Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Study turns human genetics on its head (less monkey...more variations)
Globe and Mail (Canada) ^ | 11/23/2006 | CAROLYN ABRAHAM

Posted on 11/23/2006 4:02:06 AM PST by peyton randolph

...Using new technology to study the genomes of 270 volunteers from four corners of the world, researchers have found that while people do indeed inherit one chromosome from each parent, they do not necessarily inherit one gene from mom and another from dad.

One parent can pass down to a child three or more copies of a single gene. In some cases, people can inherit as many as eight or 10 copies....

(Excerpt) Read more at theglobeandmail.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aryan; asian; crevolist; devolution; dna; european; evolution; genetics; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; india; misinterpretation
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-73 next last
Wonder what the implications are for the differences between men and women (besides the obvious).
1 posted on 11/23/2006 4:02:19 AM PST by peyton randolph
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph
Related story that can't be posted here. Link only.

 

2 posted on 11/23/2006 4:03:52 AM PST by peyton randolph (No man knows the day nor the hour of The Coming of The Great White Handkerchief.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph
Wow, and just the other day a story came out how genome research was destroying evolution's common ancestor theory.
3 posted on 11/23/2006 4:09:35 AM PST by AmericaUnited
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph
These self-absoebed pencil-necked scientists/researchers will have a completely different theory/story/explanation in a few years. Just hang on and wait a while, they haven't a clue.

;-)

Pass me the cheese omelet, bacon and buttered toast.

4 posted on 11/23/2006 4:21:15 AM PST by beyond the sea ( Now that Pelosi Galore is in charge, it's never too late or early to start drinking.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph

The ninth paragraph in mentions the serious implications this has for "pre-natal scans". Is that Brit speak for ultrasounds, or does that include DNA testing as well?


5 posted on 11/23/2006 4:26:16 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph
This is new stuff. Will it be the same a year from now?

At least three of the four ethnic groups a far from homogenous (genetically). Han Chinese is made out many people who adopted the basic Chinese culture starting in northeast China. The Japanese people's origins are still debated (traditionally, Shinto Japanese consider themselves all descended from the first emperor, and that they comprise the single, Yamada race. Most other scientists think that the Japanese have varied origins, with ancestors from the north, from Korea in the west, and even peoples from the south and Polynesia). And every American should know the heterogenity of Americans of European descent.

All humans are part of one race (and there are no subspecies) with very little genetic variation (the result of separation by at most some 5,000 years).

6 posted on 11/23/2006 4:41:23 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Think of the reason for today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph; editor-surveyor

ping.


7 posted on 11/23/2006 4:41:48 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Think of the reason for today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AmericaUnited
Which merely goes to show that scientific models are subject to change--either way.
8 posted on 11/23/2006 4:42:40 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Think of the reason for today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph
Wonder what the implications are for the differences between men and women (besides the obvious).

In the end, studies like these are meaningless when a city (NYC) can propose a law allowing people to decide for themselves what gender they are. And if you can decide what gender you are, which is determined at birth, then I guess you can decide what race you are and what color your eyes and hair are as well. It's all up to you and has nothing to do with reality.

That can make getting a driver's license and other daily activities (like choosing what restroom you should use) a bit tricky, I'd think, but so what? We're in the Age of Liberal Enlightenment.

9 posted on 11/23/2006 4:57:10 AM PST by randita
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph
I don't know much about genetics, but this sort of makes sense to me. I never did understand how the simple model could explain eye color. For example, I was taught that brown genes were dominant, and blue were recessive. I have one brown gene, and one blue-eyed gene. So does my wife. We both have brown eyes. So my children have a one in 4 chance of having blue eyes:
Mom's Gene Dad's Gene Child's Eye Color
Brown Brown Brown
Brown Blue Brown
Blue Brown Brown
Blue Blue Blue
4 combinations, 1 of which leads to a blue-eyed child, hence the 1 in 4 chance.

So my son has grey eyes. How does this simplistic model explain that?

10 posted on 11/23/2006 4:59:10 AM PST by Scutter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scutter

Grey eyes are a slight color variation on blue.


11 posted on 11/23/2006 5:24:45 AM PST by Andrew Byler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
All humans are part of one race (and there are no subspecies) with very little genetic variation

You are confusing terms here. Races are subgroups within a species that can be simply distinguished from one another by differences in outward appearance, differences in vocalization, and differences in behavior and response to stimuli.

The existence of seperate human races is simply demonstrated by variations in skin, eye, and hair color, facial type, and typical body size and proportions and more complexly demonstrated by differing reactions to medical care and risks of various diseases of, for example, people from sub-saharan Africa vs. people from east Asia vs. people from Europe.

The fact that there is very little genetic variation between human races does not mean that they are indistinguishable or undetectable. In fact, there are clear marker genes in our DNA which allow for a quick determination of the racial background of the person donating the sample. This is why those companies that ask you for a DNA sample and promise to tell you your genetic background can do what they do.

12 posted on 11/23/2006 5:31:51 AM PST by Andrew Byler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Scutter
So my son has grey eyes.

Sounds very cool.

My father had blue eyes, my mother brown.

Of my two other brothers (one older, one younger) and myself, we have 1) Blue/Grey eyes 2) Hazel/Green eyes 3) Dark brown eyes.

I'm the middle. Also the tallest but the weakest (strongest brother presses 345lbs or so.) I'm also the laziest, but I don't think that's genetics. ; )

15 posted on 11/23/2006 5:47:44 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: randita

I just decided that I am black.

Now I can enjoy the benefits of affirmative action and all the other race-based govt. discrimination.


16 posted on 11/23/2006 5:52:28 AM PST by 2ndClassCitizen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu

What do you think are the origins of the Ainu people? I have read a little about them. Some people think they have ancient European origins, some people don't think they came from Europe. Are the Ainu mixing with other Japanese or are they still pretty much isolated?


17 posted on 11/23/2006 5:56:53 AM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Scutter
Eye colour inheritance is far more complex than the erroneously simplified "brown gene", "blue gene" etc.

There are people in India with blue eyes, while both parents have brown eyes.
18 posted on 11/23/2006 5:59:55 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Scutter
So my son has grey eyes. How does this simplistic model explain that?

The milkman.

I'm sorry...couldn't resist.

19 posted on 11/23/2006 6:02:32 AM PST by peyton randolph (No man knows the day nor the hour of The Coming of The Great White Handkerchief.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: mewzilla
The ninth paragraph in mentions the serious implications this has for "pre-natal scans". Is that Brit speak for ultrasounds, or does that include DNA testing as well?
No idea. My knowledge of Brit speak is pretty much limited to Monty Python.
20 posted on 11/23/2006 6:03:36 AM PST by peyton randolph (No man knows the day nor the hour of The Coming of The Great White Handkerchief.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: EricOF
You make good points!

I just want to know about the gene pool from which Janet Reno came.

;-)

****

Have a nice Thanksgiving.......

21 posted on 11/23/2006 6:14:05 AM PST by beyond the sea ( Now that Pelosi Galore is in charge, it's never too late or early to start drinking.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: CarrotAndStick
Eye colour inheritance is far more complex than the erroneously simplified "brown gene", "blue gene" etc.
Make sense. I wish they'd stop teaching the oversimplified version. I know they are, because my 8 year old explained it to me a year or so ago.
22 posted on 11/23/2006 6:29:18 AM PST by Scutter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Scutter

I agree.


23 posted on 11/23/2006 6:31:31 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Scutter

I have blue eyes, my husband has green w/ hazel around the pupil. My son has green, my other son has blue....my daughter has blue with hazel around the pupil. Strange.


24 posted on 11/23/2006 6:31:44 AM PST by I'm ALL Right! ("Tolerance" is only required of Conservatives.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: CarrotAndStick

There could be a dormant recessive gene for many generations though.

Bb x Bb = bb (blue), with p = 0.25
= Bb (brown), with p = 0.5
= BB (brown, no recessive gene), with p = 0.25

I'm an amateur here but you would think that a blue-eyed child would almost have to get one gene from each brown-eyed parent, rather than both genes from one parent.


25 posted on 11/23/2006 6:32:09 AM PST by scrabblehack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Scutter

My wife hd an interesting experience in her freshman biology class where simple genetics like this were discussed. The prof mentioned that if both parents were brown eyed, their children would be brown eyed. One girl raised her hand and argued against this because she had blue eyes and her parents both had brown eyes. The prof went into the detailed explanation and the girl ran out of the cloass crying.

Turns out she was adopted and wasn't told. She guessed in in class and left to confront her parents that confirmed it. Talk about a surprising way to learn somehting like that!


26 posted on 11/23/2006 6:34:52 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: I'm ALL Right!
I have blue eyes, my husband has green w/ hazel around the pupil. My son has green, my other son has blue....my daughter has blue with hazel around the pupil. Strange.
It is. As CarrotAndStick posted, it must be much more complicated than the simplistic Blue Gene / Brown Gene model that is taught in our institutions of primary education.
27 posted on 11/23/2006 6:35:40 AM PST by Scutter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: scrabblehack

Hmmm...I looked at the above again.....if eye color is determined by 8 or 10 genes rather than 1 then all bets are off.


28 posted on 11/23/2006 6:36:28 AM PST by scrabblehack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
All humans are part of one race (and there are no subspecies) with very little genetic variation (the result of separation by at most some 5,000 years).

I thought the Australian aborigines had been isolated for something like 40,000 years.

-ccm

29 posted on 11/23/2006 6:39:27 AM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: doc30

That's complete crap. Two brown-eyed parents can definitely have a blue-eyed child.


30 posted on 11/23/2006 6:41:51 AM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: ccmay
That's complete crap. Two brown-eyed parents can definitely have a blue-eyed child.

Yes, if they both inherited one blue gene from their parents. Because blue-brown or brown-blue are expressed as brown, they would both have brown eyes. Their child, if it inherits the blue-blue combination from them, would have blue eyes.

31 posted on 11/23/2006 6:53:38 AM PST by BlazingArizona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: beyond the sea

"...Janet Reno came."

Yeti gene pool.


32 posted on 11/23/2006 7:03:14 AM PST by burroak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: burroak; beyond the sea
Yeti gene pool.


Shave the yeti

33 posted on 11/23/2006 7:08:16 AM PST by peyton randolph (No man knows the day nor the hour of The Coming of The Great White Handkerchief.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Andrew Byler
Variations in skin color? Humans are pigmented primarily by melanin. There are not separate colors of people, some people are more brown than others. Some have thinner skin, and thus appear redder or pinkish.

How are there various vocalizations of humanity? What do you mean by facial type? Almond eyes are caused by more fat under the eyelid than European eyes (which also have fat, simply less of it). Asians tend to have wider cheekbones than Europeans, and Africans tend to have wider nasal cavities than either Asian or Europeans.

Body sizes are primarily determined (not totally, but primarily) by a combination of genetics and diet. Height is largely based on diet. Ecto-/Endo-/Meso- morph is often genetic. However, this is not race-based, just as right/left handism, and even blood type is not race-based. Even in cases leaning toward a distinction by people group (race) such as European have around half a chance of being type A bloodtype while the rest of the world is largely type O (along with around half of Europeans).

Prevalence is not the same as one group has this trait, and that trait is absent in the other groups.

People within people groups simply tend to be more related to one another than people in another people group, just as would be more related to those in your immediate family more than you would to your first cousins. Similar genetic markers simply show a mutual ancestor (with a mutation) for a particular group. Using the close family analogy again, your family could have inherited a mutation from your father, while your cousins could be devoid of such a mutation. Your cousins and you are still very closely related, hence the need for incest laws. The genetic variance of the human race (singular) is not large enough for there to be races of humanity, subspecies or your subgroups (which are one and the same: a subgroup of a species is a subspecies).

P.S. Appreciate your respectful tone in your response. Looking at the ping section, and there are a lot of replies. Guessing that many of them won't be as respectful as yours.

34 posted on 11/23/2006 7:25:48 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Think of the reason for today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: EricOF

Actually it is the idea that there are races that is nonsense. There has not been enough time for races to surface. Humans live a long time, do not have that many children (compared to some organisms), and can travel and interact over large distances. Until recently, humans were a relatively small species (in numbers), too. Also, humans are social beings who tend to live together (and not in tiny groups which could promote more mutations that normal due to incest). There are species and races of ants. There are no races of humanity.


35 posted on 11/23/2006 7:29:28 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Think of the reason for today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Wilhelm Tell
The Ainu are controversial. As you have stated, it is popular (largely among European and European-descended people) to draw a link between the Ainu and Europeans. Others (including some Japanese scientists) have an Asian or Oceanic origin for the Ainu. Pictures of Ainu (they are not extinct) make them look nonEuropean. However, this could be from admixture. For example, many Amerindians have copious quantities of European blood (traceable to recent times, not necessarily a Europeans-were-here-first thing, though that could have been the case).

Something to take into account. After Japan figuratively whooped Russia's butt in the Russo-Japanese War, European racists from their point of view elevated Japanese and demoted Russians by hypothesizing that the Japanese were partially European and this European blood gave them the ability to be a success. Conversely, Russians were tainted with Asian blood which caused them to lose, and they weren't fully European (not only culturally but by what today would be considered genetically). Note that this was the first case of a European nation losing a war to a nonEuropean one, and it was a rather sound defeat. Indeed, it was one of first chinks in the armor of the myth that European-descendees were inheritantly more advanced than other peoples. And with kudos to the Japanese, they rejected the idea that they were part European, declaring themselves to be fully Asian.

On a bit darker note, they countered European racism with Asian racism, a case of two bad things don't make a good thing. While Europeans were quick to note similarities of Africans to apes, the Japanese did the same for Europeans. While Africans are dark skinned, similar to many apes, and have wider noses than other humans, the Japanese racists pointed out that Europeans are hairier than other people groups, as are apes. Also, Europeans tend to have longer arms in proportion to their bodies than other people, and have shorter legs (again in proportion) than Africans, also similar to apes. Asians also produce less body odor than Europeans or Africans. The BBC had an article (solely about the body odor issue, not the racism) about this, and apparently the b.o. is related to a gene for wet earwax which Africans and Europeans tend to have, while Asians tend to have dry earwax. On one hand, it was good that they showed Europeans they weren't particularly special compared to their peers around the world. It is good for practically everybody to bring arrogant people down a notch or two, or five.... On the other, it was still racism, and still bad.

36 posted on 11/23/2006 7:48:23 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Think of the reason for today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: ccmay
According to Macroevolutionists, it could be around 60,000 years (60,000 ya go out of Africa and one branch goes to South Asia and Australia and nearby islands while rest stay around in southwestern Asia (Middle East); 40,000 branching in southwestern Asia with one part going to Europe, the other to Asia; and 20,000 ya a group of north Asians go to the Americas?).

However, in the Creationist model, the universe and world are some 6,000 Earth years old. Some 5,000 years ago the global population was wiped out except for one family from which every single human today is descended. Thus, at the very greatest extent, two people could be at most cousins separated by some 5,000 years.

37 posted on 11/23/2006 7:54:51 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Think of the reason for today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

Kudos to all respondees on this thread so far. Only the guy who posted something about leftist nonsense could even be construed as rude, and it definitely did not seem personally directed.

Evidence that there can be respectful disagreement.

38 posted on 11/23/2006 7:57:03 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Think of the reason for today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: burroak

LOL


39 posted on 11/23/2006 8:06:29 AM PST by beyond the sea ( Now that Pelosi Galore is in charge, it's never too late or early to start drinking.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph; burroak
LOL............ now explain Eleanor Clift.

;-)

Here's wishing you a great Thanksgiving........

40 posted on 11/23/2006 8:07:57 AM PST by beyond the sea ( Now that Pelosi Galore is in charge, it's never too late or early to start drinking.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu

You are wrong. Different breeds of dog are not subspecies of dog, but clearly a Chihuahua is not a Great Dane. Trouble is when trying to determine race that there are no truly pure breeds- to put it bluntly. Put certain stronger characteristics remain and within them are a range of heights and skin colors and eyeshapes as well as a range of diseases and maladies that are somewhat more common.


41 posted on 11/23/2006 8:20:11 AM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: doc30
The prof mentioned that if both parents were brown eyed, their children would be brown eyed.
Except this is not necessarily true. Using the simplistic model, the blue gene is recessive. So both parents could have brown eyes, but both have a recessive blue gene. The child could then get the blue gene from each parent and have blue eyes. So it doesn't prove the kid was adopted.
42 posted on 11/23/2006 8:21:30 AM PST by Scutter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Variations in skin color? Humans are pigmented primarily by melanin.

Birds are distinguished into races within species by differences in standard feather colors. Some mammals are distinguished into races by differences in standard fur color and length. Humans are not different in this regard.

What do you mean by facial type?

The old round vs. long heads is a good starting point.

However, this is not race-based, just as right/left handism, and even blood type is not race-based. Even in cases leaning toward a distinction by people group (race) such as European have around half a chance of being type A bloodtype while the rest of the world is largely type O (along with around half of Europeans).

It could be argued with reason that much of the trend towards more shared characteristics like this comes from prior racial intermixture. It seems likely, for example, that Europeans started off as A- blood type, while non-Europeans started off as O+ blood type. Thousands of years of intermixture have blurred this distinction on the individual level, but not in the aggregate.

The genetic variance of the human race (singular) is not large enough for there to be races of humanity, subspecies or your subgroups (which are one and the same: a subgroup of a species is a subspecies).

I don't see how the outward differences between Africans and Asians, for example, are not enough to classify them as seperate races, while the outward differences between Black Ducks and Mallard Ducks are enough to make them seperate races within one species.

43 posted on 11/23/2006 8:37:24 AM PST by Andrew Byler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: beyond the sea
These self-absoebed pencil-necked scientists/researchers will have a completely different theory/story/explanation in a few years. Just hang on and wait a while, they haven't a clue.

Truisms aren't necessarily true.
44 posted on 11/23/2006 8:39:33 AM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Scutter

I think it must have been reversed. Maybe she had brown eyes and the parents both had blue eyes. I don't know how this article affects that process, but to my knowledge, there is no way for 2 blue eyed parents to have a brown eyed child.


45 posted on 11/23/2006 8:41:12 AM PST by ga medic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: ga medic
I think it must have been reversed. Maybe she had brown eyes and the parents both had blue eyes.
Ok, that makes sense. Poor girl.
46 posted on 11/23/2006 8:43:45 AM PST by Scutter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: ga medic
My first cousin's parents both had vibrant blue eyes,
she ended up with one blue and one brown.
47 posted on 11/23/2006 9:01:44 AM PST by MamaLucci (God Bless Our Troops)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu; Aetius; Alamo-Girl; AndrewC; Asphalt; Aussie Dasher; Baraonda; BereanBrain; ...

Thanks for the ping.

We have genes that we share with many grossly dissimilar creatures, but those genes do not perform the same for us as they do for the others. The genetic code is just not that rudimentary. Evolutionists know that they are deceiving when they make claims based on shared genetic info.


48 posted on 11/23/2006 7:00:33 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
Thanks, this is different mention of the topic covered by this thread.

Genetic Breakthrough that Reveals the Differences Between Humans

This thread was, however, posted quite a bit earlier.

49 posted on 11/23/2006 8:53:22 PM PST by AndrewC (Duckpond, LLD, JSD (all honorary))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: MamaLucci
My first cousin's parents both had vibrant blue eyes, she ended up with one blue and one brown.

How cool! Sounds like a chimera.

50 posted on 11/23/2006 9:46:34 PM PST by Marie (Smart, educated women make smart, educated children!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-73 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson