Posted on 11/13/2006 10:57:02 PM PST by B4Ranch
FAITH UNDER FIRE
Ten Commandments stunner:
Feds lying at Supreme Court
Government tells modern visitors
it's Bill of Rights being honored
Every argument before the U.S. Supreme Court and every opinion the judges deliver comes in the presence of the Ten Commandments, God's law given to Moses on a fire-scorched mountain, and now represented for the United States in the very artwork embedded in the high court structure.
In today's world of revisionist history, the proof comes through the work of a California pastor who visited the Supreme Court building recently when he was in Washington and was surprised that what the tour guides were telling him wasn't the same thing as what he was seeing.
Todd DuBord, pastor of the Lake Almanor Community Church in California, said he was traveling with his wife, Tracy, and was more than startled during recent visits to the courthouse and two other historic locations to discover that the stories of the nation's heritage had been sterilized of Christian references.
His entire research compilation is available online.
"Having done some research (before the trip), I absolutely was not expecting to hear those remarks," which, he told WND, simply "denied history."
So he's written to the Supreme Court, and several other groups, asking them to restore the historic Christian influences to their information, and he's documented his research to explain to those interested what the history is and how it's been subverted.
"I would like to see the record rectified and the proper Christian and Judeo-Christian depictions taught in these places," he told WND.
He was most disturbed by what appears to be revisionism in the presentations given to visitors at the Supreme Court. There, he said, his tour guide was describing the marble frieze directly above the justices' bench.
"Between the images of the people depicting the Majesty of the Law and Power of Government, there is a tablet with ten Roman numerals, the first five down the left side and the last five down the right. This tablet represents the first ten amendments of the Bill of Rights," she said.
The ten what? was DuBord's thought.
Unwilling to be confrontational, he went home and started some research.
One official Supreme Court document, he found, cited a letter from sculptor Adolph A. Weinman that said the "pylon" carved with Roman numerals I to X "symbolizes the first ten amendments to the Constitution." But the letter was anomalous; it didn't have a number of certifying marks that were typical of others.
So he continued looking and after calling in some assistance in his hunt for evidence, he found a 1975 official U.S. Supreme Court Handbook, prepared under the direction of Mark Cannon, administrative assistant to the chief justice. It said, "Directly above the Bench are two central figures, depicting Majesty of the Law and Power of Government. Between them is a tableau of the Ten Commandments…"
Further research produced information that in 1987 the building was designated a National Historic Landmark, and came under control of the U.S. Department of the Interior, and under the new management the handbook was rewritten in 1988. The Ten Commandments reference was left out of that edition, and nothing replaced it.
The next reference found said only the frieze "symbolizes early written laws" and then in 1999, the reference first appeared to that depiction being the "Ten Amendments to the Bill of Rights."
"The more I got into it (his research), the more I saw Christianity had been abandoned from history," he told WND.
When he asked, his recent tour guide denied there were any Ten Commandments representations in the Supreme Court building, he said.
One who was not surprised by the circumstances, however, was Judge Roy Moore, a WND columnist and the former chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. He was removed from office on a federal judge's order because he refused to remove a depiction of the Ten Commandments from the Alabama courthouse.
"They've distorted history to come up with their own version of things," he told WND. What such changes do, he said, "is divorce ourselves from an understanding of where our rights come from."
Without rights coming from God, he noted, government "assumes control over everything, including what you think."
"Why would they say the Ten Commandments weren't there? They had to come up with something. I could see the progressive disappearance of the word 'commandment' from their literature," said DuBord.
He had just returned from a trip to Turkey, where ancient Ephesus is.
"The tour guide was Muslim, and went on to say, with all respect to all of you, I need to say something to you about the Apostle Paul. ... And he went into an apologetic of Paul's teachings."
"He told us, 'These things happened here,'" DuBord said.
But then to return to the U.S. and find Christianity edited from history left him almost speechless.
"I thought, we started as a Christian nation, and we can't even get this here."
DeBord also noted that during his research of the "Weinman letter," he found another memorial in Washington, "The Oscar Solomon Memorial," noting the accomplishments of the first Jew to serve in a president's cabinet. It's on 14th Street between Pennsylvania and Constitution avenues.
It also was designed by Weinman, and like the Supreme Court image, depicts a human figure leaning on the same table with Roman numerals just as the East Wall Frieze.
But this time, an artist's letter confirms the tablets represent the Ten Commandments.
"Would Weinman have sculpted two identical tablets, in the same city, each with the Roman numerals I through V on one side and VI through X on the other, but with totally different identities?" DuBord wondered. "It seems very unlikely."
The current information office at the Supreme Court declined to talk on the record with WND when asked about Ten Commandments representations on the building, referring questioners to the website.
There, a document does indicate "Moses" is one of various lawgivers portrayed in the friezes, but the site doesn't mention "Ten Commandments." It does mention the "Ten Amendments."
DuBord said he knew of other representations, such as the lower part of the inside of each of the oak doors where people enter the inner Court Chamber, where two tablets carry Roman numerals I-V and VI-X.
But DuBord's tour guide said those – too – were the Ten Amendments.
He then asked, "If there are no other depictions of Moses or the Ten Commandments on the building except on the South Wall Frieze in the U.S. Supreme Court, then what about on the east side of the building where Moses is the central figure among others, holding both tablets of the Ten Commandments, one in each arm?"
"Her response shocked me as much as the guide inside the Court chamber. 'There is no depiction of Moses and the Ten Commandments like that on the U.S. Supreme Court,'" DuBord said he was told.
He asked if there were any pictures of the representation, and she pulled one out.
"Her eyes widened in surprise. There was Moses in photo and description as the central figure, holding the Ten Commandments (tablets), one in each hand," DuBord wrote.
Although there are six depictions of Moses and-or the Ten Commandments at the Supreme Court, the tour guides had been trained to admit to only the one on Moses, he said.
One doesn't have to be Christian, or endorse Christianity, to recognize its influence in history, he said.
"I am … respectfully requesting that the complete educational history regarding the depictions of Moses and The Ten Commandments be rediscovered and retaught to U.S. Supreme Court guides and to the public in the U.S. Supreme Court Building," he suggested in a letter to the court.
DuBord grew up without religion, but during seven years of academic study at Bethany University and Fuller Theological Seminary accepted that the claims of Christianity are true.
He's served in various prison, drug and alcohol rehab ministries and worked as a youth pastor and associate pastor before assuming his duties in Lake Almanor.
His messages can be downloaded at www.iTunes.com, by typing in "almanor" or "dubord."
Even that statement isn't true. You are referring to either post #63 which has only one reference to the East Wall Frieze or post #70 which only concerns the east pediment as you correctly pointed out. So far the only thing you have been right about.
The article refers to her as a tour guide. There is no mention of an information desk or anyone at or from an information desk in the article. But you just keep making things up if it floats your boat.
It's very sad when the very thing our country was predicated on, is systematically rooted out of every instituion. It seems we sacrifice everything we believe in for the 1% who really don't give a damn to begin with.
"I pledge allegiance to God and country!"
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Sandy: And that's the tour guide I mentioned who didn't know about the Commandment's on the courtroom door. That's what that sentence is about.
No, that is one in the same person you keep calling "the lady at the information desk." The tour guide he showed the picture to.
Is that your reason for all your confused posts?
I did. When someone profers information as a representative of the government that makes the claim that the tablets in Moses' hands are the 'ten amendments' that, IMO, is reducing him to a non-entity. You are free to disagree with my opinion.
I don't know what website the author is talking about there.
He wasn't specific was he? You are correct that the SC website accurately describes the tablets in Moses' hands, on the South Wall Frieze, as the Ten Commandments. That correction should be directed at the author not me.
