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Look Again At The Frost Facts...And Don't Back Down
freeper research, Baltimore Sun, Others ^ | 10-11-07 | icwhatudo

Posted on 10/11/2007 11:19:24 AM PDT by icwhatudo

Conservatives often complain that republicans back down, that they have no spine, that they wilt when faced with criticism of "but its for the children!" Will the fight over the S-CHIP expansion veto be a repeat?

Many media outlets and left wing blogs are crowing about all the supposed falsehoods contained in my original post.

Before you go running for the hills, tail between your legs, can we at least take a look at each and every point made in that post? You know, the one that "attacks a 12 year old boy".

I keep hearing how all my info was wrong, how it was all debunked as lies etc etc etc... but really there was only 1 major thing i was off on- the family paid a lower tuition amount at the exclusive Park school due to financial aid. This does not change the fact they are still paying for private school, just at a lower rate, while others are paying for their kids health care costs.

So that's what I was off on. Lets see what I got right:

"Graeme Frost, who gave the democrat rebuttal to George Bush’s reasons for vetoing the SCHIP Bill, is a middle school student at the exclusive$20,000 per year Park School in Baltimore, MD.

100% true

---------------------------

"Graeme was in a severe car accident three years ago, and received care paid for by the government program known as SCHIP-(State Children's Health Insurance Program)"

100% true

---------------------------

"I was in a coma for a week and couldn't eat or stand up or even talk. My sister was even worse," Graeme wrote. "My parents work really hard and always make sure my sister and I have everything we need, but we can't afford private health insurance."

Direct quote from article

---------------------------

"His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school prior to the accident"

100% true and now we learn that all 4 attended private school. After the accident, Gemma began attending a new special needs school paid for by the state.

---------------------------

meaning the family was able to come up with nearly $40,000 per year for tuition for these 2 grade schoolers.

Dealt with above.

---------------------------

Confirmation both attended Park found here using edit-"find on this page"-Gemma. It will take you to an article in the schools newspaper about a fundraiser for Gemma class of 16, and Graeme class of 13.

100% true

---------------------------

"Here are photos of the school's 44,000 square foot Wyman Arts Center: two galleries, an outdoor ampitheater, Meyerhoff Theater, Macks-Fidler Black Box Theater, practice rooms, rehearsal space, and ceramics, 3-D sculpture, woodworking, jewelry, painting, photography, digital graphics studios, recording studio, and keyboard lab.

100% true

---------------------------

In a Baltimore Sun article the family claims to be raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year."

100% true

---------------------------

"Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work."

Direct quote from article. Somewhat misleading to say he can't get it through work, when he's self employed.

---------------------------

"What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company "Frostworks",since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992

True, under the name Frostworks to 1999/2000 and then, after working as an architectural designer and manager of a small custom cabinet shop, under a new company name. The Baltimore Sun confirms he is presently self employed.

---------------------------

..."so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as "bookkeeper and operations management" prior to her recent 2007 hire at the "medical publishing firm".

100% true

---------------------------

As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.

Unconfirmed, hence the "apparently". Its safe to say she would not have switched jobs away from one that offered health insurance to one that doesn't.

---------------------------

His company, Frostworks, is located at **** E BALTIMORE ST.

Which it was, and is still is according to Baltimore.com's business search for cabinet makers. Changing the name you use for your company does not change your business location.

---------------------------

"A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999."

100% true

---------------------------

"The buildings owner is listed as DIVERSIFIED INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CENTER, LLC whose mailing address is listed as *** S Collington Ave which is the Frost's home."

100% true

---------------------------

"The commercial property he owns is also listed as the business address for another company called Reillys Designs"

100% true

---------------------------

Which leads to the question of whether rental income is included in the above mentioned salary total.

100% true-The fact they receive rental income has been confirmed but the Baltimore Sun did not ask if it was included in their claimed 45-50k combined "income" (though they did ask for access to a tax return and the Frosts refused.)

---------------------------

"The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at *** S Collington Ave is unknown but *** S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF.

100% true

This has also been a source of many claims of mistaken information. While other blogs or radio shows may have made the mistake of saying all homes in the area sell for 400-500k- or that the Frosts paid 485k for their home, my information was correct. I compared the home to a recently sold SMALLER home only a few doors down that was also an end unit. Citing tax assessments of 260k (which are always lower than market value) is disingenuous. A fellow freeper early in the thread posted a zillow estimate of approximately 350k and Michelle Malkin's infamous "stalking tour" led her to say that estimates of 500k were too high. So much for the idea that the blogger mob were not interested in getting their facts straight. I'm sure all the media trucks Time magazine says are parked near the home will also be called stalkers-right?

---------------------------

"A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job"

100% true. The home remodeling has been confirmed by the Frosts in the Sun article.

---------------------------

with granite counter tops

FALSE-The kitchen had concrete counters rather than granite. The left is really milking this one and its mention in this AP article was the only example they used from my entire post. This is such a silly point and was simply an observation about the photo the Sun used to show the family... but since even USA Today is making a big deal out of it, sigh, lets take a look:

"Concrete countertops are a custom crafted material for high end use and are often specified by designers or architects.

