Posted on 12/14/2006 11:48:10 AM PST by jodiluvshoes
Members of the congregation at Saddleback Church, the church led by Rick Warren, are evidently being ushered right out of membership for voicing any concern over the idea of Barack Obama being allowed to speak at the church recently.
I received a lengthy letter from a member of Saddleback this morning that confirmed as much:
(Excerpt) Read more at kevinmccullough.townhall.com ...
Thought that was Episcopalians.
I was referring to the post I was responding to. You could be right if you were referring to other data. But I wasn't in his court room. Were you?
I don't believe I have an anti-Roman believer bias.
I have some strong biases against some Romanist doctrines and practices.
I didn't realize so many folks hereon functioned as RW's psychologist, confessor, counselor, brain/heart scanners.
Actually, that was the chapter about "Music" in Warren's 1992 book, "The Purpose Driven Church". To be fair, he didn't suggest throwing them out, just giving them a "Take it or leave it" attitude, forcing them to leave. Otherwise, you are spot on with your assessment.
"Many ministers think they will be successful if they are little Stalins because of people like Warren and Schuller."
The tell-tale signs is when you don't even know who is on the Board. Then you may find out that THERE IS NO BOARD! They won't give you a copy of the bylaws. They want full control, no answering to anyone, not even God.
By using a fake, concocted terminology ("Roman believer", "Romanist") you deliberately insult us personally.
Actually, Rick Warren "borrowed" many of his charts and psychological bunk from Carl Jung, a protoge' of Sigmund Freud. While Warren defenders viciously deny it, there are charts in Carl Jung's writings that are identical to those used by Rick Warren, pointing toward what some people consider actual outright plagiarism.
That's unchristian and sick -- sounds more like something a cult would do ... what's the matter with these people?
No. Not so. Not true.
I merely refuse to let you exclusively, monopolistically OWN the generic term "catholilc."
I strongly believe that all who have accepted Christ as their Personal Savior and who seek to walk in His Spirit as well as they can manage with His help
. . . all such belong to The Universal Catholic Church made up of all believers of all denominations and probably plenty who've never darkened a denominational door.
It's a matter of doctrine, to me, not personal insult.
If I were to be insulting deliberately, you would definitely know it.
"Romanist" is merely a term that works for me and others given my doctrinal perspective--which I must be true to or take another, different one! LOL.
BTW, I consider it a lie to label my terms "fake" etc. They were carefully arrived at in an effort to find a term true to my doctrine which communicated and was not inherently insulting.
I suppose we could talk about Mary's fake after-Christ virginity but that would probably best be on another forum.
Jung was not a 100% clueless demonized satanic idiot. Some of his metaphors were useful.
The fact that Warren used his charts in his book without proper attribution speaks volumes.
I don't know. Sloppy at least. I'd have certainly cited. It's the Christian thing to do.
I suspect, however, that a lot of Jung's stuff is well out of copyright.
How about this link, right from Warren's own Pastors.com site:
http://www.pastors.com/article.asp?ArtID=8232
It's more important to look at what he concretely does.
What he does seems to be relatively simple: marketing an idea which he calls "Purpose" or, more precisely, "the 5 purposes" which he says are delineated in Scripture.
There is the best-selling book, but there is also a best-selling training program that trains local pastors to become evangelists of the "Purpose" suite of goods and services.
A pastor who is well-trained in "Purpose" will be an effective salesman for "Purpose" to his congregation.
The congregation, properly instructed in "Purpose" will then remit congregation resources to Warren's "Purpose"-related charities.
It's simple, practical and self-funding once it is up and running.
All marketers like positive advertising, and deplore negative advertising.
One of the most effective forms of advertising is word of mouth advertising.
If someone who has not agreed with the "Purpose" training leaves their congregation and heads to a congregation that has not received "purpose" training, what you have is an individual who will be a strong source of negative advertising to a large group of potential "Purpose" customers.
Warren has pointed out time and again that "Purpose" deliberately utilizes tried-and-true marketing methods. The best way, marketing-wise, to stop negative advertising against your product is to engage in preemptive negative advertising - if one can sow a negative opinion of a product's detractor before he even opens his mouth to speak negatively about your product, then you've gone a long way to winning the marketing battle.
Warren is a pretty good marketer and he knows the tactics of the discipline.
Those that don't stand up to the false doctrinal teachings are weak.
Hello, cellular sister!
I agree the members will be better off...but it breaks my heart for them. They've invested themselves emotionally and likely, financially in the church only to be told they're not important and to leave if they don't like how things are.
My heart breaks because it's happened to me twice in the past two years. Once with my homeschool organization and once with my own church of ten years. In both situations, they changed and pushed me aside like so much rubbish.
It's working out ok, I'm better off I know. But it was a hard journey there for a while and I just feel bad for these members.
Amen! I've been kicked out of several churches for doing just that.
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