Posted on 06/30/2007 4:36:50 PM PDT by 1066AD
Oswald 'had no time to fire all Kennedy bullets' By Tim Shipman in Washington, Sunday Telegraph Last Updated: 12:30am BST 01/07/2007
Lee Harvey Oswald could not have acted alone in assassinating President John F Kennedy, according to a new study by Italian weapons experts of the type of rifle Oswald used in the shootings.
The new findings will encourage conspiracy theorists In fresh tests of the Mannlicher-Carcano bolt-action weapon, supervised by the Italian army, it was found to be impossible for even an accomplished marksman to fire the shots quickly enough.
The findings will fuel continuing theories that Oswald was part of a larger conspiracy to murder the 35th American president on 22 November 1963.
The official Warren Commission inquiry into the shooting concluded the following year that Oswald was a lone gunman who fired three shots with a Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle in 8.3 seconds.
But when the Italian team test-fired the identical model of gun, they were unable to load and fire three shots in less than 19 seconds - suggesting that a second gunman must have been present in Dealey Plaza, central Dallas, that day.
Two of the bullets hit Kennedy, with the first - the so called "magic bullet", ridiculed by conspiracy theorists - also wounding the governor of Texas, John B Connally, after it had struck the president.
In a further challenge to the official conclusions, the Italian team conducted two other tests at the former Carcano factory in Terni, north of Rome, where the murder weapon was made in 1940.
They fired bullets through two large pieces of meat, in an attempt to simulate the assumed path of the magic bullet. In their test, the bullet was deformed, unlike the first bullet in the Kennedy assassination, which remained largely intact.
The second bullet is thought to have missed its target. According to the commission, the third disintegrated when it hit Kennedy's head. The new research suggests, however, that this is incompatible with the fact that Oswald was only 80 yards away, in a book depository, when he fired. The Italian tests suggest that a bullet fired from that distance would have emerged intact from Kennedy's head, implying that the third shot must instead have come from a more distant location.
The findings will encourage conspiracy theorists who hold that Oswald could not have fired three shots in time. For each shot, he would have had to push up the gun's bolt handle, pull the bolt backwards to eject the spent cartridge case and then forward to slide the next round into the chamber, before turning down the bolt handle to lock it in place.
Nearly seven out of 10 Americans believe that Kennedy was murdered as a result of a plot. Depending on which theory they back, the participants supposedly included any or all of the CIA, the Mafia, the Cubans, the FBI chief J Edgar Hoover, the military-industrial complex and Vice-President Lyndon B Johnson.
It is the second challenge in two months to the view of the Warren Commission that Oswald acted alone. In May, researchers at Texas A&M University argued that the ballistics evidence used to rule out a second gunman had been misinterpreted.
The findings will be a frustration to Vincent Bugliosi, the author of a 1,600-page book, also published in May, which claimed to put to rest all the conspiracy theories of the past 44 years.
The Italian findings will be hotly contested by those who believe that Oswald was a lone gunman - not least because they contradict firing tests previously conducted, using Oswald's actual rifle, by the FBI and the US Marines, and another study by Washington police marksmen using an identical gun.
Oswald would only have needed to reload the weapon twice in the eight seconds to get off all three shots, since the time was measured only from the moment he fired the first shot. The FBI concluded that a marksman could have fired a shot at least every 2.3 seconds.
In his book, Mr Bugliosi details how after just two or three minutes' practice with the gun in 1979, three police marksmen aiming at three targets representing Kennedy at the same distance from Oswald, got away three shots in less than eight seconds.
One marksman hit the targets twice and missed the third shot by an inch. A second shooter scored a "kill" with his second shot.
Mr Bugliosi recounts three separate ballistics tests that found that the magic bullet could have wounded Kennedy and Connally and emerged in similar condition to the real bullet. But that is unlikely to stop the Italian research fuelling another generation of conspiracy writers.
You’re right. Conservatives tend not to understand the left. I’d be a rich man if I had a buck for every time I heard one say: “I can’t understand why ...” or “I can’t believe they’re going this ...” or “I’m shocked ...”
No conservative should be surprised by anything these people do anymore. Until we stop being surprised, we won’t be as effective as we need to be.
I knew an attorney years ago who was a Tulane Grad who's first job out of law school was as an assistant DA in Garrison's office before and during Garrison's JFK "trial." His opinion (and according to him the near unanimous opinion of the people who actually worked in that office) was that Jim Garrison was a totally crooked, (even by New Orleans' low standards), two-bit hustler.
As I have said before, Mr Johnson, we are not going to change each others minds on this. ~yawn~
You claim only 23 frames elapsed time between the first and second shots.
According to the Report it takes 2.8 seconds to cycle Oswald's rifle. At a camera speed of 18.8 frames per second, 23 frames equals less than 1.4 second. - Thus, - Oswald could not have fired both shots.
Why didnt Oswald shoot when he had a torso and head shot opportunity instead of straight away when he had only the head shot?
“I’m referring to a compensation of aim, “
Still impossible to do on a moving object - a stationary target where you use kentucky windage, sure but not in this case.
I believe you meant feat.
fete noun, plural fetes, verb, fet·ed, fet·ing.
