Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ancient 'Ondol' Heating Systems Discovered In Alaska
English.Choson.com ^ | 6-26-2007

Posted on 06/26/2007 2:32:13 PM PDT by blam

Ancient 'Ondol' Heating Systems Discovered in Alaska

What are believed to be the world's oldest underfloor stone-lined-channel heating systems have been discovered in Alaska's Aleutian Islands in the U.S. The heating systems are remarkably similar to ondol, the traditional Korean indoor heating system. The word ondol, along with the word kimchi, is listed in the Oxford English Dictionary. The ondol heating system is widely recognized as Korean cultural property. According to "Archaeology", a bi-monthly magazine from the American Archaeological Society, the remains of houses equipped with ondol-like heating systems were found at the Amaknak Bridge excavation site in Unalaska, Alaska.

The leader of the excavation, archaeologist Richard Knecht from the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, said in an interview with the Chosun Ilbo on Monday that the team began the dig in 2003. Radiocarbon dating shows the remains are about 3,000 years old.

Until now the oldest known ondol heating systems were built 2,500 years ago by the Korean people of North Okjeo in what is now Russia's Maritime Province. The Alaskan ondol are about 500 years older, and are the first ondol discovered outside the Eurasian continent.

Professor Knecht said four ondol structures were discovered at the site. Other ondol structures were found in the area in 1997 but it was not known what they were at the time.

According to Knecht's data, the Amaknak ondol were built by digging a two- to four-meter-long ditch in the floor of the house. Flat rocks were place in a "v" shape along the walls of the ditch, which was then covered with more flat rocks. There was also a chimney to let the smoke out.

Professor Song Ki-ho of the department of Korean history at Seoul National University looked over the Amaknak excavation report. "All ancient ondol are one-sided, meaning the underfloor heating system was placed on just one side of the room. The ondol in Amaknak also seem to be one-sided," he said.

As the ondol of North Okjeo and Amaknak are more than 5,000 kilometers apart, Knecht and Song agree that the two systems seem to have been developed independently.

This theory is backed up by the fact ondol have not been found in areas between the two locations, such as Ostrov, Sakhalin or the Kamchatka Peninsula, and because the Amanak ondol are significantly older than those of the Russian Maritime Province.

(englishnews@chosun.com )


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alaska; ancient; godsgravesglyphs; heating; korea; ondol

1 posted on 06/26/2007 2:32:18 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv; RightWhale
GGG Ping

Ondol Heating System

2 posted on 06/26/2007 2:34:10 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

That’s so cool! (or hot?)


3 posted on 06/26/2007 2:34:16 PM PDT by RDTF (www.imwithfred.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

I’ve spent many a cold night laying on a floor heated by ondol. You had to leave a window open a crack or risk dying of carbon monoxide poisoning.


4 posted on 06/26/2007 2:34:45 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Fred Thompson/John Bolton 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tamar1973

ping


5 posted on 06/26/2007 2:37:27 PM PDT by fishtank ("Amnesty" and "amnesia" are from the same root word !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Ondol is one of the things I miss about South Korea. I never had to worry about putting my bare feet on a cold floor if I had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night!


6 posted on 06/26/2007 2:42:00 PM PDT by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one BYJ movie at a time! (http://www.byj.co.kr))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: blam
En zo Herr Blam, this 3000 year-old dating is pretty consistent with the age I think the Deer Stones are in Brown County, Indiana.

Now that they've demonstrated Uralic-Altaic speakers were present in North America, it's a simple matter to show how they got to Southern Indiana.

7 posted on 06/26/2007 2:45:04 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
"Now that they've demonstrated Uralic-Altaic speakers were present in North America, it's a simple matter to show how they got to Southern Indiana."

These guys?

Stones Help Trace Origin of Mongolian Nomads

8 posted on 06/26/2007 3:27:43 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border then, Introduce an Illegal Immigrant Deportation Bill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: blam

When I lived in that part of the world, ondol heating was traditional in Korea but so lethal that US troops were forbidden from sleeping in any area heated in this way. I wonder if the tribe in this Alaskan study was wiped ot by carbon monoxide poisoning.


