Skip to comments.Vatican book on Templars' demise
Posted on 10/05/2007 1:44:55 PM PDT by NYer
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Unless you’re a Kennedy looking for an annulment.
Pretty tame, I would imagine. All I'm going to do is remove the rust from my sword and polish it up a little. Maybe give it a finer edge.
I would suspect that the church left this in limbo for 700 years...because of fear of the Templars. I don’t think this is a crowd that you can sit at ease with if you have done so much to hurt them. The Templars...really never went away and are active throughout the globe today...quietly. I suspect that the pope...from Germany...has seen some of their work in a positive light...and decided enough was enough. It is a sign of admitting that the church was wrong in some things it did.
The Gnurrs come from the voodvork out!
But you need one of Papa Schimmelhorn’s Gnurrpipes to summon them....
(Silly sf by Reginald Bretnor)
Shame academia won’t exonerate them anyhow
Can’t exonerate any white Christians from that era who killed brownish Muslims....(and others ...yes yes I know before the chorus chimes in)
actually ....just my opinion but the Constitution makes no mention of Jefferson’s famous “wall” but rather bans the Establishment of a State Religion.
A concept Europe has always known all too well and what happened to the Templars more addresses that than the Wall of Separation which is a platitude....or is it canard?
I prefer the way we were for 160 years before Everson when the Wall concept was unheard of.
We still imprison bad clergy and corrupt ministers in our own way, it’s just harder to convict by jury than by King’s edict.
Btw....the King of France could not have persecuted the Templars without the Vatican’s approval...no way....revisionist thought to the contrary is wishful thinking.
Oh come on! It's not like this is the ONLY falsehood they've allowed to exist for centuries....
Flame away :-)
Have patience for me, brother. I plan to enter the Order after my time in the East.
Vatican paper set to clear Knights Templar
The Telegraph | 05/10/2007 | Malcolm Moore
Posted on 10/05/2007 4:44:50 AM EDT by Daffynition
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That's what they always do. It is only recently that they acknowledged that Galelelio was correct, the earth does indeed orbit around the sun and not the other way around. Self important men (?) in dresses.
interesting that if you know your bible, you didn’t have to wait for Galelelio to know a bit about the nature of the planets, and what the earth rests on - keep in mind that other religions have the earth resting on the back of great turtles, or other such nonsense.
It clearly states in the bible that the earth is round (not flat), and hangs in space on nothing. This is from the old testament, written > 1500 years before Christ.
It does NOT say however, if the earth or sun revolve around each other.
This is why (when speaking from the bible), it is best to NOT extend beliefs beyond what the text actually SAYS.
There’s a lot of information in the bible that could not have been produced by human means - this is one example, there are others.
I keep striking up the theme song to the TV series, “The Saint” and expect Simon Templar to make his appearance.
most probably a pretty accurate statement.
Here! LOL. I have about six demolays crashed at my house, as I write this. They are home from college.
One of them is the state master counselor.
why would someone claim vindication yet deny membership???
make no sense to me...
Best -- Sir Dave
The first Grand Lodge was formed in London, in 1717.
Sandy Berger, after hearing of the incident, swore he was no where near the Vatican, and offered his explanation for the probable cause as, "It was just sloppy filing on the part of a distracted Bishop."
> I wonder what occultic Masonic rituals will be in store for us all?????
Ooooo, I can hardly *wait*!
> Trouble is, youll never know they are Masons. Most of them wont identify themselves as such.
Not so. Any Mason, if asked, will more than likely identify themselves as such. Some will even volunteer that information, even if not asked.
For example, I am a Freemason.
Thanks for the ping. There is an alarum in the west...
Holiday Inn? Gimme a break.
When the templars were liquidated did the pope excommunicate him because of it?
This old Mason is up for the occultic ‘nubile virgins’ rituals.
More ale for the archers!
Bring on the girls!! >:-}
Pssst - you have to do that stuff in a cave, in the middle of the night...
Thanks. I thought of it long before but St. Francis appeared to me and asked me to be a Franciscan. I’m not allowed to join another fraternity. I’ll always keep them in my prayers though. ;-)
This old curmudgeon will be sound asleep at that time of night.
I guess my romp with nubile virgins is off, then. :-(
In earlier stories, these parchments were misfiled and only discovered 6 years ago.
Does somebody really suppose that there was a responsiblity for oral tradition to pass this down over the last 700 years?
Both Clement V and Philip the Fair of France died shortly after the burnings of DeMolay and his companion knights at Paris in 1314, at which it was reported that DeMolay “summoned them with his dying breath”. Perhaps justice did not take 700 years to accomplish?