–noun
1. a day of celebration; holiday: The Fourth of July is a great American fete.
2. a festive celebration or entertainment: The ball was the greatest fete of the season.
3. a religious feast or festival: a fete lasting several days in honor of a saint.
–verb (used with object)
4. to entertain at or honor with a fete: to fete a visiting celebrity.
Maybe Oswald was a lone gunman. I just find it hard to believe. I’m a pretty good shot myself. I qualified expert marksman in the military too, every time I had to qualify. What Oswald would have had to have done would have been kind of like shooting a duck in mid air with a bolt action rifle, hitting it twice while firing in rapid sucesseion with almost no time to re-aim. Maybe he did that, but it my opinion it is more likely that there was at least one other shooter. Of course my opinions are not always right and I am certainly no expert on the events that transpired on the day of the Kennedy asasination.
Oswald chambered a fourth unfired round. There were three empty cartidges found on the floor of the “sniper’s nest”. The two guys eating lunch on the fifth floor not only heard the three shots but they also heard the three empties hitting the floor through the open windows. Dust and debris fell down on them from the fifth floor ceiling with each shot.
Nice but Connelly’s lapel flips out at frame 224.
Now for the pictures....http://www.assassinationresearch.com
There are blow ups of frame by frame of the entire Zapruder film, including the sprocket section.
From what I could tell, his view coming down the street was obscured by the tops of the trees. He shot through the gaps. Also he was positioned by the window, and he could swing the barrel to the right pretty much through a 90 degree angle. Anyway, I think I would have done the same.
Depends when it was made. I was in production for almost 50 years.
Oswald's was made in 1940. Italy was not in the war, or had only just entered. Either way peacetime quality control was still in effect. Later standards declined.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the quality of those rifles. I've never fired one but I've had the opportunity to hold and inspect and shuck the action on a couple of 'em in good shape.
MM (in TX)
A doctor wrote that Connelly didn’t react until his perforated lung collapsed. The list of events that I posted is more suited to the actual events such as the lapel flying outward. People’s reaction can take seconds and due to the film evidence we have it broken down to 1/18 of a second.
Simply put, we don’t know how long it took for the little girl to react or Zapruder to shake his camera. The physical evidence such as the lapel and Kennedy’s final wound are more accurate interpretations.
But anyway, good job on the Zapruder frames. I learned about the little girl from you. When asked later, she said she had stopped running when she heard and saw the man shooting from the window.
I have never fired one either, but according to people who have, they were an accurate, albeit not to be confused with higher priced rifles that were built to take a lot of abuse such as the M1 Garand or Springfield. It's draw back was long term reliability under battlefield conditions, not accuracy.
My understanding is back then they were a perfectly fine deer rifle for people who wanted to shoot at deer a couple of days a year and not spend a lot of money to do it.
From the distances Oswald was shooting --- between 40 and 90 yards -- damn near any weapon would have worked just as well and the shot he took a few months earlier at Gen Walker from over 100 yards with the same rifle showed that it was more than accurate 'enough.' Walker was one damn lucky SOB that Oswald didn't take his head off when the round he fired grazed the window frame.
As I attempted to say before, people focus on the price these rifles were selling at then. The price had nothing to do with how accurate or serviceable they were. The price only reflects how saturated the market was with WWII military surplus equipment from all over the world.
For gun collecters, it was the golden age.
Here’s another version. As you can see, Zapruder shook his camera 158-160. That gives the 8.3 seconds to frame 313. 3.6 seconds between the first and second shot. It also shows that the little girl is starting to look to her right.
First shot at 158-160
Second shot at 224
Third shot at 313
Frame by Frame breakdown of the Zapruder Film
With some various theories that have been presented.
Compiled by I. Marc Carlson.
This page was last edited on 30 March 2003
Frame # Event
140 The car turns on to Elm street.
145 [Some people interpret the first shot as having been fired at this point]
151-153 [Some people interpret the first shot as having been fired at this point]
154-155 Kennedy turns his head very rapidly from left to right.
158-160 Zapruder jiggled his camera. [Numerous “Ear-witnesses” recall the first shot being about this point, when the car has just turned the corner onto Elm Street]
160 The little girl who is running next to the Car begins to turn to her right.
162 The little girl has stopped running. Kennedy stops waving. Connally turns his head sharply to the right.
??? James Tague is struck by a piece of flying cement while standing under the end of the triple by-pass. [along a straight line, through the oak tree and the School Book Depository window. A mark in the cement along that line revealed traces of lead and antimony, suggesting that the round had lost its copper jacket — which can happen when striking a tree branch]
167-210 Foliage blocks a School Book Depository sniper’s view of Kennedy (with a small break at 186), according to reconstructions (2.3 seconds). Branches had given partial visual cover for some time before that.
187 (1.5 seconds after frame 160) The little girl has stopped and is staring at the SBD. Kennedy starts waving again. Mrs. Kennedy is looking around.
189-197 Zapruder jiggles his camera again.