9 posted on 06/26/2007 3:41:02 PM PDT by BlazingArizona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

If you heat with Ondol does your house smell like Kimchi?


10 posted on 06/26/2007 3:41:47 PM PDT by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don Corleone; blam
Neighbor next door (who is an expert in the matter) says the "kimchi pot go outside".

He usually has a couple of them underway.

11 posted on 06/26/2007 3:44:11 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: blam
May be. Although the greater part of the Korean population seems to be "indigenous" (except in the parts closest to Japan), there's been a regular influx of Mongolians for thousands of years.

That's why Koreans speak an Uralic-Altaic language, just like the Tibetans, the Mongols, the Estonians, the Hungarians, and a host of other people with some serious cultural, linguistic, agricultural and political contact with North Central Eur-Asia.

I've been trying to get the archaeologists at Indiana University interested in the Brown County stones. Now I will approach the folks who teach Uralic-Altaic languages to see if they can get interested in doing something to preserve these stones.

Several of them were painted and carved on in the early 1800s by folks who thought of them as good road/direction signs.

12 posted on 06/26/2007 3:54:42 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: blam; TigerLikesRooster; SevenofNine

ping.


13 posted on 06/26/2007 3:56:10 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Maybe the migration went the other way, from America to Asia. That would blow alot of theories away.


14 posted on 06/26/2007 3:58:51 PM PDT by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam; Kathy in Alaska; All

Kathy get in here

OMGGG ROFL


15 posted on 06/26/2007 3:59:08 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: thackney

Alaska ping.


16 posted on 06/26/2007 3:59:53 PM PDT by Eaker (Free The Texas 3 - Ramos, Compean and Hernandez)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: oneamericanvoice
It's pretty easy (now that we have DNA to study) to determine the direction of settlement and migration.

Identifiable Koreans were in the Korean peninsula for a very long time. It's one of the places where civilization started ~

I think this is the first time anyone has ever pinned down the presence of people from any Old World civilization in the Americas before Leif Erickson.

This will make it easier in the future for archaeologists to gain acceptance of lesser sorts of evience (amulets, bead works, preserved leather goods, clay pots) as being as legitimately present in America as they seem to be.

17 posted on 06/26/2007 4:43:57 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

I believe that there have always been people on this continent. The notion that everyone came from somewhere else is ethnocentric and simplistic.


18 posted on 06/26/2007 5:09:54 PM PDT by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: oneamericanvoice
The problem is that in the interglacial before the present one, human beings had a difficult enough time doing anything.

There was that volcano that went off and killed almost everybody ~ ran the population down to a few thousand at most. Then, sometime halfway through the period of maximum glaciation, someone invented boats.

Hasn't been the same since.

19 posted on 06/26/2007 5:13:42 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Nothing is stagnant.


20 posted on 06/26/2007 5:24:22 PM PDT by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
Thanks Blam. Kind of a wowzo thing. The Romans used the hypercaust, which was a crawl space under the rooms of the (typically single-storey) better houses in the colder provinces. The heat was generated near the baths, then the hot gases spread out under the floors, eventually finding the chimney some distance away.
What are believed to be the world's oldest underfloor stone-lined-channel heating systems have been discovered in Alaska's Aleutian Islands in the U.S. The heating systems are remarkably similar to ondol, the traditional Korean indoor heating system. The word ondol, along with the word kimchi, is listed in the Oxford English Dictionary. The ondol heating system is widely recognized as Korean cultural property... Radiocarbon dating shows the remains are about 3,000 years old. Until now the oldest known ondol heating systems were built 2,500 years ago by the Korean people of North Okjeo in what is now Russia's Maritime Province. The Alaskan ondol are about 500 years older, and are the first ondol discovered outside the Eurasian continent.
Hey, they sailed west to reach the east. ;')

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

21 posted on 06/26/2007 10:11:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 23, 2007.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jet Jaguar
Hmm... they finally translated the Korean article into English.
22 posted on 06/27/2007 12:06:09 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
En zo Herr Blam, this 3000 year-old dating is pretty consistent with the age I think the Deer Stones are in Brown County, Indiana.

