Posted on 05/15/2007 6:15:58 AM PDT by NYer
Yes, most of the Eastern tribes were broken in the 1600s, but I wouldn’t exactly say the Iroquois were one of them. They were a force to be reckoned with up until the 1790s. The Mohawks had some serious losses at the hands of the French in the late 1600s, and they also had some trouble with the Ojibwa, but the Confederacy were being actively courted as a power up to the Revolution, when they were decisively beaten.
“Mingo” traditionally refers to the Ohio Iroquois who resettled the Ohio country after it was depopulated by the Iroquois in the 1660s-1670s. They were mostly ethnically Seneca, some Cayuga and probably other nations mixed as well.
I don’t have my books in front of me, but I think somewhere in the 1660s or so, it was said by the Jesuits that the Iroquois were actually only 60% Iroquois...the rest were, as you said, members of other tribes-—mostly the Hurons, Neutrals, Erie, etc.
Parkman’s work is quite good overall, although he certainly showed a bit too much of the racial superiority bug for my taste.
CHRIST is the source of our joy because of HIS “Yes” to God, and HIS subsequent bearing of our sins on Calvary. Protestant response.
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A continuation of Christ's discourse to his disciples. 1 I am the true vine; and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me, that beareth not fruit, he will take away: and every one that beareth fruit, he will purge it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now you are clean by reason of the word, which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine: you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. 6 If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and case him into the fire, and be burneth. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask whatever you will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 In this is my Father glorified; that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. 10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; as I also have kept my Father's commandments, and do abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be filled. 12 This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends, if you do the things that I command you. 15 I will not now call you servants: for the servant knoweth not what his lord doth. But I have called you friends: because all things whatsoever I have heard of my Father, I have made known to you. 16 You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another. 18 If the world hate you, know ye, that it hath hated me before you. 19 If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember my word that I said to you: The servant is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for my name's sake: because they know not him who sent me. 22 If I had not come, and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He that hateth me, hateth my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works that no other man hath done, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated both me and my Father. 25 But that the word may be fulfilled which is written in their law: They hated me without cause. 26 But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me. 27 And you shall give testimony, because you are with me from the beginning. 26 "Whom I will send"... This proves, against the modern Greeks, that the Holy Ghost proceedeth from the Son, as well as from the Father: otherwise he could not be sent by the Son. |
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It used to be that most folks did!
(Ain't modern edjumacation wunnerful!)
It is becoming more prevalent!
They B Native Southern Americans down there.
Nascar, sweet tea, boiled peanuts, rednecks!
It is almost a proven fact that every native that lived before the Europeans arrived has died of something.
Without Mary's "yes", Christ would not have been born, and so we would not have had Christ's joy.
-A8
So THAT's why there be so little oil in INDIANA!
All them pre-John Deere's running around; plowing up the soil.
What percent died during the Black Plagues?
Wasn’t it a form of the Hanta as well?
Without Adam's sin, we would not have needed Mary; so rightfully, we should adore HIM the most!
But sin and obedience are not equally laudable.
-A8
True, but I thought we were talking about GOD's will?
Without Mary's "yes", Christ would not have been born, and so we would not have had Christ's joy.
Oh, but HE would DEFINITELY been born!
NIV 2 Timothy 1:8-10
8. So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God,
9. who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
10. but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
NIV Titus 1:1-4
1. Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness--
2. a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
3. and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
4. To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
NIV 1 Peter 1:20
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
-A8
It's as adiaireton8 says in post #67:
Without Mary's "yes", Christ would not have been born, and so we would not have had Christ's joy.
(Or Christ as the source of our joy.)
Mary's being the source of our joy is bound up with her being Christ's mother.
BTW, I use the Revised Standard Version - not the Vulgate. Sometimes, I use the KJV.
We do not adore Mary.
I’m not really sure about what caused Black Plague...I have heard mortality was 1/3 in Europe though.
Isaiah mentioned no name....
There are two priciples at work here:
1. God's perfect and Divine foreknowledge. He knew before the begining of time that Adam would sin, and accordingly, He conceived His plan of salvation. He also chose His method of entry into the world. God always was, so too His plan always was in His mind. God also knew the virgin would be Mary, and that she would say "Yes."
2. Mary's free will. She could have done other than God knew she would do, but she didn't. She said yes of her own free will. Intellectually speaking, there could have been another virgin (or even another method) because of Mary's free will, but in actuallity God never needs a plan B. He already knows all the choices each one of us will make, and He knew them before the begining of time.
KJV Luke 1:39-56
39And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
40And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
45And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
46And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
50And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
51He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
53He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
54He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
56And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.
How many Bible believing Christians call Mary "blessed?" How many of them view Mary as someone deserving of grateful affection for all she went through? We do not adore Mary, but we honor her as Christ's mother. As sure as the Eternal NOW has perfect thought of past, present, and future, hasn't it occured to anyone that Jesus remembers the tenderness of His mother during His holy infancy and childhood?
Wouldn't it glorify Jesus to honor His own memories of His mother?.... He who taught us to call the Almighty and Eternal God "Abba?"
I'd think that to be more accurate: "We do not USE THE WORD 'adore', when we speak of Mary."
However, I'd say, your ACTIONS say something entirely different.
WE do not miss it; we put it in proper context.
Mary IS blessed was well as called 'blessed'.
What puzzles Protestants is how, over the years, Mary 'veneration' has grown and increased in the RCC, when the early Church did not do it.
Mary occupies a unique place in biblical history. She conceived Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. Then she bore the Messiah. Among women, she is most blessed (Luke 1:42) and all who claim to be Christian acknowledge her as a chosen vessel of God. While Christians admit Mary's uniqueness, the Catholic church has, in its own words, "clarified her position and nature through Sacred Tradition". Through the centuries, more and more doctrines concerning her have been revealed. For example:
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Mary is called the Mother of God
Prayers offered to Mary
Immaculate Conception (that she was sinless) Assumption of Mary Mary Proclaimed Mother of the Church1 |
AD 431 AD 600 AD 1854 AD 1950 AD 1965 |
An article appeared in Newsweek Magazine (8/25/97, p. 49) that examined an issue developing in Catholicism where petitioners are requesting the Pope to exercise papal infallibility to proclaim Mary as "Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." To its credit, the Catholic church rejected this request. But it is a telling statement of the Catholic adoration of Mary -- even when that adoration exceeds biblical boundaries.
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As you can see, Mary holds an exalted position in Catholic theology. Because of her exalted position in heaven, she is able to approach the Son with requests and petitions from her followers. She is prayed to, adored, and sought by millions of devotees.
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