Romney Can't Ignore Questions About Mormonism

RealClearPolitics ^ | 8/20/2007 | Mark Davis

[mojito]

Even though Mitt Romney can't seem to dislodge Rudy Giuliani atop the national GOP polls, and can't even draw as much poll support as Fred Thompson, who isn't even running yet, there is an understandable anticipatory buzz about him.

He may well be the eventual choice of his party if the Thompson phenomenon fizzles or if Giuliani supporters simply grow weary of navigating the obstacles posed by his past and his politics.

In an appearance in Texas last week, I saw Romney energize a crowd with just the kind of speech a GOP nominee should give-- strong and unapologetic on the war, upbeat and resolute about the future. This is a typical Romney performance, and it earns him speculation that he has nowhere to go but up.

This is wholly deserved. But the issue of his religion, which some say has been overplayed, has in fact not been addressed with nearly the thoroughness and honesty that will be necessary to satisfy some in the Republican voting base.

It has not been addressed well by the candidate, and it has not been handled honestly by pundits. Until it is, it lurks as a torpedo that could spell the doom of his promising candidacy.

[gondramB]

>>And you have no problem with Mormonism declaring Christianity a failure and only through Joseph Smith’s restoration can we come into full fellowship and spend eternity with God the father who is a separate personage than Jesus Christ?

Interesting.....<<

See, this is how we get distracted and divided. I think you just attacked me for being tolerant of Mormons.

And since I think Mormonism is weird,I can only imagine what actual Mormons must think of a thread like this.

The Bible is just really clear.

>>”For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”<<

When we place additional requirements and set ourselves as judges of the faith of others we are stepping into the role of God. That is wrong.

[colorcountry]

But faith in whom and what, that is the question.

Only God knows where you place your faith. I am here only to point out the inaccuracies in the claims of Mormonism as I am told to do in the Bible.

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

[gondramB]

>>And you have no problem with Mormonism declaring Christianity a failure and only through Joseph Smith’s restoration can we come into full fellowship and spend eternity with God the father who is a separate personage than Jesus Christ?

Interesting.....<<

Do Muslims claim redemption through faith in Jesus Christ and ask forgiveness in His name?

[gondramB]

>>Only God knows where you place your faith. I am here only to point out the inaccuracies in the claims of Mormonism as I am told to do in the Bible.<<

I absolutely think there are inaccuracies. I would go so far as to say weird inaccuracies - like believing people’s skin is made dark by being evil. That’s a way to justify racism, not scripture.

But people are saying that Mormons are not Christian even they accept Jesus as the Messiah and ask forgiveness in his name. That is a wrong thing for a Christian to say.

[Rameumptom]

>>>Men who selflessly give their lives to Christ, spend years learning his Gospel and spread God’s message to thousands are welcomed with open arms by the Lord.

Works?

I am not trying to denigrate the Christianity of your relatives but just pointing out the fact that being "learned" does not make one more or less Christian.

God knows my heart. He knows whether I am a Christian, follower, disciple or Saint. I find you presumptious that you think you can come between my Savior and I by claiming falsely that I don't belive in him.

Since we are on the subject on being learned? How much did your Father get paid for his years of service? Or your other relatives. Did they get PhD's then work in another line? Your mom has published books. What about? The implication is theology. IOW, in all this learning and publishing what is the money motive. I am not denigrating anyone's Chirstianity here but when you push someone as an expert on it we should be able to analyze what their motivation is. I find those who have a stake (monetary or otherwise) to be especially critical of the competition from the LDS church.

[colorcountry]

When we place additional requirements and set ourselves as judges of the faith of others we are stepping into the role of God. That is wrong.

It is not me who is placing additional requirements. I believe we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. I do not judge my brother, but I will not allow a heresy against my God to go unchallenged. I was Mormon, and just as one poster so aptly compared me to a reformed alcoholic on this very thread...I am trying to expose the dangers of the type of intoxicant that took me far away from worshiping Jesus Christ. That intoxicant was Mormonism and its teachings that exaltation can only be EARNED and COVENANTED by performing ORDINANCES and doing required WORKS and PENNANCE.

These are not Christian things....it doesn't mean that there are not some that follow Mormonism do not have saving faith. You are correct, I am not the judge of that.

[colorcountry]

I find those who have a stake (monetary or otherwise) to be especially critical of the competition from the LDS church.

Since this is/was part of your Temple Ceremony, I have no doubt that you find those who's life's work is dedicated to Theology and God, to have Satanic ulterior motives.

