Romney Can't Ignore Questions About Mormonism

RealClearPolitics ^ | 8/20/2007 | Mark Davis

[mojito]

Even though Mitt Romney can't seem to dislodge Rudy Giuliani atop the national GOP polls, and can't even draw as much poll support as Fred Thompson, who isn't even running yet, there is an understandable anticipatory buzz about him.

He may well be the eventual choice of his party if the Thompson phenomenon fizzles or if Giuliani supporters simply grow weary of navigating the obstacles posed by his past and his politics.

In an appearance in Texas last week, I saw Romney energize a crowd with just the kind of speech a GOP nominee should give-- strong and unapologetic on the war, upbeat and resolute about the future. This is a typical Romney performance, and it earns him speculation that he has nowhere to go but up.

This is wholly deserved. But the issue of his religion, which some say has been overplayed, has in fact not been addressed with nearly the thoroughness and honesty that will be necessary to satisfy some in the Republican voting base.

It has not been addressed well by the candidate, and it has not been handled honestly by pundits. Until it is, it lurks as a torpedo that could spell the doom of his promising candidacy.

[Colofornian]

But they worship the God of Abraham...

OK this is a very good pt when you're talking about, say, a Jewish candidate. But it's obvious you haven't read the Pearl of Great Price, the Book of Abraham (LDS "scripture") where the word "gods" is used throughout that book. So if you're saying "the God" and Joseph Smith said that Abraham did nothing but go on about "gods" plural, which "God" of all those "gods" are you talking about?

[HiTech RedNeck]

I’d be curious how he would (or would not) carry on the legacy of “It’s A Religion Of Peace”. What’s the Mormon outlook on Islam?

[Colofornian]

Yellow flag! Comparing Mormons to Muslims is a severe transgression of common sense. Ask yourself this, everyone, before you get too far off the deep end: Who is going to fly the next airplane into a building?

Can you answer me a series of questions that are just really the same question asked different ways, please?

Why do you assume that Muslims are one monolithic block but Mormons aren't?

Just as there are Mormons who distance themselves from fundamentalist polygamous Mormons, why don't you allow the same distancing for Muslims? (Aren't there Muslim sub-groups who distance themselves from terrorist activities?)

(My main point here is not to come to the defense of Muslims. My main point is to say that the equivalency of your argument would be for me to say, "Yellow flag! Comparing Muslims to Mormons is a severe transgression of common sense. Ask yourself this, everyone...Who in this country (not in some foreign land) is more likely to have plural wives: 1. Southern Baptist. 2. Primitive Baptist. 3. RC. 4. Greek Orthodox. 5. U.S. Muslim. 6. Black Muslim. 7. None of the above")

Just because I can build a case that fundamentalist Mormons engage in polygamy in this country, and U.S. Muslims don't, doesn't mean that my "common sense" concern is to focus on all of these mainstream Mormons heading to the altar in a plural manner. Polygamy on U.S. turf isn't fully representative of all Mormons just like terrorism isn't fully representative of every Muslim group.

[Cincinna]

Mormonism is a huge problem with Evangelical Christians.

They have an opinion about Mormonism that cannot be changed.

Many people do not know very much about Mormonism, but what they do know is not positive.

It is not a significant factor for me, personally, but I think it brings into question the electability of a Mormon, regardless of his abilitiues and qualifications.

OTOH, it doesn’t seem to hurt Harry Reid, and it didn’t hurt Mitt’s father, successful, longtime Michigan Governor, George Romney. But times were very different.

[Cincinna]

In many Evangelical Christian denominations, Mormonism is considered a cult, and a Satanic cult to boot.

It is very far out of the mainstream of American religious beliefs. I don’t know how that could be overcome.

[Colofornian]

If the Word of God is found only in the scripture, what was it before it was written down?

Straw man. Who said among historic Christianity that the Word of God is found only in the Scripture?

Did not Jesus, the Living Word, Himself ask? (slightly paraphrased): "Ye search the Scriptures, for ye think that in them ye find eternal life, but they testify unto me."

Doesn't John 1 say that "the Word became flesh" and lived among us? The Living Word of God--the very Son of God--has lived forever from eternity past--well before any reed was ever used for writing upon and well before any human was even created to speak.

Go back to Hebrews 1 & you'll find that the most important latter-day revelation is Jesus Himself (Heb. 1:1-2). ["BUT in these last days he has spoken to us by His Son..."]

He is still the head of His church (which was never wiped out by Satan). He has no need for an undersecretary of prophecy. He still has a voice; He still speaks; and He doesn't need to funnel it through just one man.

"I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him...Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 2:26-27; 4:1)

[Colofornian]

If the Word of God is found only in the scripture, what was it before it was written down?

One more irony about LDS sourcing of "Scripture."

On the one hand, LDS usually harp on Christians for narrowing their source of Scripture to distant historical voices.

It's like they say, "You have such a narrow understanding of how God relays His word to mankind."

Yet, in reality, which religious group has restricted the artery of the parochial LDS "scriptures" to just one mere, meak solo man? {LDS!}

Who was the source of the Pearl of Great Price (since nobody else even has heard of "Reformed Egyptian," let alone think that these Egyptian funeral documents are "translatable" akin to Joe's take)? {Answer: One man, Joe Smith.}

Who was the source of just about all the material in the Doctrine & Covenants LDS "scripture" despite dozens of decades of multiple "prophets"? Just one man is responsible for about 99.x% of that content. {The same as above, JoeSmith}

Who's responsible for the "Inspired Version" of the Bible, known as the JST? {Just one man, JoeSmith}

Since we have no gold-plate verification, who's responsible for the hat dictations known as the Book of Mormon? {Well, besides all the Biblical King James Language he borrowed--as I'm sure Central or South Americans didn't speak King James Language...and neither did 1830 North Americans...the answer is again, JoeSmith}

Now compare that to the Bible. How many different authors again did God speak through? (Over 40) How many people does the anointing of the Holy Spirit speak through today? (All true Christians; since they only as ONE BODY become HIS temple...For LDS, all JoeSmith did was impersonalize the Holy Ghost by calling Him an "it" in D&C 130 along with impersonalizing the temple by reducing the God-built temple--us--to a mere building).

[Colofornian]

I notice not a whole lot of direct feedback to this article itself posted--just some of the concepts it brings up.

From the article: Let's just say he didn't accept my invitation down that path. "I really don't think it's productive for me to say 'let me tell you about this doctrine or that doctrine,'" he explained. "I'm not a spokesman for my church."

OK. Every LDS is told to give a testimony of His church & prophet. Yet what does Romney give as his testimony?

"If anyone wants to know what I believe," he told me, "they can look at my family and me and our kids and make an assessment of that. But you know, if they want to learn more about doctrine, they can always contact the church."

(Ya hear that, LDS? From now on, when folks ask about your faith, just refer them to the church for the oficial, pure clarification).

[Colofornian]

Article Excerpt:

But most Americans have not examined what Mormons believe, and when they do, some of them are going to recoil. It is a lot to swallow...There are a number of beliefs in Mormonism which directly contradict mainstream Christianity, and which challenge objective history. The question is: how many people will learn of these things and run in the direction of other candidates? If the answer is not many, Romney can survive. If it is more than a few, he is cooked. But one thing is for certain: he can not duck the nuts and bolts of his faith forever...I tiptoed into Mormonism and whether he needs to start talking more about it...what Mormons believe and how those beliefs might strike those considering his candidacy. I could not have been more mistaken. In a spirit of genuine admiration and even support, I ventured into my thesis that LDS beliefs are going to strike some voters as fairly peculiar, and that only he can make them comfortable. Through a clenched smile that I could hear over the phone, I learned in no uncertain terms that he has no intention of following my suggestion. That gives me enormous doubt as to his viability...

So, a "recoil" to come followed by a "boil?" Bottom-line: Candidate "viability" suffers.

But in the spirit of Mitt's latest comments that the pro-life "issue" needs to be tossed back to the states to determine a pre-born child's "viability," I guess we'll have to conclude the same status about Mitt: He's no more more "viable" to a given state until such states say He is...and if more say He's not, then the "pro-choice" states win out.

[samtheman]

I never said anything about Muslims being a monolithic block. Those are your words, not mine. What I said was, who is most LIKELY to be a terrorist, a Muslim or a Mormon. The answer is Muslim, with the odds in the range of upwards of a billion to one, or more. To claim otherwise is, well, for lack of a better word, chloroformian.

[samtheman]

Again, I support Fred over Romney, in fact, over everyone in the field.

And again, Romney is NOT running as pastor-in-chief and is NOT running on a platform to convert you or anyone else to Mormonism. How much time, as Governor of Mass, did he spend promoting the Mormon religion?

You’re worried about the wrong thing. Instead of worrying about whose biblical references are more pure, you should be worrying about who’s going to nuke America, and who best might be able to prevent that nuking.

[Elsie]

And at whom is the mudslinging initially aimed -- and who slings it first?

 

Good question...

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself ^adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I ^bsaw two ^cPersonages, whose brightness and ^dglory defy all description, ^estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My ^fBeloved ^gSon. Hear Him!

  18 My object in going to ^ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all ^awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those ^bprofessors were all ^ccorrupt; that: “they ^ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ^ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the ^fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the ^gpower thereof.”

  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself ^alying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, ^bmother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

What’s the Mormon outlook on Islam?

Simple:

Them folks have a long dead Prophet; while WE have a Living Prophet®!

--MormonDude

[Elsie]

They have an opinion about Mormonism that cannot be changed.

Not quite... They have a history of FACTS about Mormonism that cannot be changed; only spun.

[Turret Gunner A20]

re: # 275 We all know that Jesus didn't die for disgusting, hypocritical, arrogant twerps who constitute a pathetic lot, now don't we?

It appears to me that you are not a Christian -- or at least don't know what He died for. Christians know that he went to the cross for "...disgusting, hypocritical, arrogant twerps who try to impress us with their Christian purity, but who are so completely obsessed with proving that they are superior to the LDS folks that they have forgotten almost everything Jesus was talking about and died for" as well as those who lacked those less than desireable characteristics. Even for smartmouths like you, who seem to come down solidly on the side of such mouthy trash. Maybe if they rose up to whatever higher ground you have, since I'm sure your post had nothing to do impress[ing] us with your Christian purity & thereby proving that you're superior to these twerp[y], pathethic folks, then maybe, just maybe, Jesus' blood wouldn't have to cover them, eh?

By the way, your all but incomprehensible sarcasm isn't very cutting. In fact it's duller than dishwater.

Better luck next time.

[Elsie]

(Ya hear that, LDS? From now on, when folks ask about your faith, just refer them to the church for the oficial, pure clarification).

Well, I'll try to help out at times, by posting excerpts from one or more of their Books of Scripture.

Be forewarned though: it may get a bit confusing.

[soccermom]

“Not quite... They have a history of FACTS about Mormonism that cannot be changed; only spun.” And this is relevant to the presidency how????

[Turret Gunner A20]

RE: # 277 So, say, Fred Thompson declares in September. And in his declaration speech he says he's runnin' cause it's a good "career move" on his way to becoming a god. And the press asks him to elaborate. And he says, "Well, I'm going to run my own planet one day; and runnin' a country is a good prepatory stepping stone toward that objective." But that comment would only draw many follow-up MSM questions & queries & speculations. Columnists would wonder, "What kind of power trip is Fred on?" Now ya know. What's interesting is that many LDS (and Mitt is likely one of them) believe they can become a god. And yet we have no MSM fury. We have no MSM follow-up queries or even initial questions along those lines. And that's why your very statement doesn't address the full context of "religion." If a POTUS Candidate believes his ultimate eventual bully pulpit will be a throne on his own planet, ya better believe that it's a relevant issue

Why should the MSM bother? You have done as good, or a better, job than they usually do of asinine twisting, speculating and downright viscious puking.

You may join the "pathetic lot" -- you are fully qualified for membership.

[Elsie]

http://www.salamandersociety.com/blacksheep/

If you are an LDS member; don’t click the link.

[Saundra Duffy]

Meanwhile, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is helping the people of Peru following the devastating earthquake. Please read:

Church Responds Immediately to Peru QuakeAugust 17, 2007 — News from the Church

Print
The Church is working closely with government leaders and other emergency response organizations to identify and meet urgent needs in Peru after a devastating 8.0-magnitude earthquake struck just off the coast on Wednesday evening, August 15, 2007.

The quake has claimed the lives of at least 510, and left more than 1,500 people injured. Seven Church members have been confirmed dead and more than 14 members are reported injured. All missionaries are reported safe. More than 70 member homes are among the thousands of homes destroyed by the earthquake. No Church buildings have been destroyed, but many have received damage.

Under the direction of the South America West Area Presidency, Church members immediately responded to those in need. Limited food was provided to four meetinghouses that are temporarily housing 600 to 700 Church members, relatives, and neighbors. The Area Presidency members have gone to the affected areas to provide support.

Small truckloads of food were sent to each meetinghouse location on Thursday, August 16, 2007 at 6 a.m. The Church is also loading a 747 cargo plane at the Salt Lake International Airport with urgently needed items. The plane will fly directly into a military airport in the affected area. Items being sent include medical supplies, surgical instruments, family food boxes, hygiene kits, and tarps.

Working with Peru’s Civil Defense Agency, the Church also provided 10,000 blankets and other emergency supplies such as tents and basic camping equipment on Thursday.

The hardest hit areas were the cities of Ica and Pisco. Authorities in Pisco estimated that 70 percent of the city had been destroyed.

Rescue teams trying to get to Pisco, Ica, and other rural towns southwest of the capital, Lima, found roads broken up and power knocked out. Hospitals report the numbers of casualties are overwhelming.

The earthquake was centered 25 miles west-northwest of Chincha Alta, 90 miles south-southeast of Lima, and about 25 miles below the earth’s surface. The major quake prompted a tsunami warning, which was eventually canceled.

The earthquake was felt nearly 100 miles from its epicenter. Dozens of severe aftershocks continued into Thursday; most of them measured well above 5.0 and the strongest measured 6.3.

Visit Newsroom (http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=37671eac38474110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=9ae4111 for additional information.

This is Saundra now: I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and I love my Church.