20s or '30s...the violinists were refused entry to their hotel because of the fact that they were carrying violin cases, which all the movies of the time showed Chicago gangsters carrying around to tote their tommy guns!


37 posted on 09/11/2006 12:30:31 AM PDT by anthropos
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To: gogogodzilla

They can lie about being Muslim, you know.


38 posted on 09/11/2006 12:33:28 AM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: Erasmus

One could always be a pianist. They never have to ship their instruments.


39 posted on 09/11/2006 12:36:29 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: Brujo

Maybe they can post larger containers (thus better padding) than routine airline flights can handle through their baggage systems.


40 posted on 09/11/2006 12:39:21 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: kittycatonline.com
Then these folks need to resort to what has worked in previous days, a bus tour.

I dont know about that i tried to take a bus to europe once and almost drown. I decided then and there to fly across oceans. Maybe these musicians feel the same way?

41 posted on 09/11/2006 12:45:13 AM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: freepatriot32
I dont know about that i tried to take a bus to europe once and almost drown.

Did you try one of those Cuban sea-cars?

42 posted on 09/11/2006 12:47:22 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: Westlander

Have these guys ever heard of the simple concept of insurance?

They're able to somehow afford instruments worth thousands but can't afford to insure them? It must suck to be that stupid.


43 posted on 09/11/2006 12:53:08 AM PDT by Bullish ( The pig headed monkeys of Islam can kiss my grits!)
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To: Westlander

44 posted on 09/11/2006 12:53:32 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War (This tagline is false.)
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To: kittycatonline.com

"Then these folks need to resort to what has worked in previous days, a bus tour. There are plenty of folks out there who choose not to fly for a variety of reasons, and somebody with a (rare musical instrument|artifact|test equipment|cool NFA weapons) would do well to also become a "not-flyer" type. Hey, it works for John Madden, right?"

For some, yes, this is an obvious answer - a lot of the big rock and pop bands travel by bus, and stow their gear in trucks and haul it around.

However, this does not address the issue of international performers. Many artists, especially in the classical and jazz field, travel around the globe without a full band as an entourage, and need to bring their intruments with them. I would'nt check my $300 Ibenez guitar when I traveled (before the ban), I can completely understand why the musicians are upset.

Add on top of that, you cannot LOCK checked baggage, so you add the risk of theft to the issue. When you have a $100,000 dollar violin, you do not want to imagine one of the thugs at JFK at a pawn shop asking 'How much is dis wort?"

I work in the music industry, and this ban HAS effected many musicians negatively. Tours are not going forward, peformances are being canceled, and top notch musicians are choosing to sit at home rather than risk their priceless and necessary tools of their trade to the gorillas that load and unload airplanes.

"Plenty of not-major-leage sports teams and not-quite-MTV bands live off of the ol' Bus Tour. Musicians and traveling performers simply need to coodinate their tours in a circuit that works with a travel-by-road schedule, that's all. Might lead to a less hectic lifestyle, too. Less stressful."

Again, that's fine, if you just play in THIS country. Any rock or metal band of any repute plays the festivals in Europe, or just Europe in general. In this modern world, such circuits are virtually impossible with current state of bookings and schedules - very few performers can simply pick a date when they play, it's set up months in advance, and even then, booking musicians of ANY genre is one of the hardest jobs in the industry. Sometimes, you just HAVE to fly.

Some bands solved this problem years ago, by maintaining seperate sets of equipment - one for the US, and one for Europe/Japan.

As for less hectic...have you ever been on a tour bus? Words that would NOT describe the conditions is "less stressful". Unless you're Madonna or the top 1% of the industry, you share a bus with 12 other people. Your bunk is about 6'-7' x 3 x 3. It's noisy. It's stale conditioned air. Everything and everyone is on top of each other. If several people don't bathe, you can tell, quickly. A groupie or fan threw up in the WC? You get to smell that for 10 hours. Oh, and rule #1 on tour buses - you NEVER, EVER, under any circumstances, use the toilet on a tour bus for anything but liquids, and even then, try not to.

Tour buses are also expensive. Many bands simply cannot afford them, or have two bands, crew, and management on one bus.

Traveling by tour bus is not like RV living. Trust me. The first thing people do when the bus hits the next destination, is they get OFF the buss for as long as possible.

Also, many musicians, who work in the classical and jazz fields, also travel for more than just performance. Often, they go from LA for studio work to NY for a performance to London for a symposium to Vienna for more studio work back to NYC to perform again and meet with the agent...it's not that simple for them, to just travel by bus. In this modern music industry, you MUST diversify, and travel is very much part of the job. We're not talking about a once a month inconvenience, we're talking daily.

Also, when you work as a musician, you are an independant contractor, most of the time. To get gigs, you have to travel. Sometimes your gigs are on opposite sides of the country, or in other countries. This ban is effecting people's livelyhoods, especially in the jazz and classical fields where they make virtually no money from album sales or merchandising or ticket sales.


45 posted on 09/11/2006 1:00:33 AM PDT by ByDesign
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To: Clemenza

"One time at band camp..."


46 posted on 09/11/2006 1:04:29 AM PDT by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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To: Bullish

"Have these guys ever heard of the simple concept of insurance?

They're able to somehow afford instruments worth thousands but can't afford to insure them? It must suck to be that stupid."

Do you understand that most of the insurance companies WON'T insure them? Or, if they are willing, charge so much that the musican cannot afford it?

And insurance matters little if the viola was made 200 years ago and is irreplacable - even IF they'll insure it for 100% of the replacement (very rare), the odds or replacing it are slim to none.

If you don't understand why they use these instruments, and why it matters,you have no business in this thread.

Try and have a little knowledge of what you speak of, before you call people stupid. Most insurance companies won't insure run of the mill rack mount stuff for average rock musicians, let alone priceless classical instruments. Talk to road managers about securing and keeping insurance on a band's equipment sometime, and be prepared to listen to some horror stories.

It's very simple. A quick check of a $100,000 violin in the airport line that would take all of 5 minutes TOPS, or insurance you cannot afford - and you STILL have to check it, you might as well smash it yourself, the loss of a valuable instrument, and the loss of income from the damaged or lost or stolen instrument.

I don't think they're the stupid ones here.


47 posted on 09/11/2006 1:07:45 AM PDT by ByDesign
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To: musical_airman
Good post.

48 posted on 09/11/2006 1:19:15 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life)
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To: Westlander

I suppose they could do like Tom Paxton did when the airlines broke his guitar - he wrote a little ditty and sang it at concerts for awhile after the incident. All I remember of it is the first two lines - I think the airline is now bankrupt - who knows, perhaps Paxton was helpful in their demise.

"Thank you, Republic Airlines
For breaking the neck of my guitar."


49 posted on 09/11/2006 1:22:39 AM PDT by Spyder
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To: ByDesign
Recall Rachel Barton, who chose to hold on to her violin as it got caught inside the doors of the Chicago train, and lost her legs. Instruments are that precious.
50 posted on 09/11/2006 1:35:10 AM PDT by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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