Prostitutes and Politics Why is it still illegal to pay for sex?

Reason Online ^ | May 7, 2007 | Cathy Young

[Lusis]

The resignation of Randall Tobias, the chief of the Bush administration's foreign aid programs, for "personal reasons" following the revelation that he had engaged the services of two escort-service workers has provided rich grist for amusement on the punditry circuit. There was indeed plenty of material for humor in the situation, from Tobias's strong stand in favor of abstinence teaching in AIDS prevention programs to his "I didn't inhale"-style assertion that he never had sex with the women. But the predictable laughs have obscured a much larger issue than hypocrisy in the ranks of social conservatives. The reason Tobias's call-girl adventures became public is that the owner of the Washington, DC-based service, Pamela Martin, is facing prosecution and has turned her records over to news organizations to help pay for her legal defense.

Even those who feel a certain schadenfreude at Tobias's downfall should be asking the question: should there have been a criminal case in the first place?

[grey_whiskers]

That's a quote I haven't seen before: I will try to find it in context. In the meantime, consider my post 223 this thread, and consider how it relates to consensus.

Is the proscription on prostitution merely done by fiat from on high?

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

According to this site the quote you gave was on homosexuality, not perversion. IIRC on a personal note I think I recall that one of his lifelong friends (Arthur Greeves) was homosexual. Was the letter written as private support to him, or was it a pronouncement of a public stance by Lewis?

Cheers!

[goldstategop]

Obscenity is NOT and has never been, protected speech under the First Amendment. One could make a case pornography damages society's sense of decency more than prostitution does because the former is a voyeuristic activity in the public arena shared in by millions while prostitution involves an act between two consenting adults behind closed doors.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Scotswife]

on top of the obvious contribution to breakup of families which it contributes to - the monetary component adds the element of oppression/slavery.
many prostitutes are slaves to their pimps and the johns provide the demand for the slavery.

I don’t think people often want to stop and think of prostitutes as human beings who are being held as slaves, but that is often the case.

Add in the disease component and there’s plenty of reason for a society to deem it enough of a threat to make it illegal.

[DungeonMaster]

Since the United States is not a theocracy, this shouldn't have anything to do with it.

People that believe in the bible vote their conscience. So to whatever degree there are Christians in the country the laws will reflect that. It has nothing to do with a theocracy.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

When you want to discuss rationally, let me know.

Let's go. Why should prostitution be illegal? Can you make an argument for your side without using the concept of "sin," or relying on metaphysics to make your argument?

[Hemingway's Ghost]

That doesn't mean you're right. It's already clear that you're either unable or unwilling to read my posts for comprehension, so I see no reason why I should try to explain myself until I'm blue in the face (red in the joints since I'm typing).

If you think you've done a good job explaining your position, you're delusional. In fact, you've proved yourself quite unwilling to clarify what you mean---with that dismissive Clinton crack, for example. In my last few posts to you, I've tried to tease the meaning of your comment out of you in many different ways, and you've simply dodged me, each and every time.

Speaking in grand generalities is no way to be specific. And it's a very poor writer indeed who blames his readers for being unable to understand his point.

Let's be honest---you're just trying to slink away behind your faux bluster, aren't you . . .

[Hemingway's Ghost]

America should be governed under Christian morality. Most of the denominations you mention there aren't even Christian. With the exception of some Baptists.

So Catholics aren't even Christians, according to you? My, won't the Pope be surprised.

Of course, you've inadvertently demonstrated exactly the point I've been trying to make on this thread.

The morality that we extract law from should be Christian morality. That means no murder, theft, obscenity, contraception, prostitution, sodomy, murder, etc.

Why should I, or anyone else believe, that you are the authority on what constitutes Christian morality? You don't even believe some of the churches I identified above are Christian---I'm sure the members of those churches would beg to differ.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

In all these replies, has anyone pointed out that if someone wants to have sex, they should have sex with their spouse?

