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Surveillance Cameras Win Broad Support
ABC News ^ | July 29, 2007 | MICHELLE LIRTZMAN

Posted on 07/29/2007 5:40:02 PM PDT by ECM

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To: ECM

Hmmmmm....ABC “news” ...me thinks somebody over at Walt Disney thinks it a better idea.....


41 posted on 07/29/2007 6:59:01 PM PDT by mo
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To: Brilliant
The constitution was meant to protect the people FROM government. So many now want the government to protect them from the constitution.

As the old saying goes those who give up liberty for safety will soon have neither

42 posted on 07/29/2007 6:59:30 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: ECM

I don’t believe this poll.


43 posted on 07/29/2007 7:02:18 PM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.)
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To: Rudder
OK, was anyone here asked that question for a poll? Does anyone here know anyone who was asked that question?

Polls of this type usually survey less than a thousand people. Out of the 300M in America, it's pretty unlikely one of those

44 posted on 07/29/2007 7:04:54 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: Rudder
Try that again.

OK, was anyone here asked that question for a poll? Does anyone here know anyone who was asked that question?

Polls of this type usually survey less than a thousand people out of the 300M in America. It's pretty unlikely one of those under a thousand people is handing out on this thread.

45 posted on 07/29/2007 7:08:32 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: montanajoe
The Constitution doesn't really have anything to say about this.

Sticking a camera on the side of a building does not constitute an unreasonable search and seizure.

I understand people's discomfort, but as somebody has pointed out, not every bad idea is unconstitutional.

Unless you think the Supremes should get out is ouija board and find some emanations and penumbras to make the Constitution say what you think it should say. This approach has had so many bad results I think it should be avoided even in a good cause.

Personally, I think it's time for an amendment addressing privacy and surveillance issues.

46 posted on 07/29/2007 7:13:27 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: ExGeeEye
I don't get the "expectation of privacy" in public.

Well lets see. Your name and address is public isn't it? Your occupation is public. The property you own is public information. Marital status, children, parents, etc. that is all public. Any legal problems? That is all public. Where you went to school, your friends, neighbors again that is all public.

So if it is all public and you have nothing to hide, why don't you share that information with us? We are all friendly here and couldn't possibly do anything with that public information, could we?

Why do I suspect that you aren't going to share that public information with us? What do you have to hide? I think that you might be growing marijuana in your house. I think that we should investigate you. How would you like a nice little no knock warrant served about 5:30 Am tomorrow morning?

Are you sure that you have nothing that you want to hide from us?

47 posted on 07/29/2007 7:15:07 PM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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To: Sherman Logan

I disagree. As I say the purpose of the constitution is to limit the power of government...the right of the people to be left alone.

This is not a issue of finding a new right to privacy and freedom from government intrusion its one of the basic principles on which the constitution is founded.


48 posted on 07/29/2007 7:24:34 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: LeGrande
The public stops at my property boundries, and in some instances, my vehicle.

Been sitting at the house when the feds showed up at 9:00 a.m. to serve papers. Talk about a weak serving...They asked for ***. Said that *** wasn't here. So they threw the papers down at the doorstep and walked away. We did pick up the papers...and we knew the whole of the all the papers. At that time it's time to get a lawyer. They acted as they interpeted the law accordingly, and there in, can lay the problem, if an idiot is in charge.

If you don't think that privacy isn't an issue, try violating a EULA in a software download. Some things such as intellectual property, real propertys threats, personal property are covered, and you may want the press, rather than the law, to be your friend. Act accordingly.
49 posted on 07/29/2007 7:31:52 PM PDT by Issaquahking (Duncan Hunter for president!)
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To: ECM

This is really bad. It is the beginning of the end of freedom. But it’s legal.

How is it any different than if a cop sits at the corner and watches. Legal.

Think of the nosey neighbor who watches who comes to your house. Legal.

What is so dangerous (and unstoppable) is how easy it is to keep all this information, forever, and combine it cheaply with other public data to rob you of your privacy.


