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Views of Giuliani put GOP to the test
The Baltimore Sun ^ | 2-12-2007 | Paul West

Posted on 02/12/2007 2:54:43 PM PST by TitansAFC

Views of Giuliani put GOP to the test

His moderate stands on social issues part with conservative base

.......On the first day of his five-day California swing, a blog popular with state conservatives, Flash Report.org, posted a YouTube clip from a February 2000 Meet the Press in which Giuliani boasts that no public official in the nation is "more strongly pro-immigrant than I am."

For conservatives who want a president who will crack down on illegal immigration, that sort of talk is very troubling.

"That's a big mistake," said Linda Sutter, 50, of Crescent City, Calif., who supports Giuliani because "I feel secure with him." After learning about his positions on immigration and other issues, the retired correctional officer acknowledged that she was "not completely informed. ... Some of those things might stop me from voting for him."

Even those who have joined his campaign acknowledge that their knowledge of his views is sketchy.....

(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 1nyisa3rdwordcity; 2008; adulterer; berniekerick; bluestateliberal; corrupt; demsloverudy; electionpresident; elections; extremistrant; gop; gungrabbingrino; ny; pantiesinawad; primary; proimmigrant; rayharding; republicans; rightwinghysteria; rudysgayroomates; rutards; sociallyinept; statist; yuppieslovehim
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......Giuliani boasts that no public official in the nation is "more strongly pro-immigrant than I am."....

Ouch!

1 posted on 02/12/2007 2:54:45 PM PST by TitansAFC
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To: TitansAFC
Views of Giuliani put GOP to the test His moderateLIBERAL stands on social issues part with conservative base
2 posted on 02/12/2007 2:58:03 PM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: narses; Spiff

Ping!


3 posted on 02/12/2007 2:58:39 PM PST by TitansAFC (Pacifism is not peace; pacifists are not peacemakers.)
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To: TitansAFC
Said it before, I'll say it again.

I will not vote for Giuliani under any conditions. McCain either.
4 posted on 02/12/2007 2:59:14 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: TitansAFC
A female who would support/vote for liberal RINO-rudy because, "I feel secure with him."

Didn't Rush have a name for these type of women a few years back?

5 posted on 02/12/2007 3:00:54 PM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: taxcontrol

Compared to Giuliani, McCain actually looks good.


6 posted on 02/12/2007 3:01:25 PM PST by Redcloak (The 2nd Amendment isn't about sporting goods.)
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To: TitansAFC

he fought the federal government to maintain NY's "sanctuary city" stance. So much for the law and order reputation.


7 posted on 02/12/2007 3:03:02 PM PST by flashbunny (<----- Click here if you hate RINOs!)
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To: taxcontrol
I would rather vote for a candidate than against one, but if I am forced to vote against Hitlery, I will vote for Giuliani. This is not new on Rudy. True conservatives have known for a long time that he is liberal.
8 posted on 02/12/2007 3:04:00 PM PST by Hambone02 (USAF AMMO IYAAYAS)
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To: TitansAFC
Even those who have joined his campaign acknowledge that their knowledge of his views is sketchy . . .

This is what is called a "delusional cult of personality."

9 posted on 02/12/2007 3:05:14 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: Hambone02

To clarify, I will only vote for Rudy if he makes it past the primaries. Otherwise, no. And, I hope he doesn't make it.


10 posted on 02/12/2007 3:05:34 PM PST by Hambone02 (USAF AMMO IYAAYAS)
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To: TitansAFC
. . . Linda Sutter, 50, of Crescent City, Calif., who supports Giuliani because "I feel secure with him."

This is the kind of dopey dip-sh!t who voted for Bill Clinton twice, and who -- truth be told -- really has no business participating in a system of elected government.

11 posted on 02/12/2007 3:06:56 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: TitansAFC

Immigrant, not illegal immigrant.


12 posted on 02/12/2007 3:08:23 PM PST by Buck W. (If you push something hard enough, it will fall over.)
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To: Redcloak
"Compared to Giuliani, McCain actually looks good"

So does Deputy Dog, The Road Runner, Bugs Bunny, PeeWee Herman.....
13 posted on 02/12/2007 3:09:38 PM PST by Beagle8U (Jimmy Carter changed me into a Republican.......Ronnie made me DAMN proud of it!)
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To: TitansAFC
Pro-ILLEGAL immigrant is more like it.