Without resorting into any conspiracy theories, the Templars left some lasting legacies:
1) Their system for allowing pilgrims to safely move funds around on journeys to the Holy Land laid some of the foundations of the modern banking system.
2) The cultural exchange with the near east helped introduce new religious ideas into Europe, planting some of the seeds of the eventual Reformation.
3) Their example of an institution independent of church hierarchy promoted ideas that eventually came to fruition in the Enlightenment.
A lot of time separates us, but the Templars were generally a force for freedom and rationalism in their time. Perhaps a bit of the freedom we enjoy today is partly due to their sacrifices.
Huh? You say “These teachings of Christ” are “Karma and reincarnation, the indwelling Christ potential in all souls, and the evolving of the soul over many lifetimes”?
When have those EVER been held by Christ? Do you believe these were there in the beginning but were suppressed?
“When the templars were liquidated did the pope excommunicate him because of it?”
The Templars were never liquidated. Those who recanted their confessions were executed as relapsed heretics, idolators, etc. By all accounts, Pope Clement believed the charges against the Templars when they were arrested. Exactly what he believed when the relative handful were executed several years later, I don’t know, but I would find it hard to believe he would allow Philip to executed them if he truly believed they had never done anything wrong in the first place.
Also, it should be pointed out that, although Philip is routinely denounced today for what he did to the Templars, no one has ever found any hard evidence that he was plotting against them or deserved excommunication for his actions. The simple fact is we don’t know enough about the motivations of the people involved in the Templar trials. Everyone assumes Philip did what he did in order to get their wealth, but if I remember correctly, he could never hold on to it by law anyway. This new book, if what I have read about it in these two or three little articles is any indication, will NOT resolve the mystery surrounding the Templar trial, but will instead only deepen it.
You and I both know that confessions were tortured out of people then by both the state and the Catholic Church. Lets not act like the Vatican was some innocent bystander in this. The Church especially then could have went to the extreme to protect its own order.
“You and I both know that confessions were tortured out of people then by both the state and the Catholic Church. Lets not act like the Vatican was some innocent bystander in this.”
You don’t know the facts:
1) The first confession came BEFORE the arrest and BEFORE any torture.
2) The Templars were arrested and tortured without the pope being informed and he was not happy about it - as I already mentioned.
3) This happened in France, not in the Vatican, and at that time there was effectively no Vatican. The pope was living in Avignon.
“The Church especially then could have went to the extreme to protect its own order.”
Again, you don’t know the facts.
1) The Templars were a sovereign order of knighthood. I am sure some popes felt like the Templars were the Church’s “own” but that is a gross over-simplification to say the least.
2) In case you missed it, I already mentioned that King Philip had already kidnapped and abused a previous pope - Boniface VIII. The idea that a new pope, living in fear of French arms (and residing across the river from French territory unlike the kidnapped pope who had been far away near Rome and WAS STILL KIDNAPPED anyway) could go “to the extreme to protect its own order” when that pope already believed the order was guilty simply makes no sense.
Far too often people who know little about the history of the Church ascribe almost omnipotent status to the Church during the Middle Ages. If the pope or the Church was omnipotent then there would have been no kidnapping of Boniface VIII by King Philip.
Yes he held them and yes they were suppressed. That’s why religion and the world is in such a mess.
“Even THESE bishops?”
Was that necessary? There are RINO’s in the Republican party just as there are CINO’s in the Vatican. If Americans suffer betrayal by our own citizens, then realize Jesus suffered His own betrayal first—from Judas, and from ALL who commit sin.
The original Knights loved and honored the Sacraments. They were first holy in nature and then military by trade. Today’s un- (or rather), anti-Catholic Masons are wholly against the Sacraments and all Teachings of Christ. They wax of military heroics past, but refuse the discipline of our True Champion, the One Who Dies on the Cross for our shameful sin. What might shock our modern public is not the a possible restoration of the Order, but what the Pope may command the order to do such as be non-military, non-violent, and ever devoted to the Sacraments. The challenge may be so high: obedience, celibacy, poverty, loyalty to the Pope, devotion to the Sacraments (like daily Reconciliation, Daily Mass, etc.) that the anti-Catholic Masons may play yet another word game to falsely trap restored Knights into legal battle and real persecution. The restored Knights will be murdered again in the same manner that Jesus told St Peter that he was going to Rome to be Crucified again.
What uncovered books can help support your premise?
My suggestion is,
A Issue a formal apology.
B. Start a Recruiting Drive
Here’s one to be counted...
York Rite Freemason