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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: sevenbak

I would remind you of this very plain language from the NT:

Philip. 2: 12

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

****

Another testament to Jesus Christ from the Book of Mormon

Alma 34
37 And now, my beloved brethren, I desire that ye should remember these things, and that ye should work out your salvation with fear before God, and that ye should no more deny the coming of Christ;

Morm. 9 27
O then despise not, and wonder not, but hearken unto the words of the Lord, and ask the Father in the name of Jesus for what things soever ye shall stand in need. Doubt not, but be believing, and begin as in times of old, and come unto the Lord with all your heart, and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him.


721 posted on 05/05/2007 11:53:12 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: JRochelle
I would suspect that in certian areas in the south and in places where a lot of Mormons live that preaching against Mormonism does happen. But I have never seen or heard it. It is not a standard practice of most churches. What the author of this thread wrote just isn’t true.

I have seen it myself as well, even as an invited guest into one of these Churches, they knowing full well who I was ( a missionary) it was publicly taught that we were a cult. I think it definitely happens more in places where LDS conversions are higher. Hey, look at this very thread and the many many anti Mormon posts here, and try to imagine it not happening in places where LDS conversions are reducing numbers at some of these other Churches.

722 posted on 05/05/2007 11:55:56 PM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: sevenbak; MHGinTN

It would be very difficult. One major hotel chain is replacing the Bible with Gore’s book, though.


723 posted on 05/05/2007 11:57:37 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all.--William Goldman)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Let’s see. You are LDS, but you spend your time in non-LDS churches listening to sermons speeches against LDS. Sorry, I don’t believe you. Churches don’t preach against much of anything these days.

Now if you want to talk about Walter Martin or Ed Decker or Christian authors that have written against Mormonism, that’s another affair entirely.

For the record, Mitt Romney was impressive in the recent debate. I might even consider voting for him. But spare me all the whining, and you LDS folks have been doing a lot of that here. You are pretty darn exclusive yourself. If you visited my church, nowhere in it would be off limits to you. The same can’t be said for myself and your temple.

A friend of mine just sent me a notice about his daughter’s wedding. We aren’t invited because he is LDS and it’s a Mormon wedding. I don’t want to hear this victim crap from you people. You belong to one of the richest and most secretive faiths in existence.

724 posted on 05/05/2007 11:58:53 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: sevenbak; Saundra Duffy
While we're on the subject, this is a great pic of Romney and Robertson at Regent University yesterday. Great speech too.



Oh dear, it appears the Rev. Robertson forgot his firearm since we all know that "They Shoot Mormons, Don't They". Apparently, having forgotten to arm himself heavily against marauding Mormon graduation speakers, Reverend Pat's only choice was to let Romney address his graduates.

Romney talks to Regent grads

Did you see FR's thread? Didn't notice you there.
725 posted on 05/06/2007 12:02:29 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Election Math For Dummies: GOP ÷ Rudi = Hillary)
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To: sevenbak

I even heard it taught on the radio one was the religion on line. They had a Rabi, Priest and a Presbyterian Minister.

it was a Sunday program in the AM and they would have a talk show and if someone called in asking about the Mormons they would tell the caller the Mormons were a Cult!


726 posted on 05/06/2007 12:05:19 AM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: Luke21

You can come to the meetinghouse that is the chaple or called Church and you could come to the reception.

If they were getting married until death do we part you could go the chaple but if it is for all eternity it has to take place in the temple.

And if the bride and groom were not worthy they too could not do it in the temple, nothing person it is God law only covenant keeps will enter.


727 posted on 05/06/2007 12:11:45 AM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: George W. Bush

Thanks for the links. Still, I’m not sure it’s happening quite like you say. All the news I found about it dated back to 2005 or early 2006 at the latest. Kinda early for “image-polishing.”


728 posted on 05/06/2007 12:25:16 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: arroyo run; George W. Bush

Very good; I stand corrected.