Can you point me to more about these stones in Indiana?

23 posted on 06/27/2007 4:46:18 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Tamar1973
I never had to worry about putting my bare feet on a cold floor if I had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night!

You had your own bathroom? Man, you guys must be rich! The one room apartment I once lived in off post (Tong Du Chon) had a community bathroom, outside, with no heat.

24 posted on 06/27/2007 4:50:34 AM PDT by corlorde (New Hampshire)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: blam

Ondol sounds like an extinction waiting to happen.


25 posted on 06/27/2007 5:02:03 AM PDT by BuffaloJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

And all those GI’s said the blisters on their knees came from playing basketball.


26 posted on 06/27/2007 5:05:14 AM PDT by OldEagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: John O
http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/images/special_places/stonehead.jpg

Below is a Mongolian deer stone.  There are about 500 of them.  Some of the later ones are quite advanced.  This is one of the early more primitive stones.  Notice the face:<P>

http://www.elaineling.com/photo/photo_gobi_23_large.jpg

Ancient Man Stone (Nomadic Mongolia #23)

 

27 posted on 06/27/2007 6:48:09 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: John O
Some authorities say there are 5 or 6 of these stones still left in Brown County. The one at Storey, Indiana is the most famous, but many people prefer the one at Stone Head, Indiana.

In the early days (1850s) Brown County was lightly populated (and was, in fact, the last county formed in Indiana. Today it's mostly a state park and national forest preserve). Supposedly a gravestone maker carved these heads. However, their style is dramatically different from that of the gravestones he is known to have made.

He was also hired to make some road-signs. He incorporated local materials (the stone faces) into the road-signs ~ quick job, easy money.

This is about the only part of the Midwest where gold may be found.

Stone heads are reported to have been found along trails between Nashville, Indiana and Columbus, Indiana, with some of them disintegrating in the last 50 years.

Others are near the old Church of the First Born graveyard (which has no gravestones). I have no idea where that is although distant cousins in Alaska regularly make pilgramages to it, so they probably know how to get there.

28 posted on 06/27/2007 6:54:37 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Tamar1973
I recall one of the first seasons of "This Old House".

They put radiant floor heating in the kitchen. Plastic hose was embedded in cement or floor leveler and was part of the forced hot water system. The hose was on the order of a 1/4" or so.

Been a very long while, but they may have then put down slate flooring.

29 posted on 06/27/2007 7:07:25 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Calvin Locke

Yeah, they used forced water in most of the systems even in Korea now. In newer homes, carbon monoxide poisoning is not an issue but when I was there, there were several deaths that winter of people living in older homes.


30 posted on 06/27/2007 9:14:17 AM PDT by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one BYJ movie at a time! (http://www.byj.co.kr))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: corlorde
You had your own bathroom? Man, you guys must be rich! The one room apartment I once lived in off post (Tong Du Chon) had a community bathroom, outside, with no heat.

The Language Institute I taught at when I lived in Chuncheon owned a 4-plex and each apartment had 3 bedrooms with a full bath, kitchen etc. The institute paid the heating and electric bill as well as the rent. We only had to pay for phone service. And we got paid approx. $1k a month on top of it. Not bad compensation for someone straight out of college.

31 posted on 06/27/2007 9:17:47 AM PDT by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one BYJ movie at a time! (http://www.byj.co.kr))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: blam
< link excerpt> The Chinese historical record the Books of Old Tang < /excerpt>

ROFLMAO sounds like interesting reading
32 posted on 06/27/2007 11:24:11 PM PDT by wafflehouse (When in danger, When in doubt, Run in circles, Scream and Shout!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson