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Assault Rifles for Hunters? (Zumbo goes mad)
Remington Country website ^ | 16 FEB 2007 | Jim Zumbo

Posted on 02/18/2007 11:32:57 AM PST by xsrdx

As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; guns; secondamendment
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Jim Zumbo is a professional hunter and outdoor writer employed by the Remington Arms company and Outdoor Life magazine.

Didn't know he was also a gun control advocate, but that would appear to be the case.

1 posted on 02/18/2007 11:32:58 AM PST by xsrdx
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To: xsrdx

Just another liberal in search of a life.


2 posted on 02/18/2007 11:35:18 AM PST by Check6
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To: xsrdx

Yet another leftist idea rots tradition from the inside. The 2A is not about hunting. It is about keeping citizens armed.


3 posted on 02/18/2007 11:36:06 AM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: xsrdx

Similar posting here : http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1786992/posts

I've heard this kind of reasoning before. I think Zumbo and his ilk, came out in oposition to archery hunting because it wasn't effective "enough."

Kind of hypocritical.


4 posted on 02/18/2007 11:36:17 AM PST by colorcountry (Remember: Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.)
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To: Admin Moderator

Website is actually Outdoor Life, not Remington.


5 posted on 02/18/2007 11:38:08 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: xsrdx

Just one final statement.
I've been sitting here getting more and more fed up with all of this talk about these, pieces of machinery, having no legitimate sporting purpose, no legitimate hunting purpose, people, that is not the point of the second amendment!
The second amendment is not about duck hunting, and I know I'm not going to make very many friends saying this, but it's about our right, all of our right to be able to protect our selves from all of you guys up there.
And nobody's talked about that.

Dr. Suzanna Gratia, Killeen massacre survivor who watched as her parents were murdered because she obeyed Texas law and left her handgun locked in her car. Appearing before Rep Schumer's committee hearings on the assault weapons ban


6 posted on 02/18/2007 11:38:25 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Vote for RINOS and cry by sending a self-abused stomped elephant.)
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To: xsrdx
If this guy ,whoever he is, would check regulations, he would find his most feared "assault rifles" were indeed not allowed for most hunting. AR15 are used for target shooting in some matches. Aks are not too much used because they lack accuracy. Most of the "assault rifle" paranoia is from misinformation and a total lack of knowledge!
7 posted on 02/18/2007 11:40:11 AM PST by mountainlyons (Hard core conservative)
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To: colorcountry

Yes, my search was WEAK - and the previous post was not indexed to Banglist.


8 posted on 02/18/2007 11:40:12 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: xsrdx
--an edition or two ago of the yearly Gun Digest had an interesting piece on the great controversy at about the turn of the last century--the "traditionalists" bird hunting with double-barrelled shotguns like God intended vs. the horrible types who were using (gasp) slide action and even (double gasp) "automatics"---

--nothing new under the sun, I guess---

9 posted on 02/18/2007 11:41:28 AM PST by rellimpank (-don't believe anything the MSM states about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: mountainlyons
If this guy ,whoever he is,

Unfortunately he is, or was, highly regarded in the big game hunting community.

I predict this blog posting will not enhance his reputation...

10 posted on 02/18/2007 11:42:59 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: Check6
I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity.

The vanity is there so he's definitely a liberal. I, me, I, me. With vanity comes envy. He's the self-appointed decider of other people's possessions.

I really doubt the Constitution writers intended protecting hobbies. More likely they wanted to protect America against vain self-appointed kings and queens.

11 posted on 02/18/2007 11:47:01 AM PST by Reeses
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To: xsrdx

Guess that will keep me from buying outdoor life magazine and anything made by remington.

Note to Jim Zumbo: The 2nd amendment isn't about duck hunting.


12 posted on 02/18/2007 11:48:24 AM PST by flashbunny (<----- Click here if you hate RINOs! 2008 GOP RINO cards!)
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To: xsrdx
"Jim Zumbo is a professional hunter and outdoor writer employed by the Remington Arms company and Outdoor Life magazine."

Zumbo ought to be fired. He is part of a clique of "sportman" who think their so called sporting rifles will safe if they just give up on Military style weapons. The NRA had a few of these.

This one is actually worse than an upfront gun grabber. He is taking sustenance from shooters and the industry.

13 posted on 02/18/2007 11:52:08 AM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Dutch Boy

The 2nd Amendment is that the people remain the ultimate arbiters of their rights and freedoms. It has a duality that a first seems to be contradictory, to protect this Constitution. If the Constitution should become suborned or otherwise attacked, the people have a right to defend it. Should the Constitution be interpreted wrongly or not enforced the people have a right to defend it.