729 posted on 05/06/2007 12:27:33 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: Netizen
"Did a little searching and found this. Seems to be an ex Mormon site, but, it does quote some D&C thing and gives sources. I’m not sure what is mean by losing Celestial blessings, maybe you can explain. Please tell me the ‘secret handshake and secret password are some type of joke’."

Some of what you listed from the site is true, some is not.

I was really surprised, though, that Joseph Smith has apparently taken over for Saint Peter.

The bit about the "secret handshake and secret password," like all good fabrications, is based on a grain of truth. It would be inappropriate to go into detail on a public forum like this, but that phrase is a reference to certain ordinances performed in the Temple. The accusation, though, is a joke.

It is true that a person who is not a full tithe payer cannot receive a temple recommend.

The letter thing could have happened on an isolated case; some bishop may have gotten a wild hare and decided it was a good idea to send out such letters. I've never heard of it happening, and such a "billing" practice is not sanctioned by the Church.

As for the development in Salt Lake, if I understand correctly, that's essentially an urban renewal program in the Temple Square area that the LDS Church is taking part in. That part of the city is getting pretty old; the LDS Church feels it a duty to help the community renew it. I don't understand why our detractors find this so disturbing. Here's another news story about it: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650196045,00.html

As for: "Mormons are commanded that tithing must come first before anything else." That is essentially accurate. We teach that paying your tithing is a commandment whereby we exercise faith. An exercise of that faith will result in both spiritual and temporal blessings. Stories abound of people who pay tithing first, despite the expectation that they won't be able to make ends meet, then some unexpected development occurs whereby they have enough. It's a counterintuitive effect, but those who live by the law (including myself) swear by it.

To accept it, though, you have to accept that God actually keeps His promises, such as in Malachi 3:8-10.

In any case, the Church will not let a faithful member go hungry; we have a welfare program that is efficient, effective, and envied by many. It is what the federal welfare program should have been.

Between the church buildings, temples, and other benefits I receive from the way the LDS Church spends tithing funds, I'm satisfied that I'm getting my money's worth. Churches aren't free. You might drop the money into a basket; we choose to write a check instead.

Besides, it's tax-deductible. :-)

As for: "Mormons who claim that tithing is purely “a personal choice” are deceiving themselves and outright lying." Of course it's a personal choice. Every act of obedience is a personal choice. You don't want to do it, then don't do it. I find a great deal of personal spiritual benefit from choosing to obey.

This has been kind of a discombobulated response. Let me know if I failed to respond to your satisfaction.
730 posted on 05/06/2007 12:57:02 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: tantiboh
Thanks for the links. Still, I’m not sure it’s happening quite like you say. All the news I found about it dated back to 2005 or early 2006 at the latest. Kinda early for “image-polishing.”

That was just the starter-pack.

You do understand that the trial is still continuing, more lawsuits are being filed? This is happening in both Arizona and in Utah.

Initially, it was expected they'd throw the book at him with sentences of a hundred years or more. And they could easily do it. But he's cooperating and quite pathetic now, having renounced his Prophethood or whatever it was.

Law enforcement, including the federal courts, are not going to tolerate the survival of this cult. Whether they continue overseas or in Mexico (as they did after the initial polygamy ban) isn't at issue here.

There are stories every couple of days in Deseret News. They've done a great job in reporting. Try their search engine (just type in "Warren Jeffs"):

Deseret News Archives

The current charge (for which he will definitely be convicted) is felony rape in the forced marriage of a 14-year-old girl to her 19-year-old first cousin.

Marrying a cousin? Who do they think they are? Rudi Giuliani?
731 posted on 05/06/2007 12:58:55 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Election Math For Dummies: GOP ÷ Rudi = Hillary)
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To: FastCoyote

“I am glad you are able to vote for a Muslim for president, someone whose religion states all kafir should be enslaved or dead. It shows you have lost all faculty for reason since you don’t even have a basic sense of self preservation.”

As I said, I would vote for a conservative. I would not care about his religion, except to the extent that it shaped his politics.

It would be religious bigotry to exclude a Muslim from consideration for no other reason than his religious beliefs.


732 posted on 05/06/2007 1:08:28 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: tantiboh
BTW, not only did the man have 70-80 wives, it was reported that when arrested he was consuming chilled beverages?

