Skip to comments.U.S.: DISMAY AT ARREST OF ETHNIC SERBS
Posted on 12/18/2006 10:58:24 AM PST by kronos77
New York, 18 Dec. (AKI) - Serbs living in the United States are reported to be deeply disturbed and worried by recent arrests of fellow Serbs in connection with the 1990s Balkan wars, community leaders have said. In a six-state swoop, American agents arrested 13 Serb immigrants last week and are looking for another three who are still at large. One of those arrested, Nedjo Ikonic, is being investigated for allegedly having taken part in the massacre of up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys in the eastern Bosnian town of Srebrenica when it was overrun by Serb forces in July 1995.
If convicted, Ikonic and other suspects face up to ten years in jail and deportation from the US. "These cases demonstrate our resolve to identify and prosecute those who enter the US under false pretences," said deputy attorney general Paul McNulty. "Especially those who hide their military past," he added.
Those arrested were poor immigrants who had no money for lawyers of bail to defend themselves from freedom, the Serbian consul in Chicago, Desko Nikitovic, told Vesti daily. He said Serbia could not help them because most were Bosnian citizens.
"Unfortunately, this is a huge operation in which only Bosnia-Herzegovina can intervene with Washington. No-one needs to spoil the relations between our two countries, which have been improving," said Nikitovic.
Milwaukee lawyer, Nikola Kostic, said he was trying to organise a team to offer legal help to the arrested and their families, because neither Serbia nor Serb organisations in America have shown much interest in helping the suspects.
"Serbs are being hunted throughout America, but no one is checking Bosnian Muslims and Croats who have immigrated to the United States in the past 10-15 years," Zika Petrovic of Denver, Colorado, told Vesti. "No one asks them whether they have concealed what they did in the wars, what army they served and whether they committed crimes against Serbs," Petrovic said. "All this is creating an unfortunate impression that the war against Bosnian Serbs has now shifted to US soil," he concluded.
Vesti, distributed throughout Serbian emigre community - which numbers a million in the US - said that there is a list of over 300 people, submitted to the United States by Bosnian authorities and the United Nations' Yugoslav war crimes tribunal, who are suspected of having committed crimes during the 1992-1995 Bosnian civil war.
Officially, the suspects are being charged for failing to report to immigration authorities that they served in the Bosnian Serb army, which fought against local Muslims. (Vpr/Aki)
One of those arrested, Nedjo Ikonic, is being investigated for allegedly having taken part in the massacre of up to 8,000 Muslim men and boysMaybe he's not being arrested, maybe he's being recruited. Didn't the ISG talk about employing new strategies in Iraq?
One of Clinton's worst acts as President was siding with the Muslims.
Vlad Dracul and Black Jack Pershing have historically proven that there is only one way to deal with islamic facist trash. Maybe these Serbs were just doing some necessary routine cleaning.
Not quite. Bosnia has become a hotbed for radical Muslim fundamentalism -- even more moderate Muslims there are complaining about it. Perhaps these Serbs are guilty, perhaps they are not -- if they are then they should be prosecuted -- but simply having been "a Serb soldier in Bosnia" should not automatically make you "guilty of war crimes".
But most importantly, according to credible intelligence sources, some Bosnian Muslims could prove to be a substantial potential threat to the US, yet no one seems to be minding the store on that one. So are we safer now that these Serbs have been deported? No. Are we safer because the EU and US focuses on catching "Serb war criminals" and ignores the potential threat of Bosnian Muslim "allies", because we want believe our own bull? Hell, no!!!
Bosnia was a localized civil war between three factions (four if you count the moderate Muslims who fought with the Izetbegovic regime).
The percentage of Bosnian Muslims is at least the same or greater after the war as before. The NAZIS on the otherhand purged their country and others of Jews, such that the Jewish population was nearly wiped out.
The Bosnian Muslims had the largest infantry fighting within Bosnia, the German and European Jews had no army and were peaceful, non-separatist citizens when the Germans decided to enact their final solution.
The U.S./NATO lied throughout the Balkan wars against Serbs. Many of their lies have been found out. Why any one should believe the government when it has a huge axe to grind against all Serbs at this point shows you don't have much of a clue what really happened in the Balkans beyond CNN lies and distortions.
