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Vatican book on Templars' demise
BBC ^ | October 5, 2007

Posted on 10/05/2007 1:44:55 PM PDT by NYer

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To: rock_lobsta

Unless you’re a Kennedy looking for an annulment.


101 posted on 10/05/2007 9:57:56 PM PDT by spyone
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To: Cvengr
"I wonder what occultic Masonic rituals will be in store for us all?????"

Pretty tame, I would imagine. All I'm going to do is remove the rust from my sword and polish it up a little. Maybe give it a finer edge.

102 posted on 10/05/2007 10:01:20 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: ConservativeMind

I would suspect that the church left this in limbo for 700 years...because of fear of the Templars. I don’t think this is a crowd that you can sit at ease with if you have done so much to hurt them. The Templars...really never went away and are active throughout the globe today...quietly. I suspect that the pope...from Germany...has seen some of their work in a positive light...and decided enough was enough. It is a sign of admitting that the church was wrong in some things it did.


103 posted on 10/05/2007 10:02:08 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: ReignOfError

The Gnurrs come from the voodvork out!

But you need one of Papa Schimmelhorn’s Gnurrpipes to summon them....

(Silly sf by Reginald Bretnor)


104 posted on 10/05/2007 10:04:57 PM PDT by skepsel
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To: NYer

Shame academia won’t exonerate them anyhow

Can’t exonerate any white Christians from that era who killed brownish Muslims....(and others ...yes yes I know before the chorus chimes in)


105 posted on 10/05/2007 10:06:10 PM PDT by wardaddy (Behind the lines in Vichy Nashville)
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To: BearCub

actually ....just my opinion but the Constitution makes no mention of Jefferson’s famous “wall” but rather bans the Establishment of a State Religion.

A concept Europe has always known all too well and what happened to the Templars more addresses that than the Wall of Separation which is a platitude....or is it canard?

I prefer the way we were for 160 years before Everson when the Wall concept was unheard of.

We still imprison bad clergy and corrupt ministers in our own way, it’s just harder to convict by jury than by King’s edict.

Btw....the King of France could not have persecuted the Templars without the Vatican’s approval...no way....revisionist thought to the contrary is wishful thinking.


106 posted on 10/05/2007 10:15:13 PM PDT by wardaddy (Behind the lines in Vichy Nashville)
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To: uglybiker

107 posted on 10/05/2007 10:15:39 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: ConservativeMind
"Why did the Catholic church allow a falsehood to exist for 700 years?"

Oh come on! It's not like this is the ONLY falsehood they've allowed to exist for centuries....

Flame away :-)

108 posted on 10/05/2007 10:27:05 PM PDT by Lloyd227 (and may God bless Oriana Fallaci)
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To: Eastbound

Have patience for me, brother. I plan to enter the Order after my time in the East.


109 posted on 10/05/2007 10:30:14 PM PDT by uglybiker (relaxing in a luxuriant cloud of quality, aromatic, pre-owned tobacco essence)
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To: NYer

alas...

Vatican paper set to clear Knights Templar
The Telegraph | 05/10/2007 | Malcolm Moore
Posted on 10/05/2007 4:44:50 AM EDT by Daffynition
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1906886/posts


110 posted on 10/05/2007 10:31:44 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, October 5, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: NYer

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks NYer.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

The quarterly FReepathon is underway.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


111 posted on 10/05/2007 10:37:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, October 5, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: ConservativeMind
Why did the Catholic church allow a falsehood to exist for 700 years?

That's what they always do. It is only recently that they acknowledged that Galelelio was correct, the earth does indeed orbit around the sun and not the other way around. Self important men (?) in dresses.

112 posted on 10/05/2007 10:48:54 PM PDT by Octar
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To: Octar

interesting that if you know your bible, you didn’t have to wait for Galelelio to know a bit about the nature of the planets, and what the earth rests on - keep in mind that other religions have the earth resting on the back of great turtles, or other such nonsense.

It clearly states in the bible that the earth is round (not flat), and hangs in space on nothing. This is from the old testament, written > 1500 years before Christ.

It does NOT say however, if the earth or sun revolve around each other.

This is why (when speaking from the bible), it is best to NOT extend beliefs beyond what the text actually SAYS.

There’s a lot of information in the bible that could not have been produced by human means - this is one example, there are others.


113 posted on 10/05/2007 11:03:52 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: Eastbound

I keep striking up the theme song to the TV series, “The Saint” and expect Simon Templar to make his appearance.


114 posted on 10/05/2007 11:17:03 PM PDT by Cvengr (The violence of evil is met with the violence of righteousness, justice, love and grace.)
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Comment #115 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

most probably a pretty accurate statement.


116 posted on 10/06/2007 3:36:59 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: uglybiker

Here! LOL. I have about six demolays crashed at my house, as I write this. They are home from college.

One of them is the state master counselor.

heheheh.


117 posted on 10/06/2007 5:30:10 AM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: sasportas
Image hosted by Photobucket.com No doubt, there will be many Masons posting on this claiming their hero has been vindicated. Trouble is, you’ll never know they are Masons. Most of them won’t identify themselves as such.

why would someone claim vindication yet deny membership???

make no sense to me...

PastMaster Chode

118 posted on 10/06/2007 5:45:08 AM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: uglybiker
Congratulations and Best wishes for a smooth and productive year, ub. You might want to consider doing both concurrently. I'm sure you are capable.

Best -- Sir Dave

119 posted on 10/06/2007 6:00:19 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Savage Beast

The first Grand Lodge was formed in London, in 1717.


120 posted on 10/06/2007 6:29:14 AM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: ConservativeMind
"Why did the Catholic church allow a falsehood to exist for 700 years?"

Sandy Berger, after hearing of the incident, swore he was no where near the Vatican, and offered his explanation for the probable cause as, "It was just sloppy filing on the part of a distracted Bishop."

121 posted on 10/06/2007 6:43:15 AM PDT by NordP (If illegal alien = "undocumented immigrant" then drug dealer = "unlicenced pharmacist")
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To: Cvengr

> I wonder what occultic Masonic rituals will be in store for us all?????

Ooooo, I can hardly *wait*!


122 posted on 10/06/2007 6:56:17 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghill mi do dhuine. Fg am bealach.)
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To: sasportas

> Trouble is, you’ll never know they are Masons. Most of them won’t identify themselves as such.

Not so. Any Mason, if asked, will more than likely identify themselves as such. Some will even volunteer that information, even if not asked.

For example, I am a Freemason.


123 posted on 10/06/2007 7:00:58 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghill mi do dhuine. Fg am bealach.)
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To: uglybiker

Thanks for the ping. There is an alarum in the west...


124 posted on 10/06/2007 7:28:02 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghill mi do dhuine. Fg am bealach.)
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To: bert
>The vatican exterminated the Templars. The book will be whitewash

They should hire Marvel
and release the new book as
a graphic novel.
125 posted on 10/06/2007 7:34:26 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: Eastbound
>"remove the rust from my sword and polish it up a little. Maybe give it a finer edge"

Is that secret code
for a weekend of sex at
the Holiday Inn?
126 posted on 10/06/2007 7:36:14 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: theFIRMbss

Holiday Inn? Gimme a break.


127 posted on 10/06/2007 7:39:56 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: vladimir998

When the templars were liquidated did the pope excommunicate him because of it?


128 posted on 10/06/2007 7:43:42 AM PDT by ColdSteelTalon
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To: uglybiker
I think you missed my point. I was saying that one should always be cautious of creating a connection just because of inspiration. There was no doubt that many of the degrees found inspiration in various heraldic orders, this doesn’t constitute actual connection. I am with you, I don’t think any body can claim connection to something that old and so far removed from the creation of that body.
129 posted on 10/06/2007 8:01:02 AM PDT by mnehring ("Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!"- Jim Robinson, Sept, 30, 2007)
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To: uglybiker; Cvengr; mnehrling

This old Mason is up for the occultic ‘nubile virgins’ rituals.

More ale for the archers!

Bring on the girls!! >:-}


130 posted on 10/06/2007 8:36:29 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: blackie

Pssst - you have to do that stuff in a cave, in the middle of the night...


131 posted on 10/06/2007 9:09:39 AM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: ELS

Thanks. I thought of it long before but St. Francis appeared to me and asked me to be a Franciscan. I’m not allowed to join another fraternity. I’ll always keep them in my prayers though. ;-)


132 posted on 10/06/2007 9:19:51 AM PDT by rbosque ("To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: patton

This old curmudgeon will be sound asleep at that time of night.

I guess my romp with nubile virgins is off, then. :-(


133 posted on 10/06/2007 9:27:40 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: ConservativeMind

In earlier stories, these parchments were misfiled and only discovered 6 years ago.

Does somebody really suppose that there was a responsiblity for oral tradition to pass this down over the last 700 years?


134 posted on 10/06/2007 9:31:39 AM PDT by G Larry (HILLARY CARE = DYING IN LINE!)
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To: NYer

Both Clement V and Philip the Fair of France died shortly after the burnings of DeMolay and his companion knights at Paris in 1314, at which it was reported that DeMolay “summoned them with his dying breath”. Perhaps justice did not take 700 years to accomplish?


135 posted on 10/06/2007 9:37:38 AM PDT by Dionysius (Jingoism is no vice.)
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To: mnehrling

Without resorting into any conspiracy theories, the Templars left some lasting legacies:
1) Their system for allowing pilgrims to safely move funds around on journeys to the Holy Land laid some of the foundations of the modern banking system.
2) The cultural exchange with the near east helped introduce new religious ideas into Europe, planting some of the seeds of the eventual Reformation.
3) Their example of an institution independent of church hierarchy promoted ideas that eventually came to fruition in the Enlightenment.

A lot of time separates us, but the Templars were generally a force for freedom and rationalism in their time. Perhaps a bit of the freedom we enjoy today is partly due to their sacrifices.


136 posted on 10/06/2007 9:53:12 AM PDT by CaptainMorgantown
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To: Rennes Templar

Huh? You say “These teachings of Christ” are “Karma and reincarnation, the indwelling Christ potential in all souls, and the evolving of the soul over many lifetimes”?

When have those EVER been held by Christ? Do you believe these were there in the beginning but were suppressed?


137 posted on 10/06/2007 10:22:59 AM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: ColdSteelTalon

You wrote:

“When the templars were liquidated did the pope excommunicate him because of it?”

The Templars were never liquidated. Those who recanted their confessions were executed as relapsed heretics, idolators, etc. By all accounts, Pope Clement believed the charges against the Templars when they were arrested. Exactly what he believed when the relative handful were executed several years later, I don’t know, but I would find it hard to believe he would allow Philip to executed them if he truly believed they had never done anything wrong in the first place.

Also, it should be pointed out that, although Philip is routinely denounced today for what he did to the Templars, no one has ever found any hard evidence that he was plotting against them or deserved excommunication for his actions. The simple fact is we don’t know enough about the motivations of the people involved in the Templar trials. Everyone assumes Philip did what he did in order to get their wealth, but if I remember correctly, he could never hold on to it by law anyway. This new book, if what I have read about it in these two or three little articles is any indication, will NOT resolve the mystery surrounding the Templar trial, but will instead only deepen it.


138 posted on 10/06/2007 11:04:08 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: ConservativeMind
>When have those EVER been held by Christ?

Ssssh! We live in times
defined by Homer Simpson!
(Or maybe Ashlee . . .)
139 posted on 10/06/2007 11:04:59 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: vladimir998
Those who recanted their confessions were executed as relapsed heretics, idolators, etc. By all accounts, Pope Clement believed the charges against the Templars when they were arrested.

You and I both know that confessions were tortured out of people then by both the state and the Catholic Church. Lets not act like the Vatican was some innocent bystander in this. The Church especially then could have went to the extreme to protect its own order.

140 posted on 10/06/2007 2:28:11 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon
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To: NYer
The church never burned anyone at the stake (or any where else). Those convicted of heresy were turned over to civil authorities for punishment.
141 posted on 10/06/2007 2:33:10 PM PDT by truemiester (If the U.S. should fail, a veil of darkness will come over the Earth for a thousand years)
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To: ColdSteelTalon

You wrote:

“You and I both know that confessions were tortured out of people then by both the state and the Catholic Church. Lets not act like the Vatican was some innocent bystander in this.”

You don’t know the facts:

1) The first confession came BEFORE the arrest and BEFORE any torture.

2) The Templars were arrested and tortured without the pope being informed and he was not happy about it - as I already mentioned.

3) This happened in France, not in the Vatican, and at that time there was effectively no Vatican. The pope was living in Avignon.

“The Church especially then could have went to the extreme to protect its own order.”

Again, you don’t know the facts.

1) The Templars were a sovereign order of knighthood. I am sure some popes felt like the Templars were the Church’s “own” but that is a gross over-simplification to say the least.

2) In case you missed it, I already mentioned that King Philip had already kidnapped and abused a previous pope - Boniface VIII. The idea that a new pope, living in fear of French arms (and residing across the river from French territory unlike the kidnapped pope who had been far away near Rome and WAS STILL KIDNAPPED anyway) could go “to the extreme to protect its own order” when that pope already believed the order was guilty simply makes no sense.

Far too often people who know little about the history of the Church ascribe almost omnipotent status to the Church during the Middle Ages. If the pope or the Church was omnipotent then there would have been no kidnapping of Boniface VIII by King Philip.


142 posted on 10/06/2007 3:23:05 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: ConservativeMind

Yes he held them and yes they were suppressed. That’s why religion and the world is in such a mess.


143 posted on 10/07/2007 6:50:00 AM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Jim Noble; NYer

“Even THESE bishops?”

Was that necessary? There are RINO’s in the Republican party just as there are CINO’s in the Vatican. If Americans suffer betrayal by our own citizens, then realize Jesus suffered His own betrayal first—from Judas, and from ALL who commit sin.


144 posted on 10/07/2007 11:02:03 AM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" for the Unborn Child)
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To: Savage Beast; NYer
The restoration of the Order is not the argument. The argument is the ancient fight that Satan thrusts upon the Holy Trinity—sin. What separates the obedience of the ancient and original Order of the Knight Templar from those who’ve hijacked the name is obedience to the Sacraments.

The original Knights loved and honored the Sacraments. They were first holy in nature and then military by trade. Today’s un- (or rather), anti-Catholic Masons are wholly against the Sacraments and all Teachings of Christ. They wax of military heroics past, but refuse the discipline of our True Champion, the One Who Dies on the Cross for our shameful sin. What might shock our modern public is not the a possible restoration of the Order, but what the Pope may command the order to do such as be non-military, non-violent, and ever devoted to the Sacraments. The challenge may be so high: obedience, celibacy, poverty, loyalty to the Pope, devotion to the Sacraments (like daily Reconciliation, Daily Mass, etc.) that the anti-Catholic Masons may play yet another word game to falsely trap restored Knights into legal battle and real persecution. The restored Knights will be murdered again in the same manner that Jesus told St Peter that he was going to Rome to be Crucified again.

145 posted on 10/07/2007 11:20:23 AM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" for the Unborn Child)
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To: Rennes Templar

What uncovered books can help support your premise?


146 posted on 10/07/2007 11:20:58 AM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: ConservativeMind

http://www.logos.com/products/details/2114


147 posted on 10/07/2007 3:05:37 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: NYer

My suggestion is,

A Issue a formal apology.

B. Start a Recruiting Drive

W


148 posted on 10/07/2007 4:31:37 PM PDT by WLR (Armed Staff on School Campus. Build the Fence, Iran delenda est)
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To: pepsionice

I agree.


149 posted on 10/07/2007 5:10:53 PM PDT by fatima (Baby alert,Baby Ava arrived 6-29-07 at 3 PM-she is 10 pounds:))
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To: uglybiker

Here’s one to be counted...

Kentucky
York Rite Freemason


150 posted on 10/08/2007 5:07:53 AM PDT by BlackjackPershing ("The great object is that every man be armed." Patrick Henry)
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