The death penalty, I think. In Utah, it's probably still a firing squad.
733 posted on 05/06/2007 1:13:13 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Election Math For Dummies: GOP ÷ Rudi = Hillary)
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To: Colofornian

John 3:16

Rom 10:13

Jesus said, “Whosoever comes to me, I will in no wise cast out.”

You are confusing churches and their doctrines with the saving grace of our Lord.

Hopefully, we’re saved based on the promises in His word and not based on our denomination having its doctrine correct.

I always thought that it was “through grace ~we are saved through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.”


734 posted on 05/06/2007 3:22:14 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: tantiboh
In any case, the Church will not let a faithful member go hungry; we have a welfare program that is efficient, effective, and envied by many. It is what the federal welfare program should have been.

So, someone that couldn't pay the tithes could collect food etc. BUT NOT be allowed to enter the temple, in essence, not be allowed to go to church?

735 posted on 05/06/2007 6:19:01 AM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: sevenbak
but surely you know that positions of leadership in the church are null and void when that person leaves the office of that calling

I said the office is higher. I did not say President Romney (Church title he still retains)as a man is higher.

I'm surprised, as a Mormon you don't know the difference between the "office" and the man.

Oopsy!

Colorcountry said: His office of Stake President is higher than that of Priest in a Catholic Church or Pastor in a Protestant Church

736 posted on 05/06/2007 6:41:49 AM PDT by colorcountry (An Honest Man will change his thoughts to match the truth and a Dishonest Man will change the truth)
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To: DelphiUser
I would be very wary of Giving the power of the presidency to nyone who did not believe in a higher power, specifically a Higher power that would judge him for his actions while in office

Well I guess we had that with clinton...just who do you have in mind now? I don't have the ability, myself, to enter into the hearts of the candidates and see their relationship with a higher power.

I DO have the personal experience of being exposed to the attitudes of mormons who consider that "holding the priesthood" makes them very special and devoted to the mormon church, because they believe that their salvation lies therein...you do the math: Loyalty to country=earthly plaudits...loyalty to the mormon church=eternal salvation PLUS the admiration of their fellow mormons.

737 posted on 05/06/2007 6:42:58 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: sevenbak
Colorcountry said:They think their own perfect obedience and works will earn them Exaltation

Sevenbak said:You seem to think that Mormons are the only ones who believe it's important to keep the commandments and do good works? The bible clearly teaches this time after time. It is through Christ only that we are saved, but he expects us to do our best to keep his commandments.

Actually if you read my quote I said you think it is important to do these things in order to earn exaltation. I am surprised at how slippery you are when it comes to changing the meaning of my posts.

All Christians (not Churches) know that good works are necessary for increasing God's glory. All the commandments are wrapped up in just two.....1)Love God.....2)Love your neighbor. It's simple, and it's joyful.

Now, please tell me how abstaining from drinking tea (and judging others who do), fits in to category 1) or 2).

In Love,

738 posted on 05/06/2007 6:47:54 AM PDT by colorcountry (An Honest Man will change his thoughts to match the truth and a Dishonest Man will change the truth)
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To: tantiboh

“It would be religious bigotry to exclude a Muslim from consideration for no other reason than his religious beliefs.”

So you are bigoted against bigots? Like myself, I presume. But that makes you a bigot against bigots.

You see, my religion says to reject idiots like yourself who would vote for someone whose religious belief is that the rest of us should be DEAD!! Consequently, you are bigoted against my religious beliefs.

Amazingly enough, you are bigoted against my religious beliefs, which are ones of self preservation, while you show no bigotry against those who support the muder of children.

That makes you an absolute moron, your logic is as just shown internally inconsistent.


739 posted on 05/06/2007 6:50:42 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: sevenbak
Please tell me about Evan Meacham, never heard of him.

Click the link posted in my #410. He was a mormon used-car dealer who was Governor of Arizona for about 18 mornths before being impeached and thrown out of office.

740 posted on 05/06/2007 6:51:35 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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