Posted on 06/20/2007 8:58:09 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback
What I find really shocking here is what this story tells us about the state of discipleship, not just of our kids, but of parents and pastors. This story is a wake-up call. We must learn what we believe, why we believe it and then instill it into our children, giving them a biblical view of all of life. We can’t stand idly by while relativism undermines the faith of our kids and robs them of the one sure hope they have—and desperately need. Friends, if this story gets to you like it gets to me, it’s time we got busy.
So the kids aren't buying Colson's version of the Christian message 100%. Colson says it's all or nothing, and wants to "instill" the full 100% of the message into these kids. How does he propose accomplishing that? Pressure? Guilt? Constant reminders and incessant nagging? May not be "coercion" but certainly counts as "ramming."
An earlier poster on this thread told me that "relativism" (whatever that is) teaches that some people are good and others are bad, while Christianity teaches that all people are bad. WOW!! What an uplifting message to teach to middle school students! I used a silly example in my post to lampoon Colson's being shocked, SHOCKED, that kids today adopt the culture but not the theology of Christianity. That's true of most, if not all, faiths -- including the much-feared Islam. Certainly true among the Jewish community in which I grew up.
Finally, yes, telling a nonbeliever that your religion will save their "soul" is indeed "ramming." Once, twice, infrequently, no. But if I understand correctly that Christians are "commanded" to "share the word" as much and as long as it takes for the rest of us heathens to "get it," then yes -- from our point of view, that counts as "ramming." Coercion is not the only form of ramming. I don't have to ask myself why, because I know why.
Why?
Oh, and did you realize that in the second paragraph of your post you assigned Chuck Colson two positions that he does not hold and has never expressed in any Breakpoint commentary, much less this one we're discussing?
I hope you continue to make progress with her. Prayers up!
A quote has become common among the local peaceniks, something that originated in the Unitarian circles about how the people who do the most damage are the ones who are certain. I had been hoping one of them would spring it on me, so I could say "Martin Luther King Junior wasabsolutely certain he was right. Are you saying he was a force for evil?" Then i would move away to watch their heads explode from a safe distance.
No, what I desperately need is a girlfriend and more stable employment. And you really should renounce pizza toppings other than meatball. Thus spaketh Freedom_no_exceptions, unto whom the Great Chef of the Universe exclusively bestowed His divinely delicious knowledge.
I've got plenty of faults as a person, but "sinner" is not one of them. Sorry to disappoint.
Great post.
Ah well then, that would make it positions Colson never took that Freedom-no-exceptions assigned to him in the post we're discussing. My bad for miscounting.
Lutzer’s a good preacher.
Had a teachable moment with my son the other day. A TV character said "Don't judge me" and I asked the boy, "What does somebody really mean when they say 'Don't judge me?'" It didn't take him long to figure out the lesson: "Don't judge me" is code for "I know what I'm doing is wrong, but I don't want to hear about it." I went on to point out that if someone believes what they're doing is right, they don't ask you to withhold judgment; instead they defend what they're doing.
God disagrees:
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.--Romans 3:22-24, emphasis mine.
You: Why?
I don't have time for a lengthy reply to something like this, so I'll instead post a link to an atheist "how-to-talk-to-believers" speech that explains why I'm a skeptic. I hope this works, because I never posted a link on FR before.
What Colson's talking about here is Chriatians passing their values on to their kids. So, are you saying you didn't learn any values from your parents, or are you saying that they rammed it all down your throat?
An earlier poster on this thread told me that "relativism" (whatever that is) teaches that some people are good and others are bad, while Christianity teaches that all people are bad. WOW!! What an uplifting message to teach to middle school students!
Wow, what a total way to miss the point! Seriously though, have you ever even looked up Christianity in an encyclopedia? What you've said here is like saying that a mother hates her child because she dares acknowledge that labor was painful. You've left half the story out, and condemn those who tell the whole story. Sure, the message of Christianity is that all have fallen short and none of us are inherently good. But the rest of the story is that when we have Christ as the Lord of our lives we can begin to overcome that evil. We are first saved from Hell and then molded in His image, growing more like Him as we walk with Him.
But if I understand correctly that Christians are "commanded" to "share the word" as much and as long as it takes for the rest of us heathens to "get it," then yes --
If you believe that you have been fed a pure line male bovine fecal matter, my friend. There is nothing in the Bible or the practices of any denomination that endorses harassment. Could you possibly be confusing real Christians with Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, who are known for knocking on your door on a regular basis until you threaten them? If not, you are again making the accusation of coercion where there is none.
Lastly... What you seem to be saying is that if Bob believes Joe is going to miss out on the coolest thing ever and be in pain forever, and Bob tells him about it, Bob's a bad person. But if he keeps this concern to himself, believing his friend is totally screwed but not doing anything about it, that makes him a stan up guy. Or maybe he's OK if he mentions it twice, but three times makes him horrible? Right?
The link still doesn’t work, but don’t sweat it. I’ve seen the silly “everybody’s an atheist” argument before and let’s just say I didn’t exactly find it intellectually breathtaking.
Who's "God"?
Yeah, I keep hearing this, but...no...still no evidence of a God. I did not post to this thread to debate the existence of a God -- got bored of that years ago, and I do not type fast enough. I posted only to make the point that Colson has a lot of work ahead of him if he wants an entire generation of kids to accept 100% of his beliefs as true.
Seriously, I know what Christianity is, salvation and all. I just happen to disagree with it. That wasn't my point in posting to this thread -- a point YOU clearly missed. And I only posted the link to the "Everyone's a Skeptic" article (not "atheist" -- another point YOU missed) in response to a question of yours.
So what is Bob supposed to do if he believes Joe is going to hell?? More importantly, when, how often, and at what length? Incessant preaching wouldn't make him a bad person...but pretty f***ing annoying. I know. I went to college with these people. Constantly inviting me to church, prayer, and Bible study did not convert me, the frequency of your replies to me on this thread will not convert me, and if these are the methods Chuck Colson has in mind to "instill" his message in a generation of children, he will not convert them either. That's my point.
Good night...or morning as the case may be.
I’m amazed how so many kids, in my OWN church, have been raised in the pew, and STILL do not have a good understanding of Scripture!
Oh, they may say they’re saved, but can they deFEND that ‘faith’??
Will it stand being bombarded on every side when they go off to college?
Ouch!
Full Speed Ahead!
The Captain wants to go water skiing!
It must have died and gone to... Where??
Good!
You are a fellow who will sift thru the evidence to make a sound judgement.
You now are being prayed for (rammed into God's presence?) by folks on this thread who trust in Jesus of Nazereth for their salvation; that you will be presented with 'evidence' of GOD's existance, and, of His love for you.
Myself; I'm off to see the grandkids Play BALL!
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