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What Really Happens In A Gunfight?
Guns and Ammo Handguns ^ | 6/18/2007 | Dave Spaulding

Posted on 06/18/2007 11:11:20 AM PDT by Dutchgirl

[W}hen one is faced with a deadly threat...talk to those who have won in life's ultimate contest, to see what they saw, felt and heard, the rest of us will be better able to understand what to expect and how to prepare for it.

Without fail, the people who remember seeing or using their front sight are the ones who were prepared to engage in combat. Good examples of this are soldiers on the field of battle or SWAT cops who know going in that they are quite likely to shoot. These folks kept sights in their "cone of vision" and relied on them when a hostile target was encountered. I have also experienced this phenomenon while working narcotics for a number of years. Prior to raids and vehicle takedowns, I would visualize in my head what I planned on doing, including where my firearm would be. This position would always be some type of high ready position where the gun and its sights were within my "cone." I found that during the operation itself, that when I encountered potential hostiles, I could shift between the actions of the suspect and the location of my front sight with little problem. The big difference here is that I was "prepared" to engage and not caught in startlement. Awareness is as important to gun fighting as is trigger control.

[A}rmed confrontations occur at very close distances (often times at arm's length), that few shots are fired and the person involved usually misses. These statistics were compiled from the FBI's Officer Killed Summary, which are released on an annual basis. Note that the operative word here is killed; [H]ave you ever wondered what happened with the officers that won? Did they do anything different to help ensure they would prevail?

(Excerpt) Read more at handgunsmag.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist; lethalforce
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To: Joe Brower
Where most survivors are taken off guard is what happens in the court system. Few (including police officers) are prepared for the grand jury and court system. While they think they understand what will happen, few actually do. Others are amazed that the relatives of "the lowlife" who attacked them are suing them. The process is, "Hey, I am the good guy here. This person attacked me and I just defended myself. How can these people possibly sue me?" People can sue for anything and they will--be prepared for it.
21 posted on 06/18/2007 11:38:49 AM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo
Others are amazed that the relatives of "the lowlife" who attacked them are suing them. The process is, "Hey, I am the good guy here. This person attacked me and I just defended myself. How can these people possibly sue me?" People can sue for anything and they will--be prepared for it.

That's why I say if you shoot someone, find out who their family is and sue them first!

22 posted on 06/18/2007 11:44:02 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: Dutchgirl
Bump for “must read”.
23 posted on 06/18/2007 11:46:53 AM PDT by mcshot ("Some are inert and some are ert" military training truism from Pvt Benjamin)
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To: Dutchgirl

Thank you...bump to read later...


24 posted on 06/18/2007 11:55:13 AM PDT by Brad’s Gramma (See HiJinx's tag line....then DO it!!!!)
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To: PhilDragoo
Others are amazed that the relatives of "the lowlife" who attacked them are suing them.

Massad Ayoob point this out in "In The Gravest Extreme" nearly 30 years ago.

25 posted on 06/18/2007 11:57:05 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Just another Joe

Read the whole thing here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1313550/posts


26 posted on 06/18/2007 12:00:34 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Carry Daily. Apply Sparingly.)
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To: Dutchgirl
was this before or after the change in gun sights

This was back in the early 1990s.

27 posted on 06/18/2007 12:23:07 PM PDT by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: Dutchgirl
A common thread from the American West was that the men that won gunfights were not faster, but rather simply willing to kill, fixated on it. They didn’t hesitate, nor did they panic and rush. They just did it.

Many soldiers have shared the same story.

28 posted on 06/18/2007 12:31:04 PM PDT by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
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To: Dutchgirl
My CCW instructor kept getting angry with me because in his opinion, I took too long to fire. I already knew that one second was a looong time and five seconds was a really looong time. I was actually concentrating on my mental estimation of time and firing well placed shots.

Following one 5 second, 5 shot drill, he barked at me for taking so long and I replied that if he wanted me to fire faster, he should have given me less time. I then remarked about my group compared with the other students groups.