I wonder what xzins thinks of you denigrating those wonderful individuals who make a living by serving God. Do you have anything to add xzins?

[colorcountry]

You do understand gondramB, that mormons do not believe the atonement saves you from all sin? So if they do not place faith in the saving grace of Jesus Christ through the atonement. If they believe Jesus is NOT God, but one of three Gods of this planet, and that there are countless Gods. Then it is okay by you, and I am wrong in confronting those issues head-on? Do you truly believe I have no right to say that the teachings of Mormonism are unlike those of Christianity?

I have been both. I am telling you....the beliefs even in Christ are very very outside what Christianity teaches. Even Moslems believe in Christ, even the demons believe. Are we not to judge them?

[gondramB]

>>. I do not judge my brother, but I will not allow a heresy against my God to go unchallenged. I was Mormon, and just as one poster so aptly compared me to a reformed alcoholic on this very thread...I am trying to expose the dangers of the type of intoxicant that took me far away from worshiping Jesus Christ. That intoxicant was Mormonism and its teachings that exaltation can only be EARNED and COVENANTED by performing ORDINANCES and doing required WORKS and PENNANCE.<<

I do respect the distinctions you are making. And the faith/works issue effects Christianity in general. Mormons also seem to have a cult of personality thing going with their founder... this is also not unknown in Protestant culture.

Charlie Daniels perhaps put it best.

“Jesus walked onthe water, and I know that its true,
but sometimes I think that preacher man would like to do a little walkin’ too.”

One of my goals is to be no more insensitive than South Park - they raked Mormonism over the coals for their origins and some of their beliefs but in the end it becomes clear that the Mormons are good, weird, Christians.

Here is the closing of the episode... it so summarized how I came to feel

>>Cartman: Uh oh, the jilted lover returns.

Gary: Listen, I just wanted to let you know you don’t have to worry about me tryin’ to be your friend anymore.

Stan: I don’t?

Gary: Look, maybe us Mormons do believe in crazy stories that make absolutely no sense, and maybe Joseph Smith did make it all up, but I have a great life. and a great family, and I have the Book of Mormon to thank for that. The truth is, I don’t care if Joseph Smith made it all up, because what the church teaches now is loving your family, being nice and helping people. And even though people in this town might think that’s stupid, I still choose to believe in it. All I ever did was try to be your friend, Stan, but you’re so high and mighty you couldn’t look past my religion and just be my friend back. You’ve got a lot of growing up to do, buddy. Suck my balls. [turns around and walks off. All four boys just look at him in wonder, even Cartman.]

Cartman: Damn, that kid is cool, huh?<<

[colorcountry]

I know where you are coming from. My brother is an LDS Bishop. He is very cool! One of the best men I know...and one of the most reputable, family oriented, conscientious, kind, loving and conservative men I have ever known. Not only that but he is good looking, married to one woman, and a wonderful father.

I still wouldn’t vote for him for President. Mormonism lives in secrecy, they are taught to obscure the truth, they believe in us against them...they believe that our government will fail.

No matter how good Mormons are (and they are often very good, almost Pharisaical) I won’t be voting for one of them for POTUS, especially one who is a flipping RINO.

[gondramB]

And I respect your right to vote or not vote for whomever you choose on whatever grounds you choose.

But when the topic comes up I will express my opinion.

With neither of us being Romney supporters we are two good people to have a rational discussion about this.

Also, I can feel pain that either caused or came from you leaving that denomination. I am very sorry for your but i cannot help being a bit greatful that you kept your faith. So many people lose their faith when they lose their church because they seem them as inseparable. I am so glad you rose above that and now desire to help others.

[Swordfished]

Davis is completely wrong on this.

I heard part of his show this morning and he played a clip of Romney basically saying, ‘we didn’t ask JFK if he really believed the communion bread was the actual body of Christ - we didn’t ask him to respond to chemical analysis of the bread.’ This was a great point, yet it must have went right over Davis’s head.

This whole religious doctrine/mythology thing is so juvenile, so petty, and so kooky, it really makes me want to turn completely agnostic. You have people who believe in magic mocking other people who believe in magic, yet they fail to see the irony.

‘Holier than thou’ is the perfect term for these jerks.

There are two kinds of religious people:

1. open-minded religious people
2. close-minded religious people

Whenever you find yourself drifting towards Christian Sharia, ask yourself, ‘Do I more resemble a member of the Taliban or an American Pilgrim looking for religious freedom?”