Consumers, in some cases think of concrete as being a cheaper alternative to other available countertop surfaces. Concrete countertops should be sold (or bought) based on being a beautiful, custom, handmade, relatively unique product. Customers going in thinking the countertops will be low budget items will quickly find out otherwise.

Concrete countertops range from $65 to $125 per square foot.

Granite countertops range from $60-$120 per square foot.

So the funny thing is, according to these links, concrete counters are actually MORE expensive than granite so I don't quite get the left's glee on that one.

I'm sure Olberman will have something to say like "Just when you think this story could not get any lower, we are now reduced to arguing cost differences of granite vs concrete countertops". Yep, it is silly. Maybe the AP and USA Today should stop harping on it and instead focus on whether families of higher means than than the Frosts really need tax payer financed health care.

---------------------------

and glass front cabinets

100% true

---------------------------

One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home

100% true

---------------------------

send kids to exclusive private schools,

100% true

---------------------------

purchase commercial property

100% true

---------------------------

and run your own business

100% true

---------------------------

maybe money can be found for other things...

My opinion.

---------------------------

maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.

My opinion. On second look, a bit snippy but the central point is true. There have to be jobs out there with healthplans for someone with:

"over twenty years experience in architectural construction. Fine architectural woodworking/ cabinetmaking Residential and commercial construction. Industrial systems manufacturing, pipefitting, electrical control. Architectural design, CAD 2D & 3D modeling & rendering (Vectorworks/Renderworks)Construction management(All types)."

I know we all would like to be our own boss but sometimes you just have to settle for a good job with health insurance.

--------------------------

Not being a reporter and doing this all in about 3 hours using Google can bring me all the criticism in the world, but to say my info is all lies or has been disproved is not correct. As is the assertion that I somehow "attacked" a 12 year old.

BTW, I hope the Sun spent a little more than 3 hours researching their story.

"I am incredibly thankful," said Frost, who works full time for a medical publishing firm.
Baltimore Sun September 27

vs

"...while Bonnie works part time for a medical publishing firm."
Baltimore Sun October 11, 2007

----------------------


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: frost; graemefrost; justthefactsmaam; schip; standandfight
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
I think the original story said the mother was driving the “evil” gas guzzling SUV, not the father.
21 posted on 10/11/2007 11:54:25 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: icwhatudo
Concrete follow-up: Concrete's Changing Colors, By: Keith Pandolfi, This Old House magazine, July/August 2007. "... Expect to pay $75 to $150 per square foot, about on par with granite. ..."
22 posted on 10/11/2007 11:54:40 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: icwhatudo
Does Free Republic have an annual Buckhead trophy? If it does, then you are in the lead for the 2007 one.
23 posted on 10/11/2007 11:56:56 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (May the heirs of Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski rise up again to defend Europe.)
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To: icwhatudo

Excellent posting...

I was just thinking....I pay about $500 a month toward my 401k. Sooo....with all this big government talk, I should just stop paying that and demand that my pension is paid by our most wonderful govmint. /s


24 posted on 10/11/2007 12:00:39 PM PDT by trappedinnj
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To: icwhatudo
"A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job"

I'd just avoid the entire remolding thing if I were you. A decent carpenter with the right shop equipment can build his own kitchen cabinets at 10th or less than the cost of store bought cabinets. This guy is a carpenter and has the shop tools so it's easily evening / weekend work for the cost of some lumber and hardware. Same with the concrete counters. They don't have to be store bought. A good DYIer can pour them himself.

No doubt with the real estate they own, this family's assets are much larger than a 45k yearly taxable income would typically indicate, but the kitchen remolding job means nothing in that regard.

25 posted on 10/11/2007 12:03:06 PM PDT by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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To: Domandred
“Since this was a single car accident liability insurance would not have covered it, only comprehensive/collision would have.”

It depends on the state you live in. In Michigan under the “no fault” law all (100%) of the medical costs would be paid, plus lost wages are covered.

It doesn’t matter who is at fault.

26 posted on 10/11/2007 12:05:37 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: icwhatudo
Look, you've done a public service here.

At a minimum you have raised the issue of the propriety of folks with significant net worth getting public assistance.

My brother has significantly less net worth than this family of 6 and yet he not only pays for his own health insurance but he, like so many others, has to contribute to the health insurance of others with higher net worths. It is the height of absurdity.

You, my friend, have nothing to apologize for or be defensive about.

Hopefully some good will come out of this kerfluffle like asset tests and the requirement for those taking public money to supply the public with balance sheets and income statements.

Having said that I wish nothing but the best for the injured children in their efforts at recovery. It really isn't very hard to separate the children from the politics if one has half a brain, which of course rules out that half of America prone to use children to advance their politics.

27 posted on 10/11/2007 12:06:35 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: icwhatudo
So the funny thing is, according to these links, concrete counters are actually MORE expensive than granite

Absolutely correct. Granite began fading as a preference for many up-scalers who were putting in new kitchens when it became more publicized that granite can actually be pourous enough to hold bacteria. Over the past three or four years people have been opting for sealed concrete and other faux granite look-alike materials. And yeah, it's often a little more expenensive.

In any event, that's a nice kitchen the Frosts decided to put in rather than buy their own health insurance.

I keep you and your family in my prayers.

You're a lot more compassionate than I am. As far as I'm concerned, for helping the Democrats in their agenda to turn America into a Euro-style, secular-socialist welfare state the Frosts can all drop dead. Screw them.

28 posted on 10/11/2007 12:11:41 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Phantom Lord
Did the Frost's fail to have insurance on their car as they are legally required to have?

PIP in Maryland has a low minimum requirement, about 2500.00 and I think I read the maximium amount of PIP is 20,000. Nowhere near enough to pay for the injuries these poor kids suffered.

But insurance is an interesting point. I'm sure Mr Frost has insured his home, his auto and his investment property but he chose not to purchase health insurance for his children which he could have at a reasonable rate.

Perhaps the public should kick in for his property insurance as well?

29 posted on 10/11/2007 12:13:46 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: icwhatudo
By the way, from another recent thread:

Mr. Frost, also 26, is known as Halsey. He owns Frostworks, a woodworking and furniture-design studio in Baltimore. His mother, Randy Frost, is a quilt artist. His father is the deputy director of design and construction for the City University of New York in Manhattan. The bridegroom’s late grandfather Frederick G. Frost Jr. was an architect responsible for several public buildings in New York, including Martin Luther King High School in Manhattan.

Obviously, the entire greedy extended Frost family would rather reach into the wallets of complete strangers than help each other out. This is clearly not an impoverished family. They should be ashamed of themselves.

30 posted on 10/11/2007 12:22:42 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: icwhatudo
"I hope your business improves to the point where you will not need the S-CHIP program anymore."

So, you ARE trying to deny them access to S-CHIP! /S

Nice job icwhatudo. With the MSM little more than a shill for the left, it's nice that a citizen takes the time to pick up their slack.

31 posted on 10/11/2007 12:23:36 PM PDT by ETCS
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To: icwhatudo

Good investigative work, the kind that newspapers and journalists USE to do


32 posted on 10/11/2007 12:29:04 PM PDT by italianquaker (Is there anything Ron Paul doesn't blame the USA for?)
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To: icwhatudo
Well Sir,

The only reason you are taking heat from the liberals is because they were caught in a lie. One they can’t defend or spin their way out of!

Their voting base is mostly elite morons with a guilt complex and illiterate poor on public assistance.

They can’t sell this family to most of their base as being poor. It just wont work and they have to lash out at someone.

The more they try to spin, the more people will search the facts. The liberals are going to lose on this one.

33 posted on 10/11/2007 12:34:41 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: icwhatudo; kristinn

Ping to new Frost thread.


34 posted on 10/11/2007 12:36:17 PM PDT by palmer
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To: Beagle8U
“mother was driving”
Yeah. I think you’re right. I read an awful lotta stuff since yesterday, and don’t remember for sure. I’d like to see the accident report regarding black ice.
35 posted on 10/11/2007 12:38:35 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: icwhatudo

Good work!

“Why is the family home listed as the “office” of the Limited Liability Corporation that owns the commercial property?”

I set up an LLC to buy a small commercial property and did the same thing. Since the LLC is formed before you buy (or close on purchase of) the property, you need your home address, not the building address that you are buying, as the ‘office’ of the registering agent of the LLC.

“Why, if the family is so quick to announce how much they earn each year in every interview they do, does the family refuse the Baltimore Sun’s request to examine their tax return? “

LOL. These guys should be Republicans!


36 posted on 10/11/2007 12:39:05 PM PDT by WOSG (I just wish freepers would bash Democrats as much as they bash Republicans)
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To: icwhatudo

If he lists his home as his business address, then I’m sure he takes a business (Schedule C) offset for the space used.

There are so many things that businesses can take off the top as expenses (utilities, labor, rent, mileage, equipment, supplies, etc.) that farmers regularly are seen in large homes, driving large, new vehicles and also reporting zero income.

Every family should declare itself a business. :>)


37 posted on 10/11/2007 12:40:35 PM PDT by xzins (If you will just agree to the murdering of your children, then we can win the presidency)
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To: icwhatudo
Bttt.

5.56mm

38 posted on 10/11/2007 12:42:02 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: icwhatudo
Sierra Hotel


39 posted on 10/11/2007 12:44:20 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: Lancey Howard

Let’s be serious. They are staunch dims, proud and arrogant about every handout received. Shame or even gratitude for handouts is not on the table. They are entitled to it because it’s not your money so be prepared to part with more of it. Thank HER that SHE trusts you with some small part of your earnings and assets.


40 posted on 10/11/2007 12:47:16 PM PDT by businessprofessor
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