Posted on 10/11/2007 11:19:24 AM PDT by icwhatudo
Conservatives often complain that republicans back down, that they have no spine, that they wilt when faced with criticism of "but its for the children!" Will the fight over the S-CHIP expansion veto be a repeat?
Many media outlets and left wing blogs are crowing about all the supposed falsehoods contained in my original post.
Before you go running for the hills, tail between your legs, can we at least take a look at each and every point made in that post? You know, the one that "attacks a 12 year old boy".
I keep hearing how all my info was wrong, how it was all debunked as lies etc etc etc... but really there was only 1 major thing i was off on- the family paid a lower tuition amount at the exclusive Park school due to financial aid. This does not change the fact they are still paying for private school, just at a lower rate, while others are paying for their kids health care costs.
So that's what I was off on. Lets see what I got right:
"Graeme Frost, who gave the democrat rebuttal to George Bush’s reasons for vetoing the SCHIP Bill, is a middle school student at the exclusive$20,000 per year Park School in Baltimore, MD.
100% true
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"Graeme was in a severe car accident three years ago, and received care paid for by the government program known as SCHIP-(State Children's Health Insurance Program)"
100% true
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"I was in a coma for a week and couldn't eat or stand up or even talk. My sister was even worse," Graeme wrote. "My parents work really hard and always make sure my sister and I have everything we need, but we can't afford private health insurance."
Direct quote from article
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"His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school prior to the accident"
100% true and now we learn that all 4 attended private school. After the accident, Gemma began attending a new special needs school paid for by the state.
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meaning the family was able to come up with nearly $40,000 per year for tuition for these 2 grade schoolers.
Dealt with above.
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Confirmation both attended Park found here using edit-"find on this page"-Gemma. It will take you to an article in the schools newspaper about a fundraiser for Gemma class of 16, and Graeme class of 13.
100% true
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"Here are photos of the school's 44,000 square foot Wyman Arts Center: two galleries, an outdoor ampitheater, Meyerhoff Theater, Macks-Fidler Black Box Theater, practice rooms, rehearsal space, and ceramics, 3-D sculpture, woodworking, jewelry, painting, photography, digital graphics studios, recording studio, and keyboard lab.
100% true
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In a Baltimore Sun article the family claims to be raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year."
100% true
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"Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work."
Direct quote from article. Somewhat misleading to say he can't get it through work, when he's self employed.
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"What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company "Frostworks",since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992
True, under the name Frostworks to 1999/2000 and then, after working as an architectural designer and manager of a small custom cabinet shop, under a new company name. The Baltimore Sun confirms he is presently self employed.
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..."so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as "bookkeeper and operations management" prior to her recent 2007 hire at the "medical publishing firm".
100% true
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As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.
Unconfirmed, hence the "apparently". Its safe to say she would not have switched jobs away from one that offered health insurance to one that doesn't.
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His company, Frostworks, is located at **** E BALTIMORE ST.
Which it was, and is still is according to Baltimore.com's business search for cabinet makers. Changing the name you use for your company does not change your business location.
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"A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999."
100% true
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"The buildings owner is listed as DIVERSIFIED INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CENTER, LLC whose mailing address is listed as *** S Collington Ave which is the Frost's home."
100% true
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"The commercial property he owns is also listed as the business address for another company called Reillys Designs"
100% true
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Which leads to the question of whether rental income is included in the above mentioned salary total.
100% true-The fact they receive rental income has been confirmed but the Baltimore Sun did not ask if it was included in their claimed 45-50k combined "income" (though they did ask for access to a tax return and the Frosts refused.)
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"The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at *** S Collington Ave is unknown but *** S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF.
100% true
This has also been a source of many claims of mistaken information. While other blogs or radio shows may have made the mistake of saying all homes in the area sell for 400-500k- or that the Frosts paid 485k for their home, my information was correct. I compared the home to a recently sold SMALLER home only a few doors down that was also an end unit. Citing tax assessments of 260k (which are always lower than market value) is disingenuous. A fellow freeper early in the thread posted a zillow estimate of approximately 350k and Michelle Malkin's infamous "stalking tour" led her to say that estimates of 500k were too high. So much for the idea that the blogger mob were not interested in getting their facts straight. I'm sure all the media trucks Time magazine says are parked near the home will also be called stalkers-right?
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"A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job"
100% true. The home remodeling has been confirmed by the Frosts in the Sun article.
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with granite counter tops
FALSE-The kitchen had concrete counters rather than granite. The left is really milking this one and its mention in this AP article was the only example they used from my entire post. This is such a silly point and was simply an observation about the photo the Sun used to show the family... but since even USA Today is making a big deal out of it, sigh, lets take a look:
"Concrete countertops are a custom crafted material for high end use and are often specified by designers or architects.
Consumers, in some cases think of concrete as being a cheaper alternative to other available countertop surfaces. Concrete countertops should be sold (or bought) based on being a beautiful, custom, handmade, relatively unique product. Customers going in thinking the countertops will be low budget items will quickly find out otherwise.
Concrete countertops range from $65 to $125 per square foot.
Granite countertops range from $60-$120 per square foot.
So the funny thing is, according to these links, concrete counters are actually MORE expensive than granite so I don't quite get the left's glee on that one.
