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How the Falklands War was won
The Daily Telegraph ^ | 27/03/2007 | Michael Novak

Posted on 03/27/2007 5:46:57 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

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To: Jack_Macca

Nope.
I hade bizzare expirience with UK (along US and other 18 countries) attacked my country Serbia, killing us to establish Islamic state of Kosovo, and I have bad expirience when yesterday US state department stated that it supports independant Kosovo.

But its just me...


81 posted on 03/27/2007 7:42:32 AM PDT by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: kronos77
I hade bizzare expirience with UK (along US and other 18 countries) attacked my country Serbia, killing us to establish Islamic state of Kosovo

All I need to know! Hehe.

82 posted on 03/27/2007 7:57:29 AM PDT by Jack_Macca
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To: Jake The Goose
"zero pride"

Not exactly true. When visiting in-laws with my English born wife last September, we spent some time with some of her older cousins. I was struck by the fact that the men, from separate houses, had pictures of figurines of planes and ships from WWII in their living rooms. One even quizzed me on my knowledge of WWII planes. They bemoaned the changes that had happened in England since their youth. One night in my sister and brother in-law's house we all watched a giant celebration of Britain held at Hyde Park, and my in-laws sang along to the patriotic songs. I assumed all was not lost.

83 posted on 03/27/2007 8:02:58 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: driftless2

Britain has never been much into the flags and songs stuff - ever.

This is for internal reasons. Great Britain is an amalgam of three separate nations and as the United Kingdom - four. And yet it still exists, is still proud and is still fighting.

When the nations of the UK have existed for up to 800 years you don't need to convince yourself you exist. You see it everywhere. The only thing is if you delve too deeply you bring up the old animosities and divorce will come.

Like a good marriage - you know the boundaries.


84 posted on 03/27/2007 8:13:55 AM PDT by Jack_Macca
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To: Jack_Macca
Glad you're here Jack.

My own opinion of UK/falklands is that regardless of their short sighted defense spending (more correctly - not spending) the bottom line is that they did it when others would not have tried. Cobbled together a fleet, drew up plans for a war they were not planning on, used what they had, accepted the losses, and won.

Don't see too much of that from anyone these days.

On the other hand:
It's true that Kronos' posts on this thread are over the top. It's also true that to a fair degree FR posters are not all proud and happy with the Serbia/FRY exploits of our former predator-president. Nor am I impressed with the weird self interest of some very questionable european allies in that still evolving stunt. The fact that Serbs accidentally bagged one of our bombers does not light me up very much when compared to our bombing of trains and bridges in face of near zero opposition.

Again, for my part, our side ripped off a large and potentially valuable section of Serbia/Yugo and is now in the process of formally handing it over to the bad guys...so I'll cut Kronos some slack.

85 posted on 03/27/2007 8:25:59 AM PDT by norton
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To: driftless2
"zero pride"

Not exactly true. ...

I'll ditto that. I was in London on the 50th anniversary of VE day. It was a big event with a HUGE celebration in Hyde Park.

I'll never forget an episode that evening. I was talking to a Brit in a pub. The celebration was on the TV. In the ceremonies, there was moment of silence for the casualties. I was oblivious and kept talking. (Maybe it was all those pints I had drunk.) The Brit told me to be quiet. I didn't take offense; he was right. I was a little surprised at his reaction, but not in a bad way.

86 posted on 03/27/2007 8:42:40 AM PDT by matt1234
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To: Tommyjo

The airplane was a VERY large tailless jet flying wing almost delta in shape (but not a straight delta). It had a tricycle gear. The leading edge of the wing was not straight. It was swept back in several straight segments. Naturally, it had British markings. From the pictures I googled of the Vulcan, that was it.

One thing I strongly remember is that where the landing gear was attached to the wing leading edge, there were NOT flush rivets or bolts. There were great big rounded heads sticking out into the airstream. I thought that was particularly crude compared to American airplanes, but it was explained to be by a person on staff that it was an old airplane (and that was back when I was a kid). There was also an article in the newspaper about the British getting it airworthy for the war.

The museum was the Offut Air Force Museum (where the Strategic Air Command was stationed). My memory of the situation is not incorrect. I have no idea if it actually went into combat, but the paper said it was being retrieved and flown out because of the war. Since it was durning the Faulklands war, I believed it and still do.


87 posted on 03/27/2007 9:02:09 AM PDT by jim_trent
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To: Jack_Macca
Britain sent many mercenaries, Muslim and non-Muslim, to fight with the Muslims and Croats against the Serbs. Of course when the Croats and Muslims were slaughtering each other, Brits were involved in this too.

They also sent military men to train the Bosnian army within and during the war, but at least two of them ended up being killed by Muslims (foreign Muslims) because they were believed to be spies.

Britain pushed some of the most lying demonizing propaganda ever in the war against Serbs and for the killer Muslims.

And for Kosovo, despite the fact that it's Albanians who are involved in violent crime against Brits and running a large share white slavery operations in Britain, it remains one of the big pushers of Albanians in the Balkans.

88 posted on 03/27/2007 9:07:51 AM PDT by joan
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To: Tommyjo

I just did a search and found the following:

http://www.vectorsite.net/avvulcan_2.html

"The Vulcan performed its last flight in bomber service in December 1982, when Number 44 Squadron stood down. The remote facility at Offutt AFB had been shut down in 1982 as well. That wasn't quite the end of the story, however. The Falklands conflict had strained tanker resources, and though the RAF was acquiring old Vickers VC10 airliner airframes for conversion into tankers, the lead times on the effort were too far out to deal with the immediate shortfall. In 1982, the decision was made to hastily convert six Vulcan B.2s to an interim tanker configuration, using Flight Refueling Limited Mark 17B hose-drum units (HDUs) intended for the VC10 tanker program. The original idea had been to fit an HDU into the bombbay of each aircraft, but hose didn't have the reach, and so the actual fit involved cleaning out the ECM gear from the tailcone and shoe-horning the HDU underneath. The effort took seven weeks from startup to redelivery of the first "Vulcan K.2". initially designated the "Vulcan B.2(K)", to the operator, Number 50 Squadron, the only Vulcan squadron to survive the 1982 phaseout."

I suggest that the Vulcan that was at Offutt was one of the ones talked about here. It was not airworthy when they arrived, but it evidently did not take much to put it into ferrying shape.


89 posted on 03/27/2007 9:20:01 AM PDT by jim_trent
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To: driftless2

Nice story - thrilled to hear it - I hope that attitude carries forward.


90 posted on 03/27/2007 9:25:30 AM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: jim_trent

You'll have to do a lot of explaining. The Vulcan on display at Offut didn't arrive there until June 1982.

http://www.strategicairandspace.com/collections/Vulcan.html

'About our Mk. II Vulcan: This Vulcan (S/N XM573) was the 101st aircraft produced, it was delivered to the Royal Air Force Strike Command in March, 1963. It was presented to the Strategic Air & Space Musuem as a token of cooperation between the Royal Air Force and the Strategic Air Command, and made it's last flight into Offutt AFB, Nebraska in June, 1982. This Vulcan is one of three Vulcans on display in the United States.'

This is the Vulcan at Offut. XM573

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1002559/


Here is the very same aircraft landing at RAF Waddington during 1981

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1046502/

I serve in the RAF. No Vulcan was retrieved from any museum, anywhere, for service. ALL Vulcans that took part in the conflict were airframes still in service with the RAF.


91 posted on 03/27/2007 9:39:31 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: joan
Britain sent many mercenaries...

I wasn't going to read further because I think the above shows you aren't going to be fair. I'm sure a mercenary is a mercenary is a mercenary. They come from all nations. You could equally say "America sent Mercenaries" too.

Britain pushed some of the most lying demonizing propaganda ever in the war against Serbs and for the killer Muslims.

It never fails to amaze how some people can completely forget how their own country was involved in a much larger way and blame someone else. Psychologists call it "projection".

Wikipedia says:

"In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes ("projects") to others, one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions."

Go here if you are interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Thanks for your post I really enjoyed it. :)

92 posted on 03/27/2007 9:47:43 AM PDT by Jack_Macca
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To: Tommyjo

All I can say is that the original Vulcan was flown out during the Faulkland war. The one you mention here was flown in some time later to replace it. To the best of my knowledge it was not the same Vulcan (it looked different in several respects). I have been to the Offutt museum dozens of times both before and after it moved. One was there before the Faulklands war and it was flown out during the Faulklands war, whether YOU believe it or not.

I hate it when someone reading books or on the Internet tells me that something I have seen with my own eyes never happened. Not everything is in books or on the Internet. When you grow up, you may realize that.


93 posted on 03/27/2007 10:04:53 AM PDT by jim_trent
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To: jim_trent

Jim,

There was no Vulcan B.2 in the museum at Offutt before XM573.

It isn't some sort of state secret. There was no Vulcan returned to service from any musuem in the U.S. during the Falklands campaign.

ALL Vulcans that took part in the Falklands were those that were already in squadron service.

If there was a Vulcan B.2 at Offutt in the museum then it would be recorded not only in Offutts records, but also by every Vulcan and aviation enthusiast worldwide. It isn't any state secret.

There are two ways that I can prove this. One is by posting on PPRUNE website. This forum contains ex-Vulcan pilots and crews. The other one is to contact Offutt.

If Offutt had a Vulcan before XM573 then its serial would have been well known. Can you provide the serial of this mysterious Vulcan? I bet even Offutt can't provide it? Why would that be?


94 posted on 03/27/2007 10:36:55 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: jim_trent

I have e-mailed Offutt to provide me with the serial of the Vulcan B.2 flown out of their museum in 1982.

What serial do you think they are going to provide me with?


95 posted on 03/27/2007 10:48:41 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: The Great RJ

Prime Minister Blair needs our prayers, and our cooperation to cope with his enemies, at home and abroad.


96 posted on 03/27/2007 10:53:19 AM PDT by Paperdoll ( Duncan Hunter '08)
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To: jim_trent

'it looked different in several respects'

Why would it look different? Vulcan B.2s are Vulcan B.2s they don't differ. List the 'several respects' that your 'Vulcan B.2' differed by?


97 posted on 03/27/2007 10:53:46 AM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: Tommyjo

There was one doing the airshow circuit during that time frame. It was on display for the El toro airstation show.


98 posted on 03/27/2007 11:24:11 AM PDT by Always Independent
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To: Jack_Macca
>>>>>>>As well as Israel and Australia, there is no other nation on God's Earth that puts it's young people alongside Americans to die if necessary for what it believes in.

You are right about the Brits and Aussies, but when have Israelis ever fought alongside Americans?

99 posted on 03/27/2007 11:32:12 AM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: VeniVidiVici

That old lady in the picture is still sailing !!


100 posted on 03/27/2007 11:35:10 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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