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I never claimed to speak for Christ and to say that you have not received His salvation.

Learned?

I’m talking about sacrifice.

My father-in-law and mother in law spent years living in the desolate mid-west going door-to-door, gathering people who wished to hold Bible study in their own homes once a week. These small meetings would grow. Soon they would be filling an empty classroom at a local school on Sunday, and then later, a pastor would take my father-in-law’s place and help this small church grow into an active church in the community.

My father-in-law would move on to where the Mission Board would next send him. My father-in-law helped plant dozens of churches in the upper midwest, going where the church sent him.

He later became a Director of Missions for Montana, South Dakota and Wyoming.

My father-in-law even traveled to Germany for two years in a row where he could serve as interim pastor. He saw this as a way of serving God.

My brother-in-law worked as a pastor and a chaplain in Helena, Montana.

My mother in law has contributed to Christian learning through books and numerous articles that she has written for Southern Baptist publishers, as well as faithfully helping her husband perform his duties. One of her books was written about the challenges that preacher’s kids face. And the other was about the history of Baptists in Montana. She has served the church for many years as a missionary and as a help-mate to her husband.

My brother-in-law and pastor DID NOT work in “another line”. My brother-in-law is a pastor of a church in Mississippi. And my pastor retired last year after fifty years of serving as a pastor and other functions within the church.

My pastor and brother-in-law did NOT get their doctorates for their own posterity. They did this as they were called to do to benefit themselves in their walk with the Lord.

The ONLY motivation that each and every one of these Christians has had is to further their walk with Christ and to help spread God’s message as He has called them to do.

I am NOT extolling these Christians based upon their works earning them salvation. That goes against the Southern Baptist church.

ALL I am saying is that they truly HAVE given of themselves, they continually try to spread God’s message... they have never seen their walks with Christ as an ends to a mean, a way to “store up heavenly rewards”.

Each and every one of them is humble in their faith and they constantly say that any grace or joys that they have received in this world have been given by God.

None of them have ever even hinted that they believe God will reward them for any works. They believe that they are saved through grace of Christ’s work on the Cross. They know that it is only their faith in Christ, and any other’s faith in Christ that is sufficient. Works have nothing to do with salvation.

[samtheman]

Here. Let me fix that link for you.

A Mormon Church Translator for 15 Years and Her High Councilman Husband

[ASA Vet]

SNFF placemarker

[colorcountry]

Oh, I was an atheist for 20 years. I got involved with every weirdness that came along...astrology, wicca, new age, occult.

Twenty years of emptiness, then the Savior reached down and saved me. I really struggle to make sure I don’t attack Mormons personally. At times it is very difficult. I have been called a hater, bitter, bigot, sinful, weak and apostate...and yet I know that it doesn’t do any good to respond in kind (even though I slip occasionally - I hope I am forgiven).

I truly love Mormons. They are my people. It hurts a great deal that they reject me and my message, but I can’t stop, I can’t quit telling what I’ve discovered.

[samtheman]

There are all kinds of things wrong with Mormom doctrine and certainly their is weirdness in its founding.

But they worship the God of Abraham, ask forgiveness in the name of his Son Jesus Christ, love their neighbors and do good works in His name.

The way I look at it, Mormon's are like Trekkies who don't want to stop playing the fantasy of speaking Klingon, but are nevertheless good people in all their dealings with their fellow man.

[samtheman]

I’m a Christian from a mixed marriage - Southern Baptist and Primitive Baptist.

I don't mean to be rude, but that made me laugh. I hope you meant it to be humorous (the "mixed marriage" phrasing), even if true.

[gondramB]

>>I truly love Mormons. They are my people. It hurts a great deal that they reject me and my message, but I can’t stop, I can’t quit telling what I’ve discovered.<,

How a person responds when they are hurt says a lot about them.

Some take it out on others propagating the hurt.
Some internalize the hurt, blaming themselves for “making other people hurt them.

The most mature response is not want others to ever have pain like that but to recognize their free will to make mistakes if they choose. So it took 20 years. Many take a lifetime and never get where you are. I wish you the best.

[samtheman]

Even Moslems believe in Christ, even the demons believe

Yellow flag! Comparing Mormons to Muslims is a severe transgression of common sense.

Ask yourself this, everyone, before you get too far off the deep end:

Who is going to fly the next airplane into a building?

1. Southern Baptist
2. Primitive Baptist
3. Roman Catholic
4. Greek Orthodox
5. Member of the LDS
6. Member of the RLDS
7. None of the above