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FairTax supporters show up at Iowa Democratic debate
Americans For Fair Taxation ^
| August 22, 2007
Posted on 08/22/2007 4:51:55 PM PDT by Man50D
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1
posted on
08/22/2007 4:51:56 PM PDT
by
Man50D
To: ancient_geezer; Taxman; pigdog; Principled; EternalVigilance; PhilWill; kevkrom; n-tres-ted; ...
2
posted on
08/22/2007 4:52:28 PM PDT
by
Man50D
(Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
To: Man50D
Good news. This country desperately needs a new tax plan. Any candidate who does not support the fair-tax cannot possibly be a conservative; and therefore, doesn’t deserve our support.
3
posted on
08/22/2007 4:58:07 PM PDT
by
Arcy
To: Arcy
I am a FairTax supporter, but I would not make it a litmus test for conservative/liberal. Dick Armey and Steve Forbes were for a Flat tax, which would be a huge improvement over the current system, however not as good as the FairTax.
To: Arcy
Seeing the libs pretend to like this speaks to the power the voters have over them.
The only thing most pols value over the power they wield after being elected is being re-elected.
5
posted on
08/22/2007 5:14:43 PM PDT
by
Principled
(Vaporize the "Divide and Conquer" taxes - Have everyone pay the same marginal rate!. NRST!)
To: GeorgefromGeorgia
As long as you are forced to file private information (1040) you are a slave. The Fair Tax is the only way out.
To: Man50D
7
posted on
08/22/2007 5:43:28 PM PDT
by
groanup
(Limited government is the answer. What's the question?)
To: Goreknowshowtocheat
As long as you are forced to file private information (1040) you are a slave. The Fair Tax is the only way out.
H.R.25
Fair Tax Act of 2005 (Introduced in House)
`SEC. 903. WAGES TO BE REPORTED TO SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION.
`(a) In General- Employers shall submit such information to the Social Security Administration as is required by the Social Security Administration to calculate Social Security benefits under title II of the Social Security Act, including wages paid, in a form prescribed by the Secretary. A copy of the employer submission to the Social Security Administration relating to each employee shall be provided to each employee by the employer.
`(b) Wages- For purposes of this section, the term `wages' means all cash remuneration for employment (including tips to an employee by third parties provided that the employer or employee maintains records documenting such tips) including self-employment income; except that such term shall not include--
`(1) any insurance benefits received (including death benefits);
`(2) pension or annuity benefits received;
`(3) tips received by an employee over $5,000 per year; and
`(4) benefits received under a government entitlement program (including Social Security benefits and unemployment compensation benefits).
`(c) Self-Employment Income- For purposes of subsection (b), the term `self-employment income' means gross payments received for taxable property or services minus the sum of--
`(1) gross payments made for taxable property or services (without regard to whether tax was paid pursuant to section 101 on such taxable property or services), and
`(2) wages paid by the self-employed person to employees of the self-employed person.
8
posted on
08/22/2007 5:53:25 PM PDT
by
lewislynn
(What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
To: Goreknowshowtocheat
If the principle implicit in your statement is...”if someone has knowledge about my personal behavior it enslaves me to them.” then may we presume that irrespective of how much the so-called FairTax takes, you will not feel enslaved, because you believe it involves no personal knowledge about you (except your buying habits, how much you spend, where you spend it, when you spend it)?
To: Dutchboy88
You you saying they will not allow cash in the Fair Tax system? Interesting.
To: Goreknowshowtocheat
Are you saying........sorry can’t type well
To: lewislynn
Here’s an interesting question: what would the government’s response be if an employer failed to report such information and the employee did not object? All it would mean is that the employee would not accumulate SS benefits, which would save the government that future liability.
For example, if the FairTax were adopted, and I as a small business owner did not report any income to the SSA, would the government care? Regardless of what system of taxation we have, I think I have better odds of winning the lottery than ever collecting anything from Social Security, and I don’t even play the lottery. I certainly don’t want senior citizen welfare, nor do I base any financial planning on receiving any of it. I can’t imagine the government auditing anyone to force them to become eligible for a potential future transfer payment; I certainly wouldn’t worry about filling out whatever forms they may develop for such a purpose.
I realize from other threads that you are opposed to such reforms. But don’t you think that under the FairTax, SS would become essentially a voluntary system, since there are no longer taxes supposedly collected specifically for SS?
12
posted on
08/22/2007 6:57:08 PM PDT
by
Turbopilot
(iumop ap!sdn w,I 'aw dlaH)
To: Man50D
Mike Gravel already supports the Fair Tax, and he’s the only Democratic Presidential candidate to do so.
To: Principled
Seeing the libs pretend to like this speaks to the power the voters have over them.
The only thing most pols value over the power they wield after being elected is being re-elected.
It illustrates the saying politicians don't lead , they follow. Put enough pressure on them and they will eventually realize they either support what their constituents support or lose their jobs.
14
posted on
08/22/2007 7:11:01 PM PDT
by
Man50D
(Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
To: Turbopilot
What if's are fun aren't they...The Fairtax is full of them.
But dont you think that under the FairTax, SS would become essentially a voluntary system, since there are no longer taxes supposedly collected specifically for SS?
Fair Tax Act of 2005 (Introduced in House)
`SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.
`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services.
`(1) FOR 2007- In the calendar year 2007, the rate of tax is 23 percent of the gross payments for the taxable property or service.
`(2) FOR YEARS AFTER 2007- For years after the calendar year 2007, the rate of tax is the combined Federal tax rate percentage (as defined in paragraph (3)) of the gross payments for the taxable property or service.
`(3) COMBINED FEDERAL TAX RATE PERCENTAGE- The combined Federal tax rate percentage is the sum of--
`(A) the general revenue rate (as defined in paragraph (4), and
`(B) the old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate, and
`(C) the hospital insurance rate.
`(4) GENERAL REVENUE RATE- The general revenue rate shall be 14.91 percent.
----------
`(d) Old-Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance Rate- The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 12.4 percent tax on the Social Security wage base (including self-employment income) as determined in accordance with chapter 21 of the Internal Revenue Code most recently in effect prior to the enactment of this Act. The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology and announced at least 6 months prior to the beginning of the Calendar year for which it applies.
`(e) Hospital Insurance Rate- The hospital insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The hospital insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 2.9 percent tax on the Medicare wage base (including self-employment income) as determined in accordance with chapter 21 of the Internal Revenue Code most recently in effect prior to the enactment of this Act. The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology and announced at least 6 months prior to the beginning of the calendar year for which it applies.
`(f) Assistance- The Secretary shall provide such technical assistance as the Social Security Administration shall require to determine the old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate and the hospital insurance rate.
Dream on...That's the real reason your earnings have to be reported.
15
posted on
08/22/2007 7:21:34 PM PDT
by
lewislynn
(What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
To: Turbopilot
I realize from other threads that you are opposed to such reforms.
I'm opposed to the Fairtax, not reform. And one of the reasons is because of giving bureaucrats at SS the power to tax without a debate or a vote or oversight.
16
posted on
08/22/2007 7:26:22 PM PDT
by
lewislynn
(What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
To: lewislynn
Interesting. So the total tax rate collected is based on what would formerly be wages subject to SS tax? I can see that being something that could (and should) be modified in the future.
That being said, any individual who failed to report wages for purposes of SS calculations would only be forfeiting their own “benefits” and I doubt that the government would come down on anyone just for the purpose of adding that individual’s income to the aggregate of the millions of people whose wages determine the “SS portion” of the FairTax, especially considering that the nonreporters would be ineligible to collect any SS payments.
Having said that, I acknowledge the possibility that you have found an issue with the FairTax that could use some adjustment. But it seems to me that rather than recommending a tweak to make the FairTax even fairer, you want to throw out the entire idea and stick with a system that right now, every day, punishes people for earning money, or even attempting to do so. Playing with the various income tax rates in the current system is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Why are you so opposed to fundamental reform just because there are a few issues that could possibly be adjusted to better serve the people?
On a side note, I don’t want to look like I didn’t respond to your second post. I hate it when people post multiple responses to a single post, because it makes it difficult to respond to each of their points and without doing so it looks like one has no response to subsequent posts. But when you say that you are not opposed to reform, I think you have an obligation to state just which reforms you support, and why those reforms are superior to the reforms already out on the table.
17
posted on
08/22/2007 8:02:31 PM PDT
by
Turbopilot
(iumop ap!sdn w,I 'aw dlaH)
To: Turbopilot
I think you have an obligation to state just which reforms you support,
Maybe the right one hasn't come along yet but I know it isn't the Fairtax... Funny thing is not only do I not care what you think but I also don't feel obligated at all. Nor do I think you have an obligation to respond to any of my posts to you...even multiple ones.
18
posted on
08/22/2007 8:19:45 PM PDT
by
lewislynn
(What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
To: Turbopilot
That being said, any individual who failed to report wages for purposes of SS calculations would only be forfeiting their own benefits and I doubt that the government would come down on anyone just for the purpose of adding that individuals income to the aggregate of the millions of people whose wages determine the SS portion of the FairTax, especially considering that the nonreporters would be ineligible to collect any SS payments.
There's no logic in your wishful thinking. You can apologize for the flaws or play all the games you want but the law isn't asking you or your employer to report your earnings it's telling you to.
That's the beauty of the Fairtax. You can pick and choose the parts you want to comply with?
19
posted on
08/22/2007 8:27:21 PM PDT
by
lewislynn
(What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
To: Goreknowshowtocheat
20
posted on
08/22/2007 8:29:41 PM PDT
by
unixfox
(The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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