14 posted on 02/18/2007 11:52:27 AM PST by depressed in 06 (Bolshecrat, the party of what if and whine.)
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To: xsrdx
The AW++ ban will be back before the next election, count on it. The signs of this revving up are everywhere, only the timing of the final push is up for grabs. Probably right before the next election, like last time.

We used 223 M16s for plinking and prairie dog/ground squirrel hunting, in Colorado. The ranchers wanted them out, they dug holes and their cows tripped and broke legs by falling in the burros. As far as I know, no one was scared or cared. The reason, the ammo was cheap, effective, and it was fun. I personally didn't have a M16, I used my trusty Ruger mini.

Higher taxes to pay for socialism and gun control, new donks same as old donks.
15 posted on 02/18/2007 11:52:49 AM PST by Tarpon
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To: xsrdx

Paraphrasing an article in Mr. Dillon's "Blue Press."..."if you don't vote (think, act, speak)like a gun owner, you 5UCK!"

As had been said here, the Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting. If an AR 15 is the right caliber for what you are hunting, so be it.

Stay alert


16 posted on 02/18/2007 11:53:30 AM PST by petro45acp (SUPPORT/BE YOUR LOCAL SHEEPDOG! "On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs" By David Grossman)
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To: petro45acp

Bump

There are some replies on his site with a pile of email addresses for comments.


17 posted on 02/18/2007 11:55:02 AM PST by Poser (Willing to fight for oil)
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To: xsrdx
We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them

zumbo may the type of liberal SCUM that would suggest our military personnel are going around the world and using similar (though fully-automatic or three-round burst) firearms to "terrorize" innocents.

This guy is EXACTLY the type of arrogant know-it-all elitist hunter that doesn't have a clue, and/or doesn't CARE about the TRUE meaning of our 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.

He would probably approve of a gun-grabbing RINO like rudy as a president who would most likely push for a PERMANENT ban on so-called "assault weapons" (SEMI-automatic firearms), after all, as these gun-grabbers (with a "D" OR and "R"-for RINO after their names) like to (RIDICULOUSLY and UNECCESSARILY) point out...

"You don't NEED a UZI or a AK-47 to hunt deer".

I suppose their anti-gun refrain will now include, "You don't NEED an ASSAULT WEAPON to hunt coyotes".

I stopped getting Outdoor Life MANY years ago because I noted a preference for "traditional" hunting (with only politically correct shotguns and rifles), but a disdain for other forms of practicing our 2nd Amendment rights, but to hear this a**hole is working for Remington as well...well,

they should fire his a**.

18 posted on 02/18/2007 11:59:18 AM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: xsrdx
I wonder how he would respond to being told that the 2A doesn't protect hunting?

I think a good response to why would you use an AR to hunt deer is, "Why wouldn't I?"

This pulls out all the lies about AR's, that can be trounced one by one. "It sprays bullets." No more than a semi-auto Browning or Remington. "It causes hunters to shoot too much." Hello. The same was said of all repeating firearms. Why should a lever action hold seven rounds?

The only rational idea (I said rational not necessarily good) concerning AR's would be to limit the magazine capacity for all hunting rifles, as is done with shotguns for waterfowl.
19 posted on 02/18/2007 12:00:52 PM PST by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
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To: xsrdx

Someone ought to take Jim's SNIPER RIFLE away from him before he hurts somebody.


20 posted on 02/18/2007 12:01:21 PM PST by lowbridge ("Of course Americans should vote Democrat" -Jihad Jaara, senior member, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade)
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To: xsrdx

My dad bought me a small pistol (.32 Berretta Tomcat) for my 21st. birthday. I went to a gun show with him and bought a .30 M1 carbine. I've had more fun with that gun. So, is that considered an assault rifle? You can assualt anyone with a rifle ... right? So what's the difference? Any semi-automatic rifle can be classified as an assault rifle .... I just think it makes it more convenient ......IMHO ....


21 posted on 02/18/2007 12:02:24 PM PST by SkyDancer ("Those That Would Rather Have Security Than Freedom Deserve Neither")
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To: xsrdx

Hunters should be careful, in Europe they are seen as wackier than the "wackiest" illegal gun owner for personal protection. Gun control does not stop there.

Why demoralize people who like to do sports, hunts or practices of self defense their own way?

Self righteous know it all stuck ups are the reason we lose the war on terror.


22 posted on 02/18/2007 12:03:43 PM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
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To: DocH
but to hear this a**hole is working for Remington as well...well,

Actually hearsay, unconfirmed. Some of the replies on his blog page referred to a relationship with Remington, and Remington advertising is all over the blog.

He does not appear to be featured on their website though.

23 posted on 02/18/2007 12:03:48 PM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: xsrdx
"To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing."

Where?

On planet Limpwristicon?