29 posted on 06/18/2007 12:57:10 PM PDT by fso301
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To: Dutchgirl

Good read. Thanks for posting it.


30 posted on 06/18/2007 12:57:57 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: fella

First you say it, then you do it.


31 posted on 06/18/2007 1:04:44 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: RightWhale

Sometimes the confrontation is in bad or no light. Try shooting in darkness. There might be some surprises if you have never done this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True Dat,,,In this case the point-n-shoot is all you have,,,
Just like you “point” a shotgun,,,not “aim” it...


32 posted on 06/18/2007 1:41:04 PM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: gridlock
I remember hearing about a case in New York City. Four cops barged into a 12x14 bedroom and suprised a guy who picked up a gun and opened fire. Between the perp and the cops, twenty five shots were fired by the five people in the 12x14 bedroom, and nobody got hit.

...but a lot of laundry needed done after that.

33 posted on 06/18/2007 1:43:04 PM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Dutchgirl

BTTT


34 posted on 06/18/2007 1:48:09 PM PDT by hattend ("Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - John Wayne)
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To: Dutchgirl
Thanks Dutchgirl.

I'm emailing this article to all my 'gunny friends'.

BTTT

/jasper

35 posted on 06/18/2007 2:04:18 PM PDT by Jasper (Stand Fast, Craigellachie !)
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To: Dutchgirl

bookmark


36 posted on 06/18/2007 3:07:00 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn the best firehose is an AK-47.)
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To: Dutchgirl

He makes a very good point about the “3-dot” systems being hard to see quickly.

Especially when those are not luminous dots, but just painted on.


37 posted on 06/18/2007 3:49:30 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Dutchgirl

thanks big dog

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

here are the rules until you shoot.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

CREED OF OATH OF CCW OWNERS

5 Rules of Conceal and Carry

“YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY.”

“KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.”

“IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN RUN!”

“DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.”

“DON’T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.”

Detail

5 Rules of Conceal and Carry (like a pistol)


1. YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY.

Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and criminal activities of another.

2. KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.

The criminal adversary must have or reasonably appear to have:

A. The ABILITY to inflict serious bodily injury. He is armed or reasonably appears to be armed.

B. The OPPORTUNITY to inflict serious bodily harm. He is positioned to harm you with his weapon, and,

C. His INTENT (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy - to do you serious or fatal physical harm.

When all three of these “attack potential” elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that justifies an emergency deadly force response. Note that these conditions may be defined differently in certain circumstances. For example, a small woman may be justified in using deadly force with a handgun against a much stronger male who is unarmed and attempting to rape or kill her. For a male vs. male encounter the defendant probably would not be justified unless possibly if he was physically handicapped, elderly, etc. This is known as disparity of force.

3. IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN, RUN!

Just because you are armed doesn’t necessarily mean that you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your situation awareness skills so that you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble as much as possible. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might only be your bruised ego, which should heal quickly with mature rationalization. But if you force a confrontation, and it escalates into deadly force, you risk the possibility of death or serious injury to yourself and any friends, family members, or innocent bystanders that may be present.

Also you face the possibility of criminal liability and/or financial ruin from a civil lawsuit as a result of your actions. Flee if you can - fight only as a last resort.

Naturally, there are circumstances in which you may be able to flee but it would not be in your best interest or judgment to do so. For example, a situation that you could easily flee from when alone may be difficult to safely avoid if your family was with you. Also it may be a judgment/ethics call on whether or not to fight or flee based on what is happening to potential victims around you.

For example, a gunman may be threatening the life of someone else and not even notice you. If you leave the scene, and go call 911 and just wait for the police to show up, you may have to deal with guilt and emotional issues that result if the gunman kills someone. In contrast, if you intervene, then you may risk your own life. The gunman may have a partner, which you have not identified and involvement may find you outgunned. Remember that self-preservation, and keeping your loved ones safe should be your first priorities. Always remember to stay calm and quickly analyze the situation at hand. Use good judgment on how you will react to any given circumstance.

4. DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional, innocent, or justified the situation might seem.

Choose a method of carry that reliably keeps your gun hidden from public view at all times. You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed weapon. He of she might become alarmed and report you as a “man or woman with a gun”. Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might maliciously embellish their story in an attempt to have your gun seized by police or in order to get you arrested. Even though your jacket only blew open for a moment, giving a brief glimpse of your gun, that person may tell the police that you were waving it around like a homicidal maniac. An alarmed citizen who reports a “man or woman with a gun” is going to be a lot more credible to police than you are when you are stopped because you match the “suspect’s” description and you are found to have a concealed handgun in your possession. Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself “is this worth going to jail for?” The only time this question should warrant a “yes” response is when an adversary has at least both the ABILITY and INTENT and is actively seeking the OPPORTUNITY to do you great harm.

Also, remember that proper concealment of a weapon is more than just covering it up so that it is not physically visible. You want to remove as much as possible any signs that you are armed. For example, you would not wear a tight T-shirt that shows the lines of your gun printing through it, especially if that T-shirt has a firearm related logo or statement on it. Also, a black nylon fanny-pack or a photographer’s vest may, in certain areas or in certain modes of dress tell any half-educated person that you are packing a gun. It is also not usually a very good idea to let too many people know that you carry a gun. This fact should be limited to your immediate family and select friends who are “gun people” also. Please, for your sake and the sake of others around you - be discreet!

5. DON’T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.

When you are armed, you must realize that you just lost your right to initiate ANY type of confrontation that could possibly escalate into a violent encounter. You must now have a very mellow attitude on life and your fellow mankind.

You just lost the right to flip off the motorist who just cut you off in traffic. You have to ignore the scumbag who just “wolf-whistled” at your wife/girlfriend. If someone wants to pick a fight with you, you lost the right to respond in any way other than a kind, friendly manner while walking away. As an armed person you must be more likely and willing to avoid trouble that an unarmed person would be. You have the legal and moral obligation of de-escalating any situation that you are presented with unless you are faced by someone displaying all three of the “attack potential” elements. Carrying a loaded firearm among your fellow citizens is an awesome responsibility that is not to be taken lightly.

Remember, once you strap on your weapon, you must carry with it a great measure of discretion and judgment, along with an easy-going attitude.

CREED OF OATH OF CCW OWNERS

5 Rules of Conceal and Carry

“YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY.”

“KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.”

“IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN RUN!”

“DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.”

“DON’T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.”

Detail

5 Rules of Conceal and Carry (like a pistol)


1. YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY.

Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and criminal activities of another.

2. KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.

The criminal adversary must have or reasonably appear to have:

A. The ABILITY to inflict serious bodily injury. He is armed or reasonably appears to be armed.

B. The OPPORTUNITY to inflict serious bodily harm. He is positioned to harm you with his weapon, and,

C. His INTENT (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy - to do you serious or fatal physical harm.

When all three of these “attack potential” elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that justifies an emergency deadly force response. Note that these conditions may be defined differently in certain circumstances. For example, a small woman may be justified in using deadly force with a handgun against a much stronger male who is unarmed and attempting to rape or kill her. For a male vs. male encounter the defendant probably would not be justified unless possibly if he was physically handicapped, elderly, etc. This is known as disparity of force.

3. IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN, RUN!

Just because you are armed doesn’t necessarily mean that you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your situation awareness skills so that you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble as much as possible. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might only be your bruised ego, which should heal quickly with mature rationalization. But if you force a confrontation, and it escalates into deadly force, you risk the possibility of death or serious injury to yourself and any friends, family members, or innocent bystanders that may be present.

Also you face the possibility of criminal liability and/or financial ruin from a civil lawsuit as a result of your actions. Flee if you can - fight only as a last resort.