I didn't realize 100% of the population was married. Who knew?

[TheKidster]

So, do as Paul said and instill *terror* into those evil-doers of prostitution... I support the government in doing what the Apostle Paul said that governmental authorities are supposed to do — which is go after evil and evil-doers and instill *terror* into them, for their *evil deeds*.

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks, in your case choose verses to match your desires.

Your repeated use of the phrase "instill terror" is chilling. It reminds me of some wild asses of men overseas that would love to come over here and instill terror in evil doers as well. I hope that when/if GOD humbles your heart you accept it and don't set your face against it.

[Constantine XIII]

LOL, I meant what I said.

And so far, AFAIK, I’m right. ^_^

[sentis1]

I’m still waiting for you to post one municipality where prostitution was illegal before the 20th century. You ask for cites here are some more...

New York City
Philidelphia
Charleston
Savannah
Atlanta
New Orleans
San Francisco

I think these are a good cross section of America.

I could sit here and list areas all day long both in the North South and the West.

[unspun]

Let's go. Why should prostitution be illegal? Can you make an argument for your side without using the concept of "sin," or relying on metaphysics to make your argument?

Your premeses are presumptuous and wrong. Understanding of sin and what you're calling metaphysics are rational, empirical, and reinforced throughout history.

[LightBeam]

So Catholics aren't even Christians, according to you? My, won't the Pope be surprised. Of course, you've inadvertently demonstrated exactly the point I've been trying to make on this thread.

Its true, Catholics are not Christians according to Biblical standards. This was a fact among almost all Christians in America before liberalism reared its ugly head the 1960s.

Why should I, or anyone else believe, that you are the authority on what constitutes Christian morality? You don't even believe some of the churches I identified above are Christian---I'm sure the members of those churches would beg to differ.

Of course they would beg to differ -- but they're being decieved.

I'm not an authority on what constitutes Christian morality -- but God is. And he gave us His Word. His Word is very clear and can even be understood by children (provided that they haven't been decieved as well).

This truth was a bedrock of American Law and Custom for almost two centuries when it was viciously attacked by the secularism that you expouse.

Only secularists claim that America should be governed under the rules of men instead of the Wisdom of God. Only secularists would consider Catholics and Unitarians to be the same as Bible-believing Christians. Only secularists believe that morality can be determined by a majority-vote at the ballot box.

Secularists are one of the reasons our country is in the sorry shape it's in right now, and you only need to read this thread to see it.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Your premeses are presumptuous and wrong. Understanding of sin and what you're calling metaphysics are rational, empirical, and reinforced throughout history.

In other words, no, you can't. Thanks for playing, though.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Pretty much all we need to know about your ability to make a reasonable, informed decision is encapsulated here:

Its true, Catholics are not Christians according to Biblical standards. This was a fact among almost all Christians in America before liberalism reared its ugly head the 1960s.

Of course they would beg to differ -- but they're being decieved.

I'm not an authority on what constitutes Christian morality

I'm slapping the Kook label on you, friend. Move along.

[Star Traveler]

Well..., that’s the role of government, from what God says, as we can see from what Romans says — to restrain evil and punish the evil-doers. And it’s clear that prostitution is one of those evils and is perpetrated by evil-doers.

And that’s enough reason to *not* change the laws and why prostitution is *still* illegal — as that was the question posed in this thread.

[LightBeam]

I'm slapping the Kook label on you, friend. Move along.

So its "kooky" to defend the standard of traditional American-Christian morality for 200 years.....

....but perfectly and logically reasonable to defend prostitution, a crime that has been condemned throughout Western history for literally thousands of years? Thats not "kooky"?

[darkangel82]

I’ll have to agree with you on the kook label.

[unspun]

In other words, no, you can't. Thanks for playing, though.

I can't accept your false, Randist-style presuppositions and neither should you. My political philosophy goes back to America's Christian and Christ-influenced founding fathers, not to some materialst counter-Stalinist, or any other revisionism.