Exclusive Photo Essay: God in the Temples of Government: Part I
Exclusive Photo Essay: God in the Temples of Government: Part II
I'm not making things up. Evidently, you don't comprehend my replies any more then you comprehend the original article. To repeat what I already said in reply #80: That's because it's a poorly written article. If you follow the link in the article and read Dubord's piece, it makes more sense.
And just in case that sentence is still incomprehensible, here's the link from the article to Dubord's piece: http://www.lacconline.org/supremecourt.asp.
I do thank you for the link though. The article there lays out a much more damning indictment of the SC guides and information specialists and does so very clearly as opposed to the "poorly written" article leading this thread. I encourage everyone who reads this far to check it out.
10 Commandments Changed to 10 Amendments at U.S. Supreme Court
I'm referring to post #63, where paragraphs 1-5 are all about the East Wall Frieze.
Here:
This quote says where the frieze is located:
There, he said, his tour guide was describing the marble frieze directly above the justices' bench.And this quote is regarding tour guide's description of of the frieze:
"Between the images of the people depicting the Majesty of the Law and Power of Government, there is a tablet with ten Roman numerals, the first five down the left side and the last five down the right. This tablet represents the first ten amendments of the Bill of Rights," she said.And the following quotes all deal with Dubord's investigation into what the tour guide said about the frieze:
One official Supreme Court document, he found, cited a letter from sculptor Adolph A. Weinman that said the "pylon" carved with Roman numerals I to X "symbolizes the first ten amendments to the Constitution." But the letter was anomalous; it didn't have a number of certifying marks that were typical of others.Now let's recap in case you lost track:(snip)
Further research produced information that in 1987 the building was designated a National Historic Landmark, and came under control of the U.S. Department of the Interior, and under the new management the handbook was rewritten in 1988. The Ten Commandments reference was left out of that edition, and nothing replaced it.
The next reference found said only the frieze "symbolizes early written laws" and then in 1999, the reference first appeared to that depiction being the "Ten Amendments to the Bill of Rights."
I said: "Most of the quotes in your 'demonstration' to me dealt with the East Wall Frieze."
You said: "Even that statement isn't true. You are referring to either post #63 which has only one reference to the East Wall Frieze"
I say: "I'm referring to post #63, where paragraphs 1-5 are all about the East Wall Frieze." (Those five paragraphs are copied/pasted in this reply.)
So what? That has nothing to do with the substance of the article. Nothing.
No it's not. It's two different people. One woman is a tour guide. The other woman is someone Dubord talked to at the information booth after the tour. The tour guide told him to go to the information booth, and so he did.
If you'd bother to read the link I gave you--which is Dubord's actual report--you might understand what I'm saying.
No problem. Good luck with that reading comprehension problem though. G'nite.
If you had bothered to give that link in the first place you wouldn't have created all this confusion as to what you are talking about. But you were still wrong on most of your points. My rebuttals still stand.
Good luck with that bi-polar thing.
Actually it is in the WND article. I'm shocked you missed it. ;-)
No it isn't. If it was you would have cut and pasted it by now. You lie.
There is no mention of that in the article as posted at the head of this thread. The closest thing is this...
The current information office at the Supreme Court declined to talk on the record with WND when asked about Ten Commandments representations on the building, referring questioners to the website.
There is no mention there of a person, a conversation with a person or the gender of a person. You are caught in another outright lie.
This is a joke, right? Please tell me you're kidding. You can't possibly be this dense.
I gave you the link in my reply #88. In reply #89, you thanked me for that link and also said, "It wasn't in the article posted here or in the WND article." But the link *is* in the WND article. That's where I got it from. Repeat: The link to DuBord's article is in the WND article; that's where I got the link; that's the link I gave you in reply 88; and that's the link you thanked me for in reply 89.
But still for some godforsaken reason, after I said, "Actually it [the link] is in the WND article," you come back and say, "No it isn't. If it was you would have cut and pasted it by now. You lie."
Hello? Is this thing on?
This is the last time I'll say it. Follow the link in the article (which I posted to you in reply 88).
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