Naturally, there are circumstances in which you may be able to flee but it would not be in your best interest or judgment to do so. For example, a situation that you could easily flee from when alone may be difficult to safely avoid if your family was with you. Also it may be a judgment/ethics call on whether or not to fight or flee based on what is happening to potential victims around you.

For example, a gunman may be threatening the life of someone else and not even notice you. If you leave the scene, and go call 911 and just wait for the police to show up, you may have to deal with guilt and emotional issues that result if the gunman kills someone. In contrast, if you intervene, then you may risk your own life. The gunman may have a partner, which you have not identified and involvement may find you outgunned. Remember that self-preservation, and keeping your loved ones safe should be your first priorities. Always remember to stay calm and quickly analyze the situation at hand. Use good judgment on how you will react to any given circumstance.

4. DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional, innocent, or justified the situation might seem.

Choose a method of carry that reliably keeps your gun hidden from public view at all times. You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed weapon. He of she might become alarmed and report you as a “man or woman with a gun”. Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might maliciously embellish their story in an attempt to have your gun seized by police or in order to get you arrested. Even though your jacket only blew open for a moment, giving a brief glimpse of your gun, that person may tell the police that you were waving it around like a homicidal maniac. An alarmed citizen who reports a “man or woman with a gun” is going to be a lot more credible to police than you are when you are stopped because you match the “suspect’s” description and you are found to have a concealed handgun in your possession. Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself “is this worth going to jail for?” The only time this question should warrant a “yes” response is when an adversary has at least both the ABILITY and INTENT and is actively seeking the OPPORTUNITY to do you great harm.

Also, remember that proper concealment of a weapon is more than just covering it up so that it is not physically visible. You want to remove as much as possible any signs that you are armed. For example, you would not wear a tight T-shirt that shows the lines of your gun printing through it, especially if that T-shirt has a firearm related logo or statement on it. Also, a black nylon fanny-pack or a photographer’s vest may, in certain areas or in certain modes of dress tell any half-educated person that you are packing a gun. It is also not usually a very good idea to let too many people know that you carry a gun. This fact should be limited to your immediate family and select friends who are “gun people” also. Please, for your sake and the sake of others around you - be discreet!

5. DON’T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.

When you are armed, you must realize that you just lost your right to initiate ANY type of confrontation that could possibly escalate into a violent encounter. You must now have a very mellow attitude on life and your fellow mankind.

You just lost the right to flip off the motorist who just cut you off in traffic. You have to ignore the scumbag who just “wolf-whistled” at your wife/girlfriend. If someone wants to pick a fight with you, you lost the right to respond in any way other than a kind, friendly manner while walking away. As an armed person you must be more likely and willing to avoid trouble that an unarmed person would be. You have the legal and moral obligation of de-escalating any situation that you are presented with unless you are faced by someone displaying all three of the “attack potential” elements. Carrying a loaded firearm among your fellow citizens is an awesome responsibility that is not to be taken lightly.

Remember, once you strap on your weapon, you must carry with it a great measure of discretion and judgment, along with an easy-going attitude.


38 posted on 06/18/2007 3:50:42 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: Dutchgirl
Focusing on the front sight is paramount. Many years ago in a USPSA match, the pistol I was using had a roll-pin holding the rear sight to the slide. That roll pin failed during the course of fire, and although I felt that something had changed, I just continued on with the course. It wasn't until afterard that I learned that the rear sight had actually come off of the slide, and they were amazed that I not only finished the course, but I really didn't shoot all that much more poorly without the rear sight. It was because I was used to focusing on that rear site from bowling pin shooting.

Mark

39 posted on 06/18/2007 3:56:30 PM PDT by MarkL (Listen, Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government)
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To: thefactor

ping...


40 posted on 06/18/2007 4:14:34 PM PDT by Pharmboy ([She turned me into a] Newt! in '08)
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