Giuliani maintained, in defiance of Federal Law, one of the nation's largest sanctuary cities for illegal aliens. He openly defied the law, he refused to cooperate with federal law enforcement in tracking down illegal aliens, and he even sued the Federal Government to keep that sanctuary city status. Yes, he's pro-ILLEGAL immigrant all right.

14 posted on 02/12/2007 3:10:50 PM PST by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: taxcontrol

If it comes down to rudy or Mrs. Clinton?
McPain or Mrs. Clinton?


15 posted on 02/12/2007 3:12:40 PM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: Beagle8U

I plan on writing in my cocker spaniel's name if Giuliani is the nominee. Sure, he whizzes in the house sometimes, but I've never caught him eying the gun safe.


16 posted on 02/12/2007 3:12:59 PM PST by Redcloak (The 2nd Amendment isn't about sporting goods.)
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To: Joe Boucher
"If it comes down to rudy or Mrs. Clinton?
McPain or Mrs. Clinton?"

Donald Duck gets a write-in vote.
17 posted on 02/12/2007 3:14:38 PM PST by Beagle8U (Jimmy Carter changed me into a Republican.......Ronnie made me DAMN proud of it!)
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To: taxcontrol

Amen to that. Having McCain or Giuliani (DocC is dead on: not moderates, but LIBERALS) in office would be catastrophic. Because not only will they propose liberal legislation, but (and I know some people here will deny it, but you know it's true) our Reps in congress, by and large, would be too afraid to vote against "their president"'s legislation, while the Dems will line up behind it.

The other day, someone told me something to the effect of, "Well, what if Hillary wins? In wartime, having someone like that as the commander in chief would be a disaster." Well, you know what? I don't expect that our newly created Spanish-language rainbow brigade will live up to our military's five star standards after their private-use firearms are banned. Yes, Rudy has a good record on the War on Terror; nobody is denying or questioning that. But on almost everything else, he is *at least* as liberal as Hillary, and unlike Hillary, congressional Republicans will fold under his legislation. People like Giuliani think that they can get our votes just by having an (R) after their name. And they often do. But I'm just sick of people who think they can get away with that. And it scares the hell out of me, the sort of legislation he'd be able to get across if he were president.


18 posted on 02/12/2007 3:14:56 PM PST by OldGuard1
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To: Redcloak

LOL


19 posted on 02/12/2007 3:16:22 PM PST by Beagle8U (Jimmy Carter changed me into a Republican.......Ronnie made me DAMN proud of it!)
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To: Redcloak
writing in my cocker spaniel's name if Giuliani is the nominee. Sure, he whizzes in the house sometimes

Rudy or the dog?

20 posted on 02/12/2007 3:16:26 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Alberta's Child
Linda Sutter, 50, of Crescent City, Calif., who supports Giuliani because "I feel secure with him."

Sounds like a few posters on this site.

21 posted on 02/12/2007 3:16:36 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: DocH

We are a military family, and I feel very secure with George Bush in charge. Call me any name that you wish.


22 posted on 02/12/2007 3:16:37 PM PST by Coldwater Creek
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To: flashbunny; NapkinUser

ping. More Guiliani fun.


23 posted on 02/12/2007 3:17:03 PM PST by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: TitansAFC

"moderate stands"
BS


24 posted on 02/12/2007 3:17:38 PM PST by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: TitansAFC
"His moderate stands on social issues part with conservative base "

Sorry these are not "moderate views" but liberal views. Should the Pubbies decide to throw out their conservative views, in desperation to defeat Clinton, they need to change the name of the party - say to dimocRAT-lite.

Waaaaaaaaaay to early to jump on a "media star" at this point in the game.

25 posted on 02/12/2007 3:18:41 PM PST by zerosix
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To: Redcloak

Or, your wife, if you have one!


26 posted on 02/12/2007 3:19:09 PM PST by Coldwater Creek
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To: TitansAFC

I cant believe we are even talking about this LIBERAL for the republican nomination. What the hell is wrong with some people on this website?. The media is behind this guy but certainly not "real conservatives". Just one more nail in his coffin.


27 posted on 02/12/2007 3:20:01 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Defeat liberalism, its the right thing to do for America.)
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To: TitansAFC
Maybe they're talking about THIS VIDEO from NBC Meet the Press on YouTube where Giuliani says:

There isn't a mayor or public official in this country that's more strongly pro-immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about 2 or 3 years ago.

Hmmmm...what was that legislation?

I just Googled "Clinton signed anti-immigrant legislation" and the first thing that popped up was a site called "The Militant" which is the "socialist newsweekly published in the interests of working people." The next is ZMag which is a nutball anti-war anarchist magazine. They called that legislation "anti-immigrant" too. The next is the Revolutionary Worker magazine. The next is Workers World Daily - they call it anti-immigrant legislation too. I can't seem to find any conservative or even Republican publications or statements which called that legislation "anti-immigrant".

The legislation was passed by a REPUBLICAN CONGRESS and signed by Clinton on 30 September 1996. It barred illegal immigrants from entitlement programs, ended late amnesty programs, and toughened up other immigration laws and policies. And Giuliani was PROUD to have opposed it!

28 posted on 02/12/2007 3:23:12 PM PST by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: NittanyLion

Yes it does, does'nt it. This gives women a bad name when it comes to voting.


29 posted on 02/12/2007 3:24:00 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Defeat liberalism, its the right thing to do for America.)
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To: DocH
Didn't Rush have a name for these type of women a few years back?

I don't know. The other day I used the term Rudygasm which was inspired by Rush's use of the term Gorbasm when talking about how some liberals reacted to Gorbachev.

30 posted on 02/12/2007 3:24:26 PM PST by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: TitansAFC

Not all immigrants to this country are illegal. Being "pro-immigrant" is NOT a bad thing, in and of itself. But still the very sharp distinction between legal immigrants, and "undocumented" border skippers, keeps on getting muddied up. This country has always thrived upon immigrants who have entered this country and made its ideals their own, striving to attain "the American Dream".

But border skippers, who came here originally as only transients, even though it may have been legal at the time, may have simply overstayed a visa, or may have exceeded the limitations of that visa. Or worse, simply sneaked in at night, with no visa at all. Whatever way, they feel no allegiance to America, and in fact, may have some mischief in mind.

Two VERY distinct groups. One, which represents a yearning for everything that is American, and the other, which could as a group, care less about the eventual fate of America.


31 posted on 02/12/2007 3:25:30 PM PST by alloysteel (It is a lot easier to honor a dead prophet, than tolerate a live one.)
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To: TitansAFC

He probably was referring to LEGAL immigrants. Why shouldn't anyone be for legal immigration?


32 posted on 02/12/2007 3:26:59 PM PST by My2Cents ("I support the right-ward most candidate who has a legitimate chance to win." -- W.F. Buckley)
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To: DocH
Didn't Rush have a name for these type of women a few years back?

Safety Moms?

Yes, I expect the Safety Moms will be voting for Rudy. I know this one will.

33 posted on 02/12/2007 3:29:26 PM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: Hambone02

Thank you for the clarification.


34 posted on 02/12/2007 3:29:38 PM PST by Fierce Allegiance ("Campers laugh at clowns behind closed doors." GOHUNTER08!)
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To: My2Cents; alloysteel
---"There isn't a mayor or public official in this country that's more strongly pro-immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about 2 or 3 years ago."---

Ummm. No. He's talking about illegals. The bill was anti-illegal immigration. You're not making a defense that's serious here.
35 posted on 02/12/2007 3:31:01 PM PST by TitansAFC (Pacifism is not peace; pacifists are not peacemakers.)
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To: TitansAFC

What were those polls showing? Like three-forths of GOP voters are ignorant of Giuliani's abortion stance? When it gets to the substance and not just the name, Giuliani will sink like the Titanic.


36 posted on 02/12/2007 3:31:53 PM PST by NapkinUser (Free Ramos and Compean! Disbarment for the Nifong-wannabe Johnny Sutton.)
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To: imahawk
"The media is behind this guy but certainly not "real conservatives". Just one more nail in his coffin."

Anyone that thinks (not you) that the media and every Republican running doesn't have people reading the reaction to the Rudy campaign on FreeRepublic is quite naive.

We are more conservative than the overall electorate but we represent the base that will no doubt be voting in the primaries.

IMHO if Rudy doesn't drop out long before the primaries he is collecting money for a third party run.
37 posted on 02/12/2007 3:31:58 PM PST by Beagle8U (Jimmy Carter changed me into a Republican.......Ronnie made me DAMN proud of it!)
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To: DocH

"Safety moms" are also called "security Moms".


38 posted on 02/12/2007 3:32:47 PM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: My2Cents

If he was referring to legal immigrants, why did he fight the feds to maintain NYC as a sanctuary city?


39 posted on 02/12/2007 3:33:49 PM PST by Fierce Allegiance ("Campers laugh at clowns behind closed doors." GOHUNTER08!)
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To: My2Cents
The problem facing our nation, and the one discussed most is illegal immigration, not legal immigration. Legal immigration does has faults, don't get me wrong, but I seriously doubt he is talking about legal immigration.
40 posted on 02/12/2007 3:34:16 PM PST by Hambone02 (USAF AMMO IYAAYAS)
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To: My2Cents

He's also strongly pro illegal immigrant, based on his fighting for NY as a 'sanctuary city'


41 posted on 02/12/2007 3:38:47 PM PST by flashbunny (<----- Click here if you hate RINOs!)
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To: NapkinUser

Indeed, in one recent poll, majorities of Republicans who were informed of Giuliani’s views on social issues said that they were either minor issues or no issues at all; only 16% said that they wouldn't vote for him after being informed of these views.

In the online GOP Bloggers poll, Giuliani is consistently one of the few candidates to end up with a net positive acceptability rating. These internet denizens are well-informed, and overwhelmingly self-describe as conservative (78% self-describe as 7 or higher on a 10-scale of conservatism). If these people can support Rudy, anyone can.

Human Events, Is Giuliani the Republican Peyton Manning,
2/6/07
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1780060/posts


42 posted on 02/12/2007 3:38:55 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they captured or killed.)
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To: taxcontrol

Fine, you've said. We hear it. Don't bother us with it again.


43 posted on 02/12/2007 3:40:18 PM PST by My2Cents ("I support the right-ward most candidate who has a legitimate chance to win." -- W.F. Buckley)
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To: NapkinUser

Actually, it was like 3/4 unaware of ANY of his stances on the issues.

He'll tank. Give it time, and fight the good fight.


44 posted on 02/12/2007 3:41:52 PM PST by TitansAFC (Pacifism is not peace; pacifists are not peacemakers.)
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To: My2Cents
He probably was referring to LEGAL immigrants.

Note his comment about his opposition to the anti-ILLEGAL immigrant legislation that was passed by a REPUBLICAN CONGRESS. He called it "anti-immigration" when it was anti-ILLEGAL immigration.

45 posted on 02/12/2007 3:42:17 PM PST by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: TitansAFC
"Views of Giuliani put GOP to the test"


Giuliani is an arrogant man. He may think that the Republicans have to adjust their views to his. If they want him as candidate for Presidency.
O, Newt where art you!
46 posted on 02/12/2007 3:43:26 PM PST by SeeSalt
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To: Peach

When the widespread negative ads get going informing people of Giuliani's quotes and positions on illegal immigration, guns, gay special rights and abortion among other things it will change. Those polls only get to a small group of people.

16% changing their opions ain't exactly something to sneeze at too.


47 posted on 02/12/2007 3:44:35 PM PST by NapkinUser (Free Ramos and Compean! Disbarment for the Nifong-wannabe Johnny Sutton.)
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To: Buck W.

Yes, thank you for making that CRITICAL distinction.

Giuliani is himself the son of immigrants to the US. He has a bond with LEGAL, hardworking immigrants to this nation and makes no bones about it. Nor should he.

What we all want to stop is ILLEGAL immigration, not the inflow of legal, hardworking immigrants seeking freedom and opportunity.


48 posted on 02/12/2007 3:46:31 PM PST by UncleSamUSA (the land of the free and the home of the brave)
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To: Peach

"only 16% said that they wouldn't vote for him after being informed of these views."

And since the Republican candidate always wins in the general election by a margin much greater than 16% it doesn't matter.


49 posted on 02/12/2007 3:48:01 PM PST by Beagle8U (Jimmy Carter changed me into a Republican.......Ronnie made me DAMN proud of it!)
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To: Beagle8U

I guess that was sarcasm, because of course the Republican candidate doesn't always win by 16%. If only...

But given that Reagan Democrats and moderates voted Republican, I think it's entirely likely this time around again.

Those Democrats liked Reagan's fiscal conservatism. When it comes to fiscal conservatism, Rudy gets glowing marks from quite a few conservative reporters and news organizations.

Reagan Democrats explained:

http://www.answers.com/topic/reagan-democrat


50 posted on 02/12/2007 3:52:45 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they captured or killed.)
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