Posted on 10/07/2006 6:40:10 AM PDT by NYer
NEW YORK - A new 10-nation survey of Pentecostal and charismatic Christians, considered the fastest-growing stream of Christianity worldwide, shows they are deeply influencing the Roman Catholic and mainstream Protestant churches and are poised to make a big impact on global affairs. p>The poll released Thursday by the Washington-based Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life found that "spirit-filled" Christians, who speak in tongues and believe in healing through prayer, comprise at least 10 percent of the population in nine of the 10 surveyed countries.
The study also found that followers are more willing than previously thought to bring their traditional values into public debates, potentially shaping government policies in the years ahead.
The surveys were conducted over the spring and summer in Brazil, Chile, Guatemala, Kenya, Nigeria, South Africa, India, the Philippines, South Korea" /> Researchers polled both Pentecostals, who form their own denominations such as the Assemblies of God, and charismatics, who have adopted some Pentecostal beliefs but remain members of traditional Protestant and Catholic churches.
The survey estimated that Pentecostals and charismatics together comprise at least half the population of Brazil, Guatemala and Kenya, and 44 percent of the Philippines.
They make up about one-third of the population of South Africa and Chile and nearly one-quarter of Nigerians and U.S. residents. The figure for South Korea is smaller, at 11 percent. In India, the poll was limited to three states with large Christian populations, so a national estimate could not be made.
The study found Pentecostal beliefs have a strong hold in major churches in many countries.
In the traditionally Catholic nations of Brazil, Guatemala and the Philippines, charismatics are a larger share of the population than Pentecostals.
In six of the 10 countries, Pentecostals and charismatics together make up the majority of the overall Protestant population, according to the survey.
The Pentecostal movement, which began a century ago in Los Angeles, spread quickly overseas because of its adaptability to local cultures, whose indigenous beliefs often include healings and casting out of evil spirits, and because of the exuberance of its worship.
While Pentecostals and charismatics are known for speaking in tongues, the survey found respondents were more likely to say that they had personally witnessed or experienced other signs of the Holy Spirit, such as a healing through prayer or a direct revelation from God.
The majority of Pentecostals in every nation surveyed except South Korea and India believed religious groups should express their views on social and political issues. In seven of the 10 countries, 70 percent of charismatics agreed.
"These are folks for whom the world of spirit is remarkably alive ... but that in no way diminishes their commitment to social justice for the poor, for instance, or a role for government in meeting those needs," said Luis Lugo, director of the Pew Forum.
The polls were conducted by phone in the U.S., and in person overseas, with margins of error ranging from plus or minus 4 percentage points to 9 percentage points for some subgroups.
The polls in Brazil, South Africa and South Korea focused on urban areas.
Do not condemn those who cause Salvation to happen in Christs name.
I wouldn't want to hazard a generic label on ALL BAPTIST churches.
I don't even think Holy Spirit has a LOT of freedom in ALL AoG churches . . . and virtually none in far too many of them.
I think Baptist churches can be very STUCK on the plan of Salvation and other beginning stages of Christianity and their choir and the tidy little boxed ways of doing things.
But, there's probably a place for such churches. Just most of them seem overly stereotypic and sterile, to me. But, so are far too many A of G and other older Pentecostal groups and congregations. I think RELIGION and stagnation sets in about a year and a half into a groups existence. And, that it takes a lot to keep things freshly responsive to Holy Spirit regardless of the flavor of the congregation vis a vis overt Holy Spirit operations or not.
Thankfully, God's Word doesn't return void and in solid preaching of The Word, there must be SOME Holy Spirit involvement MOST of the time IN MOST remotely healthy groups.
But in lots of groups, it seems to me that Holy Spirit may have walked away in sadness over being quenched and rejected routinely.
After all, the order of service is in the bulletin and we CAN'T deviate from THAT HOLY WRIT! Sigh.
If folks acknoweldge that Christ came in the flesh; died for our sins, rose again . . . I think it's pretty hazardous to accuse them of wholesale being on the side of the enemy.
A. "Pentecostalism" has been around since the 12 disciples were running around. Hardly a fad.
B. State you source on the "drop out" rate.
Agreed.
We are not known for being charasmatic.
I wouldn't classify a church denominationally necessarily. I am saying that if a pastor, of any demonination, is determined to follow his service order, whatever that might be, and diminish the importance of a church as described in I Corinthians 12-14, and restricts the opportunity for the Holy Spirit to work through and in the congregation outside of the prescribed "sermon", that is not the kind of church in which I would choose to worship. Sorry...I know that is kind of a run on...
The problem I have when attending a Pentecostal service is that why is it only then that God speaks through a member of the congregation? And, why does it seem to always be the same person, or between one or two persons at the church? If talking in tongues was being directed by God's hand, I'd think it would be up to Him on who He chooses for His vessel.
Making oblique, super obscure hints at allegations of association between what . . .
1930's Nazism?
and authentic Biblical Christianity/Pentecostalism . . .
is . . . well beyond outrageous and well over the line of dispicable.
imho, of course.
True.
Especially WELS.
However, there have been some wonderful Charismatic Lutheran congregations the last 30 years. And some have formed fresh even out of some WELS folks.
God is amazing.
I really like the way you think.
Excellent response...as I grow sleepier, I should have punted on answering myself and just let you take that one.
And I agree...many AoG churches have become very comfortable in their form of "religion". Our former AoG pastor used to plan "spontaneous worship" into the service order....
I really like the way you think, too.
Thanks for that. Makes me feel less stiff.
A story here.
My brother works with a guy...hardware engineer...who in his mid-20's...met a very nice & conservitive woman (divorced, 1 kid)...who was reformed Pentecostal (a drifter). For old fashioned minded guys, she was a perfect 10. He married her and had a daughter. By mid-30s...she decided it was time to go back to hardline Pentecostal, which he went hand-in-hand with her. She was quickly accepted back into the church, and of course, did the tongues routine. He was educated, an engineer, very logical and common-sense minded...and couldn't get this whole thing into his mind. Her entire family...after almost three years of getting him into the tongues routine...felt he could never be in the inner circle. So they suggest she might find a better husband. She was still a very dedicated woman and stood by the husband but these week-after-week episodes at the church didn't make for much of a relationship. Last I heard...five years later...still married but he isn't invited to family functions, nor would he go anyway.
Its a faith that demands you be in their inner circle or else you are labeled an outsider. Its their system and they are free to do so. There is no reason to demand changes amongst the group. But the tongues routine is more of a joke and out of 10,000 verses in the Bible...its rather amusing that you circle one verse and concentrate strictly on one alone to base your religion. Its a great book...seems like you would want to base a religion on its entire contents.
Far to many . . . even Pentecostals . . .
fail to follow the Scripture about fear of man is a trap. Far too many fear what others might think--especially if they speak amiss, speak from the flesh etc.
Some of it is poor teaching. Some of it is too much performance anxiety and focus on performance rather than encouraging the people to grow in the exercise of their gifts including the freedom to fail and learn and grow.
IF a half dozen or so folks are reliable and humble and spiritual etc. . . . especially in a small congregation . . . . that would be sufficient.
In large congregations . . . the operation of the gifts is routinely better in small groups but should not be prohibited, imho, in the largeer group as Calvary Chapel reoutinely does. There are ways to keep it healthy and wierd newcomers from crashing the service inappropriately.
Alas, in too many congregations . . . a few folks are routinely depended on . . . and/or . . . tend to expect to be used and may tend to hog the role when they should be training up others to flow in their gifts. I don't know that Holy Spirit always anoints such as much as they seem to think. Leadership should be on top of that sort of thing. Many times they aren't. Sometimes they perpetuate stereotypic stuff when Holy Spirit has been trying to broaden, loosen up the congregation for a long time.
Do not condemn those who cause Salvation to happen in Christs name.
Amen to that!
Thanks tons.
But PLEASE, speak up. I pontificate overmuch on such threads. We need all the diversity we can get--even when there's lots of agreement amongst the diversity--perhaps especially then.
I think too often, the enemy convinces 'others' think our persuasion is merely isolated kooks with unique and strange views.
I like the way you put things, too.
Thx
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