188-191(190) [House Select Committee suggests that this is the point at which Kennedy was hit. This is the traditionally held time for that the second shot hit him. Many people believe that this shot was a front shot from a smaller weapon than the 6.5 mm Carcano]
200 No one in the car appears hurt. Kennedy is waving to the crowd with his right hand.
200-224 Zapruder’s view of Kennedy is blocked by a highway sign. Even during this time, Kennedy’s hand can still be seen over the sign.
202 Phillip Willis’s photograph showing Zapruder was shot here.
207 Witness Howard Brennan turns abruptly to the right.
210 As Kennedy becomes visible from the foliage, this is the first opportunity that an SBD sniper would have a chance to fire.
220-228 Zapruder jiggles his camera.
223-224 Probable time that Kennedy was first hit. [At this point, the positions of the two men, Kennedy’s leaning slightly forward, and the much taller Connally twisted to the right, with his hand in front of him, holding his hat at lower chest level, make it possible for a single bullet to enter Kennedy’s back, pass through his lower throat, into Connally’s right back, glance downward off a rib, exit under his right nipple, and enter his left thigh coming to rest, drained of energy, just below the skin.]
224 The right front lapel on Connally’s suit flips up as the bullet passed through his chest.
225 Kennedy becomes visible to Zapruder again, his right arm is resting on the edge of the car, having just relaxed from waving. Connally shows no obvious effects.
226 Kennedy is clearly raising his right arm. Conally becomes rigid, and changed his expression [The House Select Committee suggests that this is the point at which Connally was hit based on his facial features and body position.]
227 Kennedy’s arm jerks off the car, clearly reacting to the throat shot [This is a clear case of “Thorburn’s Position”, as his body reacts to the spinal damage caused by the hydrostatic shock of the bullet passing so close to the spine in 223-4. This is supported by the fact that his arms are locked into position until 313] (1/10-2/10 of a second after 223-4) Connally’s hat (held in his right hand) begins to move in a reflex response to his radius bone being broken)
228 Kennedy’s torso pitches forward suddenly (to 231)
229 Connally’s hat drops to its original position.
229-233 Mrs. Connally claimed her husband was shot about this time.
231-234 Connally told the Warren Commission that this was when he remembered being hit.
231 Kennedy stops moving forward.
234 Connally later determines it was at this point. [This is likely when Connally tried to take his next regular breath, the lung punctured only 2/3s of a second before collapsed, and making him feel like he’d just been hit; or, he IS hit at this point and his lung collapses at this point].
235 Connally’s mouth opens wide and his body begins to react to the collapsed lung, drawing him down and to the right.
255 Estimated point at which Ike Altgens’ picture is shot [showing what appears to be Oswald in the SBD doorway, and an open window in the second floor Dal-Tex broom closet. It also appears to show the crack in the windshield left by bullet fragments (see 337) ].
309?- Zapruder jiggles his camera.
312 Kennedy’s head pitches forward suddenly.
313 The 161.2 grain slug, travelling at 2,100 feet per second smacks into the right occipital area of Kennedy’s head, shattering the occipital bone and generating tremendous force in the flesh of the brain. The upper right side of his head explodes, blowing brains and bit of bone in an expanding pink cloud. The pieces of the parietal and temporal sections of his skull remain attached by skin, and so fall back into place, creating the appearance of an intact skull. His head lurches back to the left (8.0-8.4 seconds after the first shot) as his body stiffens suddenly from the massive neurological damage, and possibly aggravated by his back brace, or, if you wish, studies have also shown that the head flying back and to the left is also possible because of the matter ejected by the right side of his head exploding in a simple Newtonian happening. The film clearly shows the back of the head to be clean.
by 320 The two officers riding (to the left?) behind the car are splattered with bood and brains, after driving up to and passing through the cloud blown out of the President. (allegedly, a section of Kennedy’s right occipital bone was found by Billy Harper, some 35 feet to the left and rear of the impact point
321 Kennedy is slumped to his left, the right parietal area of his skull completely exposed.
337 Kennedy is sliding into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, much of the flesh and bone of his skull hanging hinged by the skin. Two large bullet fragments were found in the car (44.6 and 21.0 grains = 65.6 grains) after they dented some chrome and damaged the windshield, and a “pristine” (Magic) bullet at the hospital (158.6 grains). The average weight of a 6.5 mm Carcano bullet is 161.2 grains. The six fragments removed from Connally would have weighed not more than 1.5 grains all together.
Sources:
Groden, Robert J. The Killing of a President. New York: Penguin Books, 1993.
Posner, Gerald. Case Closed, Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assasination of JFK. New York: Random House, 1993
Tague has his own website and book; apparently he is in the camp that believes there was a shot from the grassy knoll from the reviews of his book on amazon.
Of course, besides Kennedy and Connolly, he was the other victim of the gunfire at Dealey Plaza.
I always thought the umbrella man part, was more of a fringe element in this, but to see the picture of the UM and his companion then sit down on the curb, while you see other people in the plaza hitting the deck in the aftermath of the gunfire is a bit astonishing and as the writer of the link points out, the umbrella man is in the zapruder film with accompanying pictures on the webpage. Of course, the author of the webpage adds some extreme theory about what the umbrella could have done in addition; but altogether, it's a good essay.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.