Posted on 10/27/2007 2:25:06 AM PDT by ebmiller
There are many reasons a conservative should not vote for Rudy in the Republican primary but I want to emphasize one reason that has not been stated enough on most of the websites I frequent. He will depress the conservative vote, which will impact most other Republicans running for office. That means any close race that a Republican might have won because of the conservative vote, will go down to defeat because enough conservatives stayed home and did not vote. It is a fact that many voters will not come out to the polls if they feel that there is no real choice. When you give the conservative a choice of a liberal New York senator or a liberal New York former mayor for President you will get many conservatives staying home. Whether you think that is good or bad, that is just reality. So say goodbye to closing the gap in the US Senate and could lead to a veto proof majority for the Democrats. Say goodbye to any chance on taking back the House of Representatives. Rudy is a recipe for disaster!
Well, I cite the polls, but I have gut, too, and this gut tells me Fred is the only viable candidate.
"In a Fred/Hitlery race I suspect she will pull three hundred plus electoral votes. Just my feeling."
I guarantee she will get that and more with Rudy as the nominee. Rudy cannot and will not carry a single state that John Kerry won in 2004. There's no rodent-leaning Presidential state that has him ahead. He can't even carry NY. He's going to have to carry the states that Dubya and Fred would have to carry, and with the 3rd party Conservative, those states go bye-bye.
"Rudy is the MSM’s worst nightmare. A social liberal who promises conservative government. And he’s mean. This guy took on the Mafia knowing they could kill him at any time."
How is he their worst nightmare ? A northeastern liberal will personal problems galore. They'll relish ripping into him with gusto. The pics of him in drag, his abhorrant social positions, 3 marriages (including one to a cousin), damaged relationship with his kids. It's funny, for a guy unafraid of the Sicilian Mafia, he was quaking in his boots at the sounds of the pro-abort and pro-gay Mafia. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
"I see him as a potential Teddy Roosevelt. Independent, smart, and someone terrorists won’t be able to play with. He’ll hit them if they hit us. Hillary never would."
TR was a megalomaniacal nut. Had he not made the promise not to run in 1908, it would've been he, and not his cousin Franklin, who would've come close to setting up a dictatorship Presidency, probably well into the 1920s. TR was also a big government guy to the core. He, just like Rudy, will cause a split in the party, just like what happened in 1912, which gave us one of the worst Presidents in the 20th century, Woodrow Wilson.
“There are many reasons a conservative should not vote for Rudy in the Republican primary but I want to emphasize one reason that has not been stated enough on most of the websites I frequent. He will depress the conservative vote, which will impact most other Republicans running for office.”
The author must not read Free Republic then... we have been saying this for months! Ignore the Base, elect the beast... Ignore the Base... elect the beast... Ignore the Base... elect the beast. Hey, it worked for a headache medicine! ;-)
LLS
I don’t like irrational/delutional toddlers. Toddlers think that they can cause reality by holding their breath and throwing tantrums. Toddlers think in very self-centered “it’s all my way or no way” thought patterns.
OK, we disagree. That’s baseball, or whatever...If Fred is the nominee I will certainly support him, what concerns me is that so many on this site seem to have a very immature view of politics...if my candidate doesn’t get the nomination I will stay home or vote third party.
We are dealing with the Clintons here. Everybody on the Right needs to grow up.
Make sure you vote in the primary... end of Rooty.
It's not immature looking at the context of the situation. You've got 3 RINOs (Rudy McRomney) that were annointed by the media, and now they're promoting a 4th (Huckabee), all the while collectively disregarding Fred. I mean, we've witnessed what liberal RINO governance has done at the state level over the past 20 years, to the point that several states have been placed permanently out of reach of GOP Presidential candidates. Show me a state where the party has grown where they've led ? If Rudy were prepared to be this Conservative that he never was during his entire career (save perhaps for law & order, but even that was tempered with the fact that he was a gun-grabber and was a massive squish on illegals), we'd have to be completely fooling ourselves to believe it (ditto with Romney, a chronic and pathological liar and flipflopper). The only thing we get electing RINOs is a lot of heartburn and diminishing returns. His election would be a pyrrhic victory, because it would still be a victory for liberalism... a thoroughly discredited ideology. It's too bad that aside from Fred, and Duncan Hunter, we had some legitimate bonafide Conservatives in the race instead of this Felliniesque sideshow/trainwreck/battle of the RINO ego all-stars we've been watching for this past year+.
"We are dealing with the Clintons here. Everybody on the Right needs to grow up."
We need to stop viewing the Clintoons as the single enemy. It's liberalism and all that it entails that is the enemy, and we need to recognize that. The rodents already have gone to the dark side, so why in the hell are we in such a rush to join them and sell out everything we know to believe is right by supporting candidates that are indistinguishable from them policy-wise in everything but the letter of the alphabet that comes after their name ? I'm a Conservative first. The day the Republican party decides it wants to become the 2nd Socialist party, it's dead to me, and it deserves to be buried.
Not sure I am making myself clear, my fault. I certainly want a conservative nominee. What I fear is a movement to a third party. Like Nader in OO, it could cost us dearly.
Sure liberalism is crazy. It IS a mental illness in some cases, it is at least magical thinking; but please, we MUST keep the Clinton’s particular brand of liberalism out. People around them die. These are thugs.
Of course if Thompson wins and puts RG on the ticket that would be OK also. In any case I’m voting for the Party nominee because I don’t have a death wish and i do have an IQ that surpasses the moron level.
No, I do understand what you’re saying. The problem is what are we gaining removing all standards of a candidate’s morality and ideology by nominating a liberal to face Hillary simply to “stop her” ? Frankly, if we’re going to elect a liberal President, just let the rodents have it. A Republican enacting a liberal agenda would be worse than anything a President Hillary could do - since with Hillary there, we can actively oppose her as a united front — with Rudy, it would just be endless internecine battles while the rodents snicker and clean up at the next election. We saw that happen every single time with these RINO Governors in umpteen states weakening the state parties to the point of moribundity (NJ) or total death (MA). Look how bad it has gotten with the GOP having to go up against our current President on shamnesty !
Rudy gets 20% to 25% of the Rep vote {”moderates”] with the rest of the candidates taking the remainder. Rudy won’t get enough votes in the primaries to take the nomination on the first ballot. It will be a brokered convention, which Rudy can’t win.
I guess I just don’t see Rudy the same way you do. He did a great job cleaning up crime in NYC while the liberals called him a fascist. He’s a capitalist. And no matter what you read, no way is Wade going to be overturned; and if it is, the great majority of state legislatures will make it legal.
I see Rudy G., will all his minuses far better than Hillary, Obama, Edwards. The Dems will centainly nominate one of those three, include, maybe Gore.
Listen Freepers
My point was not POTUS! It’s the congress! If Rudy is nominated, we will take a big hit in the Senate and the House! Those of you who are Rudy supporters please defend your man and how he will not hurt are chances in congress!
He did clean up crime and he made the place safe again. But he also made it safe for the liberals that had made a disaster area out of the city, so they're free to filthy up their nest again. But the issues Rudy had to cover as Mayor and the stands he took were antithetical to the Conservative base. Being a Mayor is not the same as President, nor even Governor. He also wasn't able to do anything to promote and expand good-government Republicanism to other offices under his aegis. The GOP is almost non-existent on the NY City Council (only 3 seats). It's not just good enough we have Conservatives, we have to have people that will either hold a preexisting majority or expand a minority. He simply didn't. In fact, only one candidate did that, and it was unusual for him, because as a Senator and not a member of the elected leadership at that, he kept our seats in the GOP column for the first time ever at reelection, and that was Fred.
"And no matter what you read, no way is Wade going to be overturned; and if it is, the great majority of state legislatures will make it legal."
Roe isn't even Constitutional. We get 1 or 2 more judges and it's finished. Will that stamp out all abortion ? Nope. But it will stamp out an odious and morally abhorrant decision every bit as appalling as Dred Scott.
"I see Rudy G., will all his minuses far better than Hillary, Obama, Edwards. The Dems will centainly nominate one of those three, include, maybe Gore."
I don't from a strategic standpoint. I see 4 years of massive internal party strife -- take a good look at the model of Ah-nold out in CA, he has been a farking disaster, and he doesn't give a damn about Conservatism or much helping the state GOP -- and they're intending to deliver their votes in a manner with which 1 man = 1 vote doesn't apply. A San Francisco liberal's vote is going to be worth many more times the vote of an Orange County Conservative's in how the delegates are awarded. This is the kind of crap that will DESTROY us worse than anything the rodent stooges could do to us from without. Ultimately, it means a strengthened and greatly expanded rodent majority (remember the numbers they had in the '60s and '70s ?), and all but assures the rodents winning the WH in 2012. We can't afford that.
What we are seeing here is a fight over the soul of the Republican party. In the past, all serious Republican candidates may have had different governing strategies, but they all toed the line on social issues important to the religious right. Now we are seeing in Giuliani a strong candidate who leans left on social issues. If he is nominated, and wins, the social conservatives, for whom abortion, guns and gays are paramount issues, will have been shown that they have no voice in national politics. This is a tough pill to swallow, and for many people on this forum, more distressing than a second Clinton presidency.
You are overreacting. There may be a fight for the soul of the Republican Party but that fight, if lost by conservatives, can be won in another four years. Just because we nominate a social liberal this time does not rule out a social conservative next time. It’s not zero/sum.
Listen Freepers
My point was not POTUS. It’s the Congress. If Rudy is nominated, we will take a big hit in the Senate and the House! Those of you who are Rudy supporters please defend your man and how he will not hurt our chances in Congress.
Perhaps. If Giuliani is nominated in the primaries and loses to Clinton in the general election, you can bet that the Republican party will not ignore their socially conservative base in the future.
However, if Giuliani wins the presidency, what lesson will be learned from this? What will be learned from a Giuliani victory is that issues that are dearly important to the religious right can be ignored without fear of losing the election. Furthermore, these issues might actually be liabilities for Republicans in that they turn off more moderate voters. The powers that be may interpret a Giuliani victory as saying that for every socially conservative voter who stayed home, they gained socially liberal voters.
For the record, as of this moment I'm predicting that Giuliani wins the Republican nomination but loses the election to Hillary Clinton. However, a lot can change and in politics, things usually do.
Eighty percent of the media will be against us...factor it in and deal with it.
The MSM is an organ of the DNC.
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