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1 posted on 10/29/2007 8:33:10 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: BurbankKarl

Neither the ranchers nor the farmers who rely on Klamath Falls water is mentioned in this article.


2 posted on 10/29/2007 8:36:10 PM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: BurbankKarl

Tear them down. California doesn’t need electricity.


3 posted on 10/29/2007 8:36:23 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler ("A person's a person no matter how small." -Dr. Seuss)
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To: B4Ranch; ElkGroveDan; hedgetrimmer; Iconoclast2; Jeff Head; marsh2; sergeantdave; tubebender; ...

Klamath ping.


6 posted on 10/29/2007 8:40:55 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: BurbankKarl

So their solution to rolling blackouts and high electricity prices is more of the same obstructionism toward the industry. That makes a hell of a lot of sense. If these greenies want to go live in the sticks like Ted Kazinsky, who the hell is stopping them? Don’t drag us along on the ride to hell.


8 posted on 10/29/2007 8:43:13 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Oh, the huge manatee!!!)
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To: BurbankKarl

Explosives engineers will blow up portions of 50-year-old levees above Upper Klamath Lake on Tuesday, hammering a swift river into a slow marshland for the benefit of a fish whose survival in part once halted irrigation to downstream farms.

The federally protected sucker depends on such wetlands, and the action represents a replumbing of a key section of the embattled federal water project in the agriculture-intense Klamath Basin.

“It’s a large, complicated project with extremely high expectations,” said Curt Mullis, field supervisor with the Klamath Falls office of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. “We’re hopeful and optimistic.”

The levees were built in the 1950s to convert rich bottomland soils into farmland and to channel the Williamson River directly into the Upper Klamath Lake. For half a century, farmers grew crops such as wheat, barley and alfalfa on great swaths of the drained land.

The levees’ destruction will come after 12 years of negotiations between interests that often have been at odds, including The Nature Conservancy, U.S. Fish and Wildlife, the Klamath Tribes and the electric utility PacifiCorp, which operates dams on the Klamath River.

http://www.oregonlive.com/metro/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/119362651630280.xml&coll=7


9 posted on 10/29/2007 8:45:26 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: BurbankKarl

A snapshot into the future of wind power.

We ain’t going to get to use it.


10 posted on 10/29/2007 8:50:06 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: BurbankKarl
"The Energy Commission has a responsibility not only to provide reliable energy supplies, but to provide for the environment," said Chris Tooker, an energy policy analyst for the California Energy Commission. "It takes that balancing mandate seriously. The whole reason we are involved in the Klamath issue is to help educate the participants."

No, Mr. Tooker, it's your job to make sure Californians have sufficient supply of electricity for their needs. It's the job of the California Fish and Wildlife Department to deal with issues related to environmental effects on wildlife. Just because you're a frustrated zoology major doesn't give you the right to abuse your authority!

15 posted on 10/29/2007 8:57:11 PM PDT by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one BYJ movie at a time! (http://www.byj.co.kr))
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To: BurbankKarl

This case should prove instructive.


18 posted on 10/29/2007 9:05:34 PM PDT by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: BurbankKarl

more lunatic fringe environmental wackery.

We need power, and we need water. But who is stupid enough to give up those necessities in favor of a fish?


21 posted on 10/29/2007 9:12:26 PM PDT by o_zarkman44 (No Bull in 08!)
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To: BurbankKarl
improvements to meet a federal mandate to provide salmon a way to reach hundreds of miles of spawning habitat blocked for the past century.

The salmon have co-existed with the dams for a hundred years but now all of a sudden they can't. Smells like BS to me.

29 posted on 10/29/2007 9:27:22 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: BurbankKarl; fish hawk

These dams have been in place far far longer then the decline of fish numbers...


31 posted on 10/29/2007 9:39:07 PM PDT by tubebender (My weight is perfect for my height... which varies...)
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To: Jeff Head

Wussup here, Jeff. I smelled salmon even before I clicked on this.


33 posted on 10/29/2007 9:45:31 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: BurbankKarl

One more reason why global warming is bunk.


39 posted on 10/30/2007 4:29:49 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Dems want to rob from the poor to give to the rich)
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To: BurbankKarl

Oil is bad. Dams are bad. Bill Clinton is out there suggesting people put dirt on their roofs and plant grass to help GW. These people are either complete morons or actively working for the destruction of our society one piece at a time. If we don’t have revival it won’t matter who we put in office or what the policies are. Honestly,, this nation could tip either way. The future of this nation does not even depend upon sinners repenting! It depends upon the church repenting! When the church repents of it’s sin and falls on it’s face weeping for forgiveness, it will then have the power and authority to weep for this nation! We have replaced politics for repentance! Politics is great! Every Christian should be involved! That alone will never change this nation! Why do we think that some how our sacrifice to maintain freedom and liberty is going to be so less than those who laid the foundation?? Our country has gone through a lot,, it has always been a church repenting, God forgiving and a revival moving that has saved it! Our nation is filled to overflowing with sinners and sin! Pornography, drunkenness, pride, infidelity, lying, cheating and stealing,,, and that is just the church! And then we are so shocked at congress and Hollywood! I will end with the following. We think we are powerless to change the nation. God was fed up with Israel. God told Moses to step aside because he was going to wipe out every man in Israel,, sick of their complaining and sin after all He had done,, He told Moses He would make Moses a ruler of a new nation! But Moses told God ‘No!” Moses changed God’s mind! Moses stood in the gap for Israel and God repented!! God is still looking for a man Ezekiel 22:30, “I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before Me in the gap on behalf of the land so that I would not have to destroy it, but I found none.”