50 posted on 07/29/2007 7:34:48 PM PDT by live+let_live
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To: Sherman Logan
How many people do you know, etc., etc? Add that to all my friends and all the other FReepers' friends and you've exceeded the number of contacts required to have at least one hit in the sample group.

Any way, I was curious about the representative nature of the sample. I mean I could get a Newark, N.J. phone book and have my 70% poll goal done by quitting time same day. Or, I could sample the rural Midwest and it would give an entirely different picture---e.g., like firearm issues.

I think 70% is extremely high for the nation in general and that the sample had an urban and suburban skew.

51 posted on 07/29/2007 7:37:28 PM PDT by Rudder
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To: montanajoe

I disagree.

The Constitution says what it says, not what we think it ought to say. It does not express general principles, which the judges then apply to new situations as they see fit.

The Constitution very explicitly states what powers government has been given and quite a number of things it is not permitted to do. You won’t find surveillance of public places in either category.

It constantly amazes me how conservatives are constitutional literalists until an issue arises that they feel strongly about, but which is just not in the document. Then they begin finding broad principles in there, like “the right of the people to be left alone.”

Can’t you see that any broad principle must be interpreted and applied, inevitably by the branch of government least accountable to the people? Do you really want five people wearing black robes and with life tenure to decide exactly what the broad principles mean, and inevitably discovering new ones whenever the urge strikes them? Haven’t we gone a good deal too far down that road already?

Why not use the mechanism for addressing new situations that the Founders installed right in the Constitution?


52 posted on 07/29/2007 7:38:16 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: live+let_live
What is so dangerous (and unstoppable) is how easy it is to keep all this information, forever, and combine it cheaply with other public data to rob you of your privacy.

Exactly. You get into a situation where things like these cameras, that can read license plates now, and eventually faces (they can now, but they can be easily fooled at this point), and it's quite easy to build up profiles of where everybody was that day, where they go, what kind of activities they engage in, etc.. People never think about how it can all be tied together, they want to focus on the singular issues and not the big picture.
53 posted on 07/29/2007 7:43:36 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: saganite
We already have a system in place to deal with your question ~ it's called the Bill of Rights.

The deal here involves "public places" ~ streets, sidewalks, parks, and so forth.

"Private places" are controlled by private parties who provide whatever surveillance measures they need. Check out Wal-Mart.

54 posted on 07/29/2007 7:43:38 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: ECM

Typical bullsh*t polling.If 71% like the idea then one would think somebody we know would have been polled.Anybody?


55 posted on 07/29/2007 7:45:35 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Defeat liberalism, its the right thing to do for America.)
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To: LeGrande
You still have to get a warrant, and there has to be probable cause. Your suspicions are not adequate. You'll have to show us your own stash first for us to believe you evern now what MJ is supposed to look like.

If you come across now we'll put in a good word with the DA.

56 posted on 07/29/2007 7:46:08 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sherman Logan
We basically have a philosophical disagreement over the roll of government. I view it as a necessary evil that given the opportunity will suck every freedom from the citizens it can.

I don't trust government to do the right thing. I don't trust the courts, I don’t trust elected officials, I don't trust law enforcement, I don’t trust anybody....

In my view thats the philosophical basis on which the country was founded.

57 posted on 07/29/2007 7:48:43 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: Issaquahking
4th Amendment applies to what you do in public too.

The cops can't just stop and frisk.

On the other hand, your public presence creates your public image. The eye is passive. It can't turn on or off that which appears before it. A police officer can look right at you on the street and, lo and behold, there you are.

There is no element of evesdropping involved in one individual watching another in a public place. Thinking there is one is comprable to claiming that free speech involves the right to not be offended and we all know that's BS don't we (I hope).

These camera systems are not going to be doing anything more than a cop might do if he or she were on the scene ~ and there is that word "the scene" ~ that which the eye takes in whether it wants to or not.

58 posted on 07/29/2007 7:56:49 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: live+let_live

Government employees live this every day they work for the government. They learn how to deal with it and so can you.


59 posted on 07/29/2007 7:58:45 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: montanajoe

The Constitution does not prohibit surveilance cameras in public.


60 posted on 07/29/2007 8:01:26 PM PDT by Brilliant
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