I'm sure Olberman will have something to say like "Just when you think this story could not get any lower, we are now reduced to arguing cost differences of granite vs concrete countertops". Yep, it is silly. Maybe the AP and USA Today should stop harping on it and instead focus on whether families of higher means than than the Frosts really need tax payer financed health care.
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and glass front cabinets
100% true
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One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home
100% true
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send kids to exclusive private schools,
100% true
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purchase commercial property
100% true
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and run your own business
100% true
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maybe money can be found for other things...
My opinion.
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maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.
My opinion. On second look, a bit snippy but the central point is true. There have to be jobs out there with healthplans for someone with:
"over twenty years experience in architectural construction. Fine architectural woodworking/ cabinetmaking Residential and commercial construction. Industrial systems manufacturing, pipefitting, electrical control. Architectural design, CAD 2D & 3D modeling & rendering (Vectorworks/Renderworks)Construction management(All types)."
I know we all would like to be our own boss but sometimes you just have to settle for a good job with health insurance.
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Not being a reporter and doing this all in about 3 hours using Google can bring me all the criticism in the world, but to say my info is all lies or has been disproved is not correct. As is the assertion that I somehow "attacked" a 12 year old.
BTW, I hope the Sun spent a little more than 3 hours researching their story.
"I am incredibly thankful," said Frost, who works full time for a medical publishing firm.
Baltimore Sun September 27
vs
"...while Bonnie works part time for a medical publishing firm."
Baltimore Sun October 11, 2007
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I installed high-end stainless steel cabinets in my former home and was disappointed at the endless problems with water spots, rusted joints around the doors, and overall coldness, both in winter, when they retained cold, in the sounds they emitted, and in "feeling."
Phony poor people!
Thanks for the update.
In defense of the grandparents, the child care center they funded appears to be a memorial to their daughter. The wording of the web page is strange: it says "a living memorial", so it isn't 100% clear whether that means the daughter is still alive, but I take it to mean that it is a place for living children in memory of a deceased daughter.
When you figure what the average grandparents of means spend on their daughter and her children, the idea that they would instead give these funds to this church, which already has the real estate available, to supplement the tuitions at this nursery school does not offend me. I think it's a generous and useful way to remember their daugher.
Especially if they are also helping their son with their other grandchildren's tuitions, I just don't see why the grandparents should be targeted here, so much as their son, who has planned poorly for his family and now that his children have special needs, feels entitled to lash out at the president over not getting even more aid than has already been generously supplied by so many other sources.
istillluvwhatudo.
Excellent work, sir, you have singlehandedly shown how fast and loose the so-called guardians of the free press are with facts, and how they jump when their liberal masters tell them to.
My kid went to school on Saturday for sports and activities. Sunday, too.
Shouldn't that be "Yass'm"?
I understood your point about the cabinetry and had the same thought: the guy probably built them himself and already had the equipment. He may even have had some scrap materials.
As for farting in the forum, the Viking kitty did that. Eww — fish kibble!
If she did then it would be her choice and a clear reflection of their priorities. The facts revealed to date clearly show ample opportunities and resources to secure health insurance for the entire family. It just isn't a priority to them and why would it be when they can get some other sucker to pay for it?
Great job, icwhatudo! Clear, concise, well researched and well formatted. Simply centuries ahead of present day journalism.
The Democrats have held up a no-need case that did get welfare, as somehow heart wrenching, to argue for increased welfare. That's the story.
I commend the grandparents.
What I am getting at is that the family, had/has more resources than they are letting on.
Frankly, I think they are gaming the system. I feel they are tax cheats, somewhere.
In my previously life as a chef I would say yes. Commercial kitchens are virtually 100% SS. Cleaning is very easy. Infact you don't need any fancy cleaner, regardless of what SS appliance makers say. Plain old water with clorox in it is all you need.
Now, there are some disadvantages unless they are purpose built. Just a straight sheet of stainless won't work. Cutting boards slide all over. What you have done is get cutting boards made to how you want them for where you want them and have SS 'pegs' welded to the countertop and holes drilled in the cutting boards to match them. They won't go anywhere.
Plus, if you really want to have fun, do from the countertops down stainless, get a tile floor, and have a couple drains put in the floor. Then you can clean the kitchen with a hose!
It's all about what your time is worth. If you spend 200 hours in the shop building cabinets for yourself instead of a paying customer it means you want a new kitchen more than health insurance for your family. The profit from one typical kitchen job would be about enough for one year's insurance. The Frosts decided that comfort/status was worth more to them than security/health.
I am foursquare behind the liberty to make that choice. Just don't whine that others are unwilling to pay for the things you don't care that much about.
ping to post 124
What is the relevance of that? That, in combination with their choice not to have health insurance, shows how low the health and welfare of their children is on their priority list.
That may sound like a cold indictment but asking the taxpayers to feel sorry for them and then hand over their money is even colder. Were they waiting for a government program to buy them child seats?
greed, questions about the accident only diverts attention from the main question of whether the Halseys needed SCHIP and whether they misrepresented their income and assets when applying for it.
Agreed, questions about the accident only diverts attention from the main question of whether the Halseys needed SCHIP and whether they misrepresented their income and assets when applying for it.
Somebody needs to get in Hillary’s face and ask her why SHE is exploiting the Frost family, when they are such a perfect example of what’s wrong with ‘Hillary care’?
Evidently yours did not.
I agree with you. There only relevant question WRT to these people is should folks who chose not to get the insurance they clearly could have afforded be subsidized when they lose their gamble?
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