40 posted on 10/30/2007 4:42:15 AM PDT by freemike
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To: BurbankKarl; SierraWasp; Jeff Head; steelie; fish hawk; tubebender; iconoclast

So what are these green idiots going to do when we have drought springs/summers/falls like this year?

There will be no water to release for flows if there are no dams during a dry spring, summer and fall. If there are no normal flow or water releases from dams, the salmon can’t make it upstream. Hell they will not be able to enter the river due to the sand bars at the mouth of the Klamath.

Which is why Coho were never native salmon on the Klamath. They were hatchery fish from Oregon not some damn sacred native fish/gods. Coho need high water flows each fall and good flows throughout the next year as they slowly mature and go downstream. They need about 1 year of regular river flows to get downstream after they are hatched.

Last but not least, this is why I no longer belong to Cal Trout, Trout Unlimited or Oregon Trout. These elitist sobs want no dams, no farmers, no ranchers, no lumber people or anyone making an honest living off the land. Yet they eat, use electricity, drive suvs and use wood products like the rest of us. We are seeing the same elitism with the striper fishers of the Delta.


45 posted on 10/30/2007 8:16:08 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (("Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!"- Jim Robinson, Sept, 30, 2007))
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To: BurbankKarl

bump


71 posted on 10/30/2007 12:56:35 PM PDT by Tribune7 (Dems want to rob from the poor to give to the rich)
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To: BurbankKarl

Karl, thank you very much for posting this and giving those of us who fought this in ‘01 more GovernMental EnvironMental near terminal FATIGUE!!! (grin)


73 posted on 10/30/2007 1:30:39 PM PDT by SierraWasp (GovernMental EnvironMentalism is making a monstrous mockery of the proper role of CA government!!!)
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To: BurbankKarl

http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/384431.html

The County’s editorial on the dams in the Sacramento Bee:
(It’s ok, I have permission of an author to post it.)

Behind the dams on the Klamath River
Jim Cook and Marcia H. Armstrong -

Published 12:00 am PDT Tuesday, September 18, 2007
Story appeared in EDITORIALS section, Page B7

There is a clamor on the Klamath River for the removal of dams. As representatives of the region that encompasses all three California dams on this important river and the people who will be most affected by dam removal, we have serious doubts that this is the best environmental strategy, or even the best solution to enhance our fishery resource, the driver of this policy choice.

Unfortunately, this has become one of those issues in which reasoned discussion and scientific due diligence has given way to the power of important political interests, ideological stances and romanticized visions of run of the river results.

This debate has intensified, and is now coming to a head, as a result of a request by PacifiCorp for a new federal license to continue to operate its California and Oregon hydro-electric facilities on the Klamath River. Despite the fact that PacifiCorp has agreed to invest more than $300 million to provide significantly greater protection for Coho salmon and other fishery resources, opponents are nonetheless insisting on dam removal.

Yet, there is a very important reason why PacifiCorp has made it absolutely clear that it will not bear any responsibility for taking out dams. They have no clear idea as to what is in the tons and tons of sludge and sediment that have been collecting at the bottom of these structures for more than 50 years or how to remove the material safely. Quite simply, they are scared stiff by the prospect of so much legal liability.

As a result, if the dams are to be removed, it will only be if some other entity is created to buy them and take them out. If the utility that owns them is so fearful that removal could potentially unleash an environmental disaster, it naturally makes those of us who live here very apprehensive. Given these legitimate concerns, which no definitive studies have yet to allay, it is particularly frustrating that so little focus and creative energy have been expended on looking at other options to help promote our fishery resource.

No community in Northern California has done more to lead in Coho recovery than Siskiyou County. We are the home to two pilot projects that the Department of Fish and Game believes will be a model for the state in working collaboratively and with a minimum of bureaucracy to promote Coho recovery.

And certainly more must be done on the Klamath, including the installation of more fish ladders and ensuring that those upstream are prudent in their use of water for irrigation and agricultural purpose. There is much evidence to suggest that these, and other similar measures, would substantially improve Coho conditions without the fear of an environmental catastrophe that dam removal poses.

Moreover, scant attention has been paid to the other major environmental consideration — in an era of global warming consciousness, substantial amounts of clean, cheap hydro power is being precipitously removed and potentially replaced by coal-fired power. This is hardly a plus for our planet or our ratepayers.

Finally, there needs to be some appreciation of the cumulative impacts of environmental regulations on communities such as Siskiyou County. The natural resource industry that historically employed our citizens and gave us the tax base to provide services to our people is now a shadow of its former self. Totally apart from the environmental considerations, dam removal will, among other things, further harm our tax base, reduce property values, dramatically curtail world-class white water rafting recreational opportunities, and, unless fully mitigated, negatively impact the quality of life in our community.

We understand that we are swimming against the current on this issue. Yet, we hope that this explanation of the perspective of those whose day-to-day life would be most affected promotes a more rigorous and thoughtful public discourse over the most prudent approach to returning the Klamath to health.

About the writer:

* Jim Cook is chairman of the Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors. Marcia H. Armstrong is a member of the Board of Supervisors. Other supervisors who signed on as authors of this commentary are La Vada Erickson, Michael Kobseff and Bill Overman. (unanimous)


74 posted on 10/30/2007 2:59:55 PM PDT by marsh2
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To: BurbankKarl
That's fine. The folks in Kalifornicatia can watch TV by candle light. Oh, the same source that powers the lights also powers the TV? Well! That isn't fair!

WHIIIINNNNNNE!

89 posted on 12/08/2007 6:25:15 PM PST by Redleg Duke ("All gave some, and some gave all!")
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To: BurbankKarl

bttt


91 posted on 01/16/2008 8:59:18 AM PST by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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