24 posted on 02/18/2007 12:07:20 PM PST by BenLurkin
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To: SkyDancer

30 carbine is a war relic, behind the front line defense gun. I have one, it's a hoot to shoot. The wife likes it as well. With the right ammo it's a good close in deer or hog gun. We used to hunt in the dense swamp and a long shot was 25 feet. The handy little 30 carbine made it easy to climb up to the stand. The deer and hogs in Florida are quite small.

The last AW ban put the 30 carbine clips in the ban column.


25 posted on 02/18/2007 12:08:16 PM PST by Tarpon
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To: xsrdx
The guy is a joke. Does he really think that if he get's his way, the Brady bunch won't instantly go after those traditional hunting rifles as long range ultra accurate sniper rifles? What a maroon.
26 posted on 02/18/2007 12:10:33 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: DocH
His website Hunting is Spoken Here does reflect a pretty tight relationship with Remington.
27 posted on 02/18/2007 12:12:01 PM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: xsrdx

What in the world is an "assault rifle"? My AR-15 looks menacing but I have to pull a trigger every time I want to hear "bang". I don't think that there is a GI in the world who would trade his rifle for mine.


28 posted on 02/18/2007 12:12:48 PM PST by 353FMG (I never met a liberal I didn't dislike.)
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To: xsrdx
I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue.
Hey, Jim Zumbo
Maybe that's because...


/s

29 posted on 02/18/2007 12:12:51 PM PST by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a 'Right Wing Extremist'.)
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To: depressed in 06

Agreed.


30 posted on 02/18/2007 12:12:59 PM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: xsrdx
Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

Yep, appearances trump reality, feelings over rule logic. This guy's a liberal.

31 posted on 02/18/2007 12:13:12 PM PST by Doctor Raoul (What's the difference between the CIA and the Free Clinic? The Free Clinic knows how to stop leaks.)
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To: xsrdx
Where are those Morning Doves....


32 posted on 02/18/2007 12:14:17 PM PST by jws3sticks (Hillary can take a very long walk on a very short pier, anytime, and the sooner the better!)
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To: SampleMan
The only rational idea (I said rational not necessarily good) concerning AR's would be to limit the magazine capacity for all hunting rifles, as is done with shotguns for waterfowl.

And what is the rational purpose of limiting capacity? Hit less ducks? The purpose is to hit ducks. If you want to hunt with a 20 round semi auto shotgun, who's to say YOU'RE not be sporting? Every body hunts in different ways and for different reasons. What I call sporting might not be your definition of it. So then which one of us would be right?

There is only one reason to limit capacity. And it ain't got nuttin ta do wit huntin.

33 posted on 02/18/2007 12:14:17 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: xsrdx
I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people.

And you're either dishonest, or a slack-jawed idiot (or both).

By definition, an assault rifle is a selective fire, weapon chambered for an intermediate cartridge. Civilian (semi-automatic only) versions of the AK & AR-15 are NOT selective fire, and so, do not meet the definition of "assault rifle".


Assault Rifle

Military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire.

- Encyclopedia Britannica


FYI Mr. Zumbo, assault rifles are not defined by appearance.

34 posted on 02/18/2007 12:14:47 PM PST by holymoly ("A lot" is TWO words.)
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To: xsrdx

hey Jim - my mini30 is chambered in the same round and Ive taken many deer with it


35 posted on 02/18/2007 12:15:44 PM PST by Revelation 911
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To: xsrdx
This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

I think he might be right. I believe I heard of an old Alaskan tale where a hunter with an AK-47 once simply brandished it in the sight of a large sow grizzly. The she-bear saw that nylon pistol grip collapsable stock, 30-round magazine, the matte-black finish, and milled flash supressor, and gave up the ghost on sight, without firing a single shot. The mere appearance of that AK was more than the bruin could contain. Within her tiny bear brain, all she saw was "Terrorist!", "Columbine!" and "Gun Nut!" and it was more than her heart could take.

The hunter, being taken aback by this, switched from the AK to an old-school elephant gun firing .500 Nitro Express, and somehow this made everything better...

36 posted on 02/18/2007 12:23:20 PM PST by kittycatonline.com
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To: mountn man
And what is the rational purpose of limiting capacity? Hit less ducks?

Yes. That's the rationale. Waterfowl are limited take for the season and/or day. The rationale behind the limitation is to make obeying that limit easier, on the premise that you need time to retrieve and identify what you just shot.

That's rational. Rational and right are two different things. Often there are rational ideas that do not pan out. This is opposed to irrational ideas, such as "You must shoot left handed, but can have a full magazine."

Limiting magazine capacity for hunting would have little effect on AR owners. Simply have two different sized magazines, or slip in a limiter, as is done in shotguns.

