Posted on 05/15/2007 6:15:58 AM PDT by NYer
I didn't realize there were still conquistadors around today!
I'm really tired of the semi-literate making a living spouting political propaganda that barely passes for writing!
I didn't realize there were still conquistadors around today!
I'm really tired of the semi-literate making a living spouting political propaganda that barely passes for writing!
This Pope angers all the right people, I like him!
Is it so difficult to see that when we have a tender affection for Mary, we give glory to God's Wisdom and Mercy for His method of entering time and the human condition? Let us not despise His chosen Ark of the Covenant!
The neopagans are making a comeback in Europe as well. What else explains their obsession with “nature” and “global warming.” Its a return to the Germanic custom of “venerating mother earth.”
Ah, now I see where you’re getting the numbers from.
I’m not sure where Sandoz gets his numbers or how reliable his research is, but as I haven’t seen his work I don’t feel qualified to comment on that. It does, however, look out of bounds with population fluctuations in the missions in the East (Caughnawaga, Akwesasne, Oka, Odanak).
What is cited as the putative cause of the mortality, anyway?
The high mortality rate came from complex mix of demoralization, forced labor, poor food and living conditions, followed by introduced diseases. All of these effected both the death rate and the birth rate.
Jackson's (1994) Indian Population Decline gives a good list of the major epidemics as his Appendix 1: smallpox, influenza, dysentery, measles, typhus, and Asian cholera. Jackson's list omits gonorrhea and syphilis, "consumption" (tuberculosis), diphtheria, pneumonia and other respiratory diseases, as they did not spread as epidemics.
Steve Hackel (2005:114) notes that at Mission San Carlos diphtheria and pneumonia killed 11% of the Indians in 1802, and measles killed 13% of the Indians in 1806. At Mission La Purisima measles killed 150 Indians about July of 1806.
Hackel also notes that smallpox reached California late, so it was not as significant as it was elsewhere.
I was baptised because my parents caried me into church. I believe you can be a 100% christian without the rituals, it’s just symbols. But baptism is a nice ritual, which gives meaning to persons, and that is a good thing, but what we believe and how we treat our next is what matters. You can even be a good christian without reading the bible, methinks.
Bless you!
He he I’m sorry, but you got me there! Ouch that sounds like work to me! I regretted imediately that I posted my comment, because I didn’t mean to offend any Catholics, the Pope is surely a good old guy, but I don’t feel that he (nor the rest of the church, Catholic, Protestant or else) is necessary for a free man or woman to maintain his/her relationship to Mr. G and J.C.
The Mingo suffered slightly greater than a 95% death rate though, so this didn't give the Iriquois enough warriors, or supporters, to keep large armies in the field as had previously been the case.
Francis Parkman covers this pretty well working with primary documents.
The Eastern tribes were broken in the Mid-1600s. They then turned to the more settled occupation of hunting game for sale. Whites and Africans could then move into this area without much trouble from the Indians.
The die was cast!
They ended up putting him on trial and condemning him to be drawn, quartered, and his parts tossed to the dogs in the fields. He refused last rites (or whatever it was called at the time) from a priest.
The priests weren't always standing behind the Conquistidores.
There were hardly enough Spaniards in the New World to kill all the Indians even if they stood shoulder to shoulder chopping them down with swords as the Indians marched in naked ranks right to the point of their murder.
The latest evaluation of the diseases points to viruses native to North America ~ hanta virus for one.
He he I’m sorry, but you got me there! Ouch that sounds like work to me!
Yes, I admit that it *is* work. Gosh, I wonder what you'd do if Jesus ever called you to be a martyr! I mean absolutely no offense in saying that...it's just that the Pope, and all those people who go to church at least once a week for the rest of their lives are actually doing something in a committed way.
I really wanted to see you rise to the challenge, and what the heck, it's only for a month. Well, my challenge still stands 'cause I'm not taking it back! :o)
However, archeological excavations and descriptions left by the first European explorers on our coasts now suggest an initial number of around 20 million. In the century or two following Columbus’s arrival in the New World, the Indian population is estimated to have declined by about 95 percent.
Two questions.
You mentioned the hanta virus. I did a google and one of the items I found was:
The hantavirus illness was believed to have been first identified in South Korea.Do you have link to articles showing it as a problem in early Indian populations?
Secondly, the figure of 95% population decline for the century or two after Columbus--was that primarily the eastern US?
I have seen evidence for a population decline in the western US prior to Spanish colonization (1769), but it is not anywhere near as large as 95%. Did some diseases migrate north from Spanish Mexico (along with the horse)?
Any links would be appreciated.
-A8
Population estimates for the Americas have changed quite a bit since that Discover article was first published. Now that they have a better idea of what was going on in the Amazon basin it's pretty easy to imagine more than one hundred million people.
Recently an English climatologist came up with the thesis that it was the death of the Indians that resulted in the temperature drop of the late 1500/early 1600 period.
All those millions of Indians were using farming techniques that produced vast quantities of greenhouse gases that kept Earth warm. Otherwise an Ice Age would have happened on schedule.
The climatologist says that in a couple of hundred years after we've run out of fossil fuels (coal, oil, gas) the skies will clear, it will turn very cold, and the ice will come back so fast it destroys civilization.
excellent post . Most US schools preach ONLY anti white/European history . Right down to the grammar schools it is what’s taught. You cannot believe what most kids ( and younger teachers ) believe as far as history goes.
OK. I will research it.
Population estimates for the Americas have changed quite a bit since that Discover article was first published. Now that they have a better idea of what was going on in the Amazon basin it's pretty easy to imagine more than one hundred million people.
Recently an English climatologist came up with the thesis that it was the death of the Indians that resulted in the temperature drop of the late 1500/early 1600 period.
All those millions of Indians were using farming techniques that produced vast quantities of greenhouse gases that kept Earth warm. Otherwise an Ice Age would have happened on schedule.
Links or references please? I have not run into this information before, and would like to follow up.
Again, a Discover article.http://www.nyas.org/ebrief/miniEB.asp?ebriefID=524
I believe yellow fever killed about 10% of the population of Philadelphia in 1793. So comparable numbers there.
I noticed that you mentioned forced labor and demoralization first though, and then "followed by" introduced diseases. But I'd think it was the diseases that were the primary cause of death. Forced labor and demoralization usually don't lead to immediate death, unless you're talking death camps...and I don't think you can charge the Fransciscan Fathers with that kind of cruelty.
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