A more complete account of the anti-Serb dragnet, and its sources of "evidence" from the ICTY can be seen here:
Many of the arrested Serbs (especially those described in the previous article from St. Petersburg) sound like people I know--hardworking, churchgoing, and family-loving Orthodox Serbian immigrants from "Bosnia". Nikola Kostic is a noble man (and former head of the Serbian Unity Conference) who has defended many accused Serbs in the past, even in front of the kangaroo "court" in The Hague.
For more on that Boskic guy (a Croat) mentioned in the Washington Post article in post #11, and Boskic' Croat-mercenary unit, see
(Thanks to joan.)
I see, according to you if someone denies that an alleged genocide took place (let say of Kosovo Muslims by murderous Serbs and Gypsies) then he is like a Holocaust denier.
Now, do you deny that Bosnian Muslims committed the genocide on Krajina Serbs (with the support of NATO/Croatians and Muslim Albanians)? Do you deny it?
Yeah? What about it?
Read: The Tears of the Mighty
Clinton fought the Yugoslav war on the wrong side. Unfortunately this latest episode is one more piece of evidence that CLINTON STILL OWNS THE FBI. Bush and Mueller have done absolutely nothing to shovel out clinton's useful idiots in the bureau. In fact, they have continued to promote and reward them. Political idiocy and moral madness.
The Bosnian Muslims had no need of camps as they beheaded most of the Serbs they captured.
You gotta be kidding. Over 10,000 Nazis settled in U.S. after WWII and lived without being investigated. Nazi scientists were brought in bulk under Paperclip program. American space program was led by people who worked P.O.W.'s to death. (Nazi rockets were lablled V1, V2, American was labelled SaturnV, go figure).
CIA recruited Nazi spies and formed Gehlen network and formed German spy agency BND. The headquaters of BND was located in Pullach, near Munich. Pullach was retreayt of Nazi bigwigs during The Third reich.
Last but not least, American commissioner John Mc CLoy proclaimed amnesty for all Nazis and pulled one of the worst war criminals Albert Krups out of jail and returned all ill gotten property to him.
U.S. is and never was in business of prosecuting Nazis.
If those Serbs were Nazis, they would be given red carpet treatment instead of cold cells.
Comparing Serbs with Nazis is an act of Nazi revisionism.
Bosnian Muslims operated concentration camps even after the end of the war, with full knowledge of UN. There were over 150 camps for Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia. The hoax about Serb extermination camps was preemptive propaganda coup to hide this fact.
Focus on the issue here -- the reason why this is a problem is due to the fact that there have been no such actions in the U.S. that target Bosnian Muslim or Croat immigrants who (might've) lied on their applications. They were involved in the war as well, so why not show some due diligence and comb their communities, too?
Why are the Serbs being singled out, when there is ample evidence of Croat and Muslim war crimes and there's a rather strong possibility that some of those war criminals might be residing in the U.S?
Nobody here is defending any war crimes or war criminals. I just have a really big problem with double standards, that's all.
The only people that are "lying" are those denying that these atrocities occurred. Starving people to death is wrong, even if you consider that acceptable. Gang raping woman is wrong, even if you consider them lesser.
The real liars are having a hard time in court.
You guys keep denying it and you scream really loud, but so far you're loosing in the courts as well. Because as said:
The UN saw it and reported it.
NATO troops saw it from multiple countries.
EU representatives saw it and reported on it.
The international media saw it.
Many were displaced and these refugees were apparent to all. Germany alone took on 250,000 refugees. Many of them obviously physically abused.
But according to you, it's a huge conspiracy against Serbia. You know what we call most conspiracy theorists like you?
You're attempting to rewrite history, and screaming loud and just throwing the word liar around is not going to change the fact of who the aggressor was, who didn't want to stop the war or the genocide. Today you are attempting to "justify" or "deny" these actions. You're a low life, I hope you're not an American.
"Nobody here is defending any war crimes or war criminals." You wrote.
I suggest you read the posts again.
Karajan was also a NAZI. In totalitarian regimes the only way to survive is to buy into the system. This is in Iraq as well, and was the case in the former DDR. The Germans took over many former soldiers from the Nationale Volks Armee and in Iraq today even some former Baathists are back in government. But they have gone through a debaathification and vetting process (much like denazification after WWII) and were not the ones who were personally culpable of war crimes under the Saddam regime or on the East West boarder in the German case. The guards at the boarder who shot people dead for trying to get to the West sure did find themselves in court after unification, and Saddam, some top military officers, and other Baathists are in prison for a reason.
Example: Helmut Schmidt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Schmidt
He served in the German Army in WWII, is he a bad guy? No. He later became Chancellor.
Much of what you write is folklore mixed with half truths.
Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun Since this is the guy youre referring to I suggest you read a bit about him, since what youre doing is throwing out half baked insinuations that are flimsy at best trying to concoct some BS relativistic argument.
What did von Braun personally do that would make him a war criminal? Please tell me? Do you think that maybe 99% of those living around Dachau knew what was going on? They did. Are all of them war criminals for that? No. But that guy making bets on how many heads his 9mm bullet would go through did commit a crime. See a difference?
People like this were prosecuted and hunted down.
Alberto Gonzales hard at work once again, aided by Bush I's advice to Bush II - all bad.
I do not know what to make out of your post. Either you are uninformed or hope that I do not have firm command of the facts. The both are regrettable and inefficient.
Following the logic of your post, even Hitler is inocent because also did not kill anyone with his own hands, just like Von Braun.
Here are some of your esteemed Nazis who got free owing to U.S. agencies:
In January, 1951, John J. McCloy announced that Alfried Krupp and eight members of his board of directors who had been convicted with him, were to be released. His property, valued at around 45 million, and his numerous companies were also restored to him.
Others that McCloy decided to free included Friedrich Flick, one of the main financial supporters of Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). During the Second World War Flick became extremely wealthy by using 48,000 slave labourers from SS concentration camps in his various industrial enterprises. It is estimated that 80 per cent of these workers died as a result of the way they were treated during the war. His property was restored to him and like Krupp became one of the richest men in Germany.
McCloy's decision was very controversial. Eleanor Roosevelt wrote to McCloy to ask: "Why are we freeing so many Nazis? The Washington Post published a Herb Block cartoon depicting a smiling McCloy opening Krupp's cell door, while in the background Joseph Stalin is shown taking a photograph of the event. Telford Taylor, who took part in the prosecution of the Nazi war criminals wrote: "Wittingly or not, Mr. McCloy has dealt a blow to the principles of international law and concepts of humanity for which we fought the war." Alfried Krupp was one of the top CONVICTED war criminals.
I did not speak about Von Karajan or Von Braun. I spoke about tens of top Nazi scientists from V1 and V2 program.
In Penemunde Von Braun and his Nazi pals destroyed up to 20 000 slave laborers.
ARTUR RUDOLPH was investigated and stripped of U.S. citizenship in 1984 because of war crimes committed during V2 project. He lived comfortable life for 40 years.
Here is FBI file: http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/arudolph.htm"
I do not apreciate the tone of your post. You may accuse me till the cow come home but you can not change the facts that top Nazis escaped justice owing to the U.S.
["The real liars are having a hard time in court."]
Oric didn't have such a "hard time in court."
Think before you write.
Again, where is your concrete argument reference von Braun? Nothing, thank you. And you did intend to construct the typical BS argument that one hears so often.
Tell me specifically what von Braun did that constitutes a war crime?
All you do is bla bla bla. Never do you construct an argument that ties von Braun to a war crime, because you CAN NOT. Shear association does not make one a war criminal. Just like no one is saying anyone who was in the Serb Army is a criminal. However, there were a few that did do bad things, and they do deserve to be prosecuted once identified.
I quote you, ****Nazi scientists were brought in bulk under Paperclip program. American space program was led by people who worked P.O.W.'s to death. (Nazi rockets were lablled V1, V2, American was labelled SaturnV, go figure).**** Your own words. Who were you insinuating? Von Braun.
Different people got different sentences because they did different things. Some got nothing, and there was no national interest at stake for letting them off. What did Karajan have that we needed? He was a card carrying NAZI party member. But did he commit any crime? Association alone is not enough.
So, in your previous post you attempt to argue with guilt by association. In this last post your reasoning took you down the road of arguing with the straw man.
Following the logic of your post, even Hitler is innocent because also did not kill anyone with his own hands, just like Von Braun. You wrote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Many of the war criminals of WWII evaded justice. This was not because of a deliberate intent of the US, rather the inability to determine who the bad players were, many slipping out and going to places like Argentina or Switzerland. Many in the most senior positions committing some of the gravest crimes were known, such as Eichman. However, the names of the machine gunners who gunned down 4,000 POW in Dachau as machine gun practice, those people are forgotten in history and no one was going to volunteer that information on themselves. Those that committed these crimes after the war didnt jump up and yell, HELLO, yes I was the one who cut down hundreds just to practice my skills on that MG42. In fact, there were many cases where years later the US forces identified individuals with a questionable past who had been working for them in Germany and they were not high level scientists. No one was a NAZI when the war was over, and they all claimed that they fought the Russians. Many from the SS had strange scars in place of a tattoo. There was also an issue with the shear volume of people youre dealing with. Documents were destroyed, people kept their secrets, there were millions of people to deal with, many of the victims were dead, many of the bad guys fled, and you didnt have modern capabilities to sort the shear volumes of data. Just think of the shear MILLIONS of people that were moving because of the displacement of boarders, POW returning etc. Germany was occupied by several nations, not just the US. I assure you; many war criminals got off or were identified years later not because of a systemic intent, but rather because of the overall situation.
Do you realize that the case of Arthur Rudolf which you reference MAKES MY POINT?
Too many in the US even today, a German in WWII is synonymous with NAZI. Thats not the case. But even so, the NAZI party had OVER 8.5 million members (1 in 6 German adults). As I attempted to explain before, if you were going to be a somebody you had to join. While amoral and most surly were knowledgeable at least to a large degree of the evil this party was involved with, most of these members did not personally do anything for which you can call them a war criminal.
Arthur Rudolf once he returned to Germany in the mid 80s didnt even get prosecuted by the Germans because there was inadequate evidence of wrong doing. Like the conspiracy theories of the US knowing about the imminent attack on Pearl Harbor, this argument of We let NAZI war criminals off the hook that worked for us BS keeps surfacing. Truth is, Arthur Rudolf more or less settled this issue and left the US and renounced his US citizenship on our request. He was never found guilty of anything and most likely never would have been (But this is speculation). He feared for his safety and we didnt want the mess, so he left. Its pathetic when you have to resort to something like this in an attempt to make your point.
**** BTW - I suggest you read your own link to the FBI record since its rather amusing that you post a link that has a bunch of American colleagues saying what a great guy he was and nothing incriminating in it! ****
However, I will even somewhat agree with you. The laws of man are imperfect, and those who apply these laws are imperfect as well. This is true even today as it was in 1946 when Europe was a mess. But the statement that the US shielded NAZI war criminals is largely folklore. Its one of those frequently repeated statements that when you press people for real tangibles ends up empty handed. Just like the theory that we were aware of Pearl Harbor before it happened, or that the bomb need not be dropped; this argument that you propose is usually presented in conjuction with another agenda, but is hollow when it comes to facts.
["You're right! I'll think a lot harder before I post the next time."]
Nice to hear that, and don't give me Wikipeida stuff.
Use your own head...but of course I may be asking too much.
Von Braun was in position to prevent this and he did not. Neither did Rudolph.
Your notion that membership in Nazi party was not criminal act itself goes against The Nuremberg judgement. NSDAP was declared to be a CRIMINAL ORGANISATION.
As of idea that foreknowledge of Pearl Harbour is some kind of conspiracy theory, it shows that your knowledge is at least 50 years behind the published facts.
Yes, it was one of his worse acts. But, he was groomed during the time when he received the Rhodes Scholarship to lead this illegal act of entering the Balkans. It worked like a charm. He was groomed to be president by the Globalist and he fulfilled that role very well. Monica was the distraction from the Balkans, not the other way around. This is the reality. We were on the wrong side but by exact design. It is in fact about the oil reserves in the Caspian plus to provoke the Russians into a war as we have tried provoke since the 60's. The independence of Kosovo and fulfillment of the Greater Albania since 1948 (BK movement) which we were main players to design (Reference Operation Fiend (Frank Wisner, Sr.) It was a CIA disaster. We sided with the Muslims since we trained Bin Laden in Afghanistan, then worked with ISI to move thousands to Bosnia, Croatia and finally to Kosovo. The "So-called" 8,000 massacred is a lot of bologna and hogwash. Yes, somewhere in the area of 3,000-3,500 or so, were killed but mostly were combatants and victims of war. The Muslims murdered and "jihaded" their way from Bosnia to Kosovo and have not finished yet, under our watch. This is the cold truth and its very disturbing. The big picture is well beyond Clinton..he is just a footnote.
This arrest boondoggle is all about timing and political influence. I would venture a guess that the arresting officers even believe they are doing the right thing, but they are pawns in the same BS game.
There are many of the Albanian diaspora that are working like the rest of us. However, there is a signficant number that are members of the Albanian Mafia and operate without much problem.
The issue of these arrests is timing, in order to influence Congressional members to go pro-independence for Kosovo and also serve as a reminder to the rest of the world about the exaggerated version of the war in the Balkans. Now, the Serbs are not innocent either. The paramilitaries did act with impunity by taking advantage of the situation and did commit crimes. There were no rape camps, nor were there any massacres that equaled WWII etc....however, one must not forget who captured Milosevic in the first place.
Long way around, yes, one of many Clinton's worse acts was supporting the Muslim massacres then and continue even up to today....
"Nice to hear that, and don't give me Wikipeida stuff"
It's groan inducing, having to read arguments from people who think that taking a quick gander at WIKIPEDIA ( FFS ) is research.
Red6, do yourself a favour and read the ICTY TRANSCRIPTS to, for example, the Milosevic case ( about 50,000 pages ) , the Kyle case ( 10,000 pages ) the Blagojevic and Jokic case ( another 10,000 odd pages ) before you embarrass yourself with WIKI F*&&^%G PEDIA
"And the Bush administration has done nothing different, just continuing the same policy."
Very well put and right on target.......I call it "wind up toy"...
100,000 Kososo Albanians, missing feared massacred...oppps, sorry, it's really 10,000 K-Albanians were massacred....opppps, zorry, we only found 2,108 bodies, and 22 were from a Serbian mass graves....opppss, we gave the K-Albanians wrong body parts, should we tell them...(UN), so, what happened to the rest?
200,000....I don't think so.....it is a complete falsehood.
BS, the Holocaust did happen. Iran with a special commission? :)) That's like a Hells Angel Special commission to determine whether or not Charles manson was guilty....lolol...:))
"The bodies revealed on Thursday were thought to be those of Kosovo Albanians removed from Kosovo as part of a cover-up allegedly ordered by former President Slobodan Milosevic during his military campaign in 1999. "
why is it always "believed to be", "thought to be", "could be". Also, many of the bodies are mixed Serbs and Albanians killed by the ill fated and poorly planned NATO bombing, that left more dead than the Serbs could of killed themselves. Ever hear of plants at the right time.
"A vision of Hell" ?????
You got to be kidding...their hands are free, they are not starving, they have clothes on, they have no look of fear or distress on their faces....I see no physical damage... this is hell?? it's a white wash...and they are terrorist. Last I heard, you contain and put terrorist in camps. They look well fed and just a little uncomfortable.
They are waiting for the bus to take them to the movies..it looks like.
The ICTY's star witness was a perjured loon, Erdemovic, who was
a) paid in gold bullion. BTW the VRS was completely broke.
b) his boss ( of the 12 SD ) later worked in Paris as French military intel officer. ( CRIPES, I wonder how likely that was )
c) he can't recall why his best friend tried to kill him and some of his buddies a day or so after he supposedly executed a couple of thousand POWs. ( Which should get you thinking either his memory is bunk OR he's concealing something. Either way, it destroys all credibility )
d) he's an ethnic CROAT not a Serb. Indeed for most of the war, his unit had not a single ethnic SERB in it.
There's a billion and one other reasons why his testimony is CRAP but that should give you the general gist.
But to Red6, Erdemovic is a witness from heaven. Wikipedia rave over him too. 'Nuff said.
Exactly, they in fact beheaded and murdered their prisoners. This would tend to piss off their comrades I do think.
I know, I know, I know. But to Red6 it's Hell on Earth.
People who quote from Wikipedia, that's Hell on Earth.
Hey, DTA, I got on up on you. How does this "FACT" sound;
Quote: "Without the capital supplied by WALL STREET, there would not have been no I.G. Farben in the first place, and almost certainly no Adolf Hitler and World War II" Historian Anthony Sutton.
Not only did we take the criminals in but we actually help to bank roll and support the Nazi movement, (reference General Motors with Henry Ford's support), at the same time we were fighting them in Europe. Fact of history.
only a sampling....
["only a sampling.... "]
Well, in the midst of your sampling technique, don't forget about Joseph P. Kennedy.
absolutely.........I'll call you, here is the book...:)
I am an American, former military, patriot and wants my country back as a Constitutional Republic and not ruled by the International bankers and weak or President that support these international bankers. To begin a healing process, one must face the fact that a cancer does exist, and not in denial as a person with cancer who won't face it.
"Two men were then backed as leaders for major Western countries: Franklin D. Roosevelt in the United States and Adolf Hitler in Germany. The Roosevelt New Deal and Hitler's Four Year Plan had great similarities. The Roosevelt and Hitler plans were plans for fascist takeovers of their respective countries. While Roosevelt's NRA failed, due to then-operating constitutional constraints, Hitler's Plan succeeded.
Why did the Wall Street elite, the international bankers, want Roosevelt and Hitler in power? This is an aspect we have not explored. According to the "myth of 'Sidney Warburg,'" Wall Street wanted a policy of revenge; that is, it wanted war in Europe between France and Germany. We know even from Establishment history that both Hitler and Roosevelt acted out policies leading to war.
The link-ups between persons and events in this three-book series would require another book. But a single example will perhaps indicate the remarkable concentration of power within a relatively few organizations, and the use of this power.
On May 1st, 1918, when the Bolsheviks controlled only a small fraction of Russia (and were to come near to losing even that fraction in the summer of 1918), the American League to Aid and Cooperate with Russia was organized in Washington, D.C. to support the Bolsheviks. This was not a "Hands off Russia" type of committee formed by the Communist Party U.S.A. or its allies. It was a committee created by Wall Street with George P. Whalen of Vacuum Oil Company as Treasurer and Coffin and Oudin of General Electric, along with Thompson of the Federal Reserve System, Willard of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, and assorted socialists."
And U.S. soldiers were not on the ground and witnesses to anything before the bombings. (Unless you can give names and reports, but you haven't provided this.) But CANADIAN soldiers were - and they have said that Muslims DID stage attacks against their own people for PR purposes. They and others stationed there have written books and testified that the Muslims did provoke and initiate attacks as well.
You should read James R. Davis' "The Sharp End" which reveals the Muslim tactics. He called their forces (Bosnian Muslim government forces) "animals".
Canadian troops were also on the ground witnesses to Croats murdering Serb civilians and ethnically cleansing them, killing their livestock and burning their houses in the MEDAK POCKET 1993. The ICTY however is not interested in this very well documented crimes witnessed by UN soldiers who have pictures too. The soldiers want to testify and show their crime photos - but the ICTY only wants to downplay and hide the genuine solid evidence and proof against Serbs.
As for NASER ORIC, top journalists, John Pomfret of the Washington Post and Bill Schiller of the Toronto Star, visited him in Srebrenica during the war and he showed videos he and his men took of Serb villages they had destroyed - THERE WAS A PILE OF HEADLESS SERB SOLDIERS - and Naser Oric bragged about the killing he did in the villages and told how he killed them - "cold weapons", explosives, etc.
The ICTY did not call these witnesses to evidence, nor show the films the Muslims took of their crimes which they watch with pleasure, nor the photos of destruction with Naser Oric and his men posing in front of destroyed churches and Serb property. The ICTY watered down the accusations and left out much evidence to give Naser Oric an easy trial where even the prosecution checked itself on evidence against him.
And you really need to answer the question of how a bunch of men sitting casually on their @sses and looking unscratched/injured or even dirty is a picture of "Hell" (your second link).
Your picture is really a photo of how a simple temporary detention of the enemy caught in the war is somehow made into being a "concentration camp". So you are providing evidence of propaganda and hype where the reality doesn't match the words/claims.
Those truly in hell were the Serb POWs held in underground tunnels and not having the media run around taking pictures of them as they did the Bosnian Muslim men. Serbs who, if they survived, came out on stretchers, with scars, mutilations, and so on. The Bosnian Muslims show no signs of torture upon release.
CRUSADE TO SAVE THE SERBS!!!!!