I'm not advocating a limitation, I don't see a reason for it. Neither do I see a reason to be sporting. No animal that has ever crossed in front of my rifle had a sporting chance. Sporting to me equates to "less lethal", which is less humane.

37 posted on 02/18/2007 12:27:06 PM PST by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
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To: xsrdx

This is on every gun board on the internet. And that is saying something. If you check his blog he is getting negitive comments several times a minute. By tomorrow the will be many thousand.

There is also an e-mail circulating from a Remington Arms V.P. stating they have no direct relationship with John Zumbo. The letter ends with "I will take care of this!" /large&evil grin...

I'm not sure Outdoor Life is going to have any national advertizers by tomorrow night at the rate of e-mails.

Amazing what a piece of self-destruction this is...


38 posted on 02/18/2007 12:27:21 PM PST by El Laton Caliente (NRA Member & GUNSNET.NET Moderator)
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To: xsrdx

I wonder what Mr Dumbo will say when they refer to his scoped rifle as a "high powered sniper rifle" ?


39 posted on 02/18/2007 12:30:16 PM PST by midway1
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To: Tarpon
The deer and hogs in Florida are quite small.

Pint sized hogs, huh? Tell that to the daughter of a buddy of mine, another NRA Instructor. On her 16th birthday she waded hip deep into a swamp and busted loose with four shots from a Model 629 44 and dropped one of those tiny hogs. It later fed over thirty of her friends at her sweet sixteen. That tusker went over 400 pounds before being dressed. A local restaurant in a pretty upscale hotel here in the suburb of Miami known as Coral Gables cooked it up for us. I was stuffed for days on that pig. Damn it was good. So if a 400 pound pig is small, can you tell me what size ranks as medium or large? Wild hogs are ranked as dangerous game, btw. They regularly tear hunters up with those wicked tusks. They'll rip you from ankle to crotch in a heartbeat.

40 posted on 02/18/2007 12:31:52 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: xsrdx

My e-mail to Remington:

Why is Jim Zumbo working for you? He does not want us citizens to own military style weapons. I will think twice about future purchases of Remington products if he continues to be your spokesman. GOT IT??


42 posted on 02/18/2007 12:37:18 PM PST by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
I've been sitting here getting more and more fed up with all of this talk about these, pieces of machinery, having no legitimate sporting purpose, no legitimate hunting purpose, people, that is not the point of the second amendment!

Ditto.

I'm also tired of the stupidity (and I mean stupidity) of the self-proclaimed "sportsmen" and "hunters", who make statements such as Jim Zumbo has made.

I'm sure most people here have heard the demands from gun-control advocates, to ban so-called "non-sporting" firearms. We all know what they're really advocating is a ban on all semi-automatic firearms.

By making such ridiculous and ignorant statements as  "I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.",  Jim Zumbo is playing into the hands of these anti-gun zealots.

It's a shame Jim Zumbo doesn't have the brains to keep his mouth shut.

43 posted on 02/18/2007 12:37:57 PM PST by holymoly ("A lot" is TWO words.)
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To: xsrdx

The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters"

What do they do? Stand over the hole and blast the buggers out with sustained automatic fire?


44 posted on 02/18/2007 12:44:19 PM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: xsrdx

Outdoor Life and Field & Stream have betrayed us many times in the past by including articles written by anti-hunters and anti-gun activists.

This is nothing new.

Send Mr. Zumbo an e-mail .


45 posted on 02/18/2007 12:44:27 PM PST by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: xsrdx

Screw him. I like my AR and when it gets broken in I'll use it for varminting.


46 posted on 02/18/2007 12:45:42 PM PST by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: blackie

PING!!


47 posted on 02/18/2007 12:46:06 PM PST by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: JudgemAll
Hunters should be careful, in Europe they are seen as wackier than the "wackiest" illegal gun owner for personal protection.

Not exactly; in my experience they are perceived as callous, out-of-touch, rich, idle, aristocratic twits. And there is much truth to the stereotype, for unlike this great nation, in Europe that is the only kind of person who can afford to hunt.

People who believe in armed self-defense, or even recreational shooting for its own sake, are still thought of by the average European as more dangerous and peculiar than a hunter. (Except by the animal rights wackos, perhaps.)

-ccm

48 posted on 02/18/2007 12:46:39 PM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: xsrdx; blackie; Cyrano; shaggy eel

"not Remington" yes but Zumbo is employed by both Outdoor Life AND Remington. Seems both those companies need to hear a major outcry.

I wonder if he's against handguns then? No reason people have to use handguns for deer.


49 posted on 02/18/2007 12:47:16 PM PST by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: xsrdx

If it doesn't have full automatic (i.e. one trigger pull, multiple shots) then it's not an assult rifle.


50 posted on 02/18/2007 12:47:23 PM PST by G Larry (Only strict constructionists